Clemens on 60 Minutes

[Texsox]

All this is just too sad. It makes me sick thinking about what the next generation of baseball fans are growing up with. But my generation grew up with free agency and rent a player and we survived. I guess these kids will also.

[Controlled Chaos]

Congressman Burton seems to be acting like Clemens' best friend.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Controlled Chaos

[CWSGuy406]

I can't believe more people aren't into it.

 

Because deep down, I don't think people really care. The media is trying to blow this up into something bigger than it actually is.

[Controlled Chaos]

Because deep down, I don't think people really care. The media is trying to blow this up into something bigger than it actually is.

Some consider him the greatest pitcher in history. If his records are tainted, I think it's as big as it gets.

 

On a side note...It seems the Republicans are grilling McNamee and the Democrats are grilling Clemens.

[StrangeSox]

Davis really sounds like a moron by harping on the time frame. McNamee has explained several times that he may have been mistaken on the dates. That's not really the important part of those comments.

[CWSGuy406]

Anyways, I should try to speak from more of a personal perspective -- I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, but I'm not sure whether my opinion is what could be considered the 'majority' opinion. But... I don't get the moral outrage that people seem to think has gone on here; the hyperbolic statements like "this has given baseball a black eye." Please -- I tend to think a black eye would indicate people being 'turned off' by the game, that the steroids stuff would somehow decrease interest in the game when in reality -- or at least to my knowledge -- that hasn't happened. The game is still popular, arguably moreso because of some of the great things that took place during the 1990s.

 

This shouldn't be taken as me condoning steroid use, mind you. Far from it. I just don't feel a whole lot of disdain for the players whose names are mentioned in these lists (there are some exceptions to this). Part of the reason -- I think -- is because I'm not sure I would've acted differently if I was placed in the exact same situation. I think that "don't throw stones while living in a glass house" statement is semi-appropriate here.

[Reddy]

yeah i'm bored by this.... i'll just read whatever summary comes of this.

[Controlled Chaos]

Here were some of the things Burton said...

 

Burton attacks McNamee's credibility

As we said in the last entry, it seemed that Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) has sided with Roger Clemens. He pointed out several interviews from 2006 and 2007 in which Brian McNamee was quoted as saying he did not provide Clemens or Andy Pettitte with HGH or steroids. Burton, several times in a row, said, "Is that a lie?" and McNamee responded, "Yes."

 

"Oh, it's another one," Burton said sarcastically. Then the Congressman from Indiana railed against McNamee and the hearings as a whole.

 

"This is really disgusting. You're hear as a sworn witness. You're hear to tell the truth. You're here under oath, and yet we have lie after lie after lie after lie. ... I don't' know what to believe. I know one thing I don't believe, and that's you."

 

Burton then fell in line with Clemens's team about how the legendary pitcher will never be able to recover his reputation.

 

"Roger Clemens is a baseball, he's a titan in baseball, and you with all these lies which are not true, are destroying his reputation. Now, how does he get his reputation back?" Burton allowed that "if these allegations aren't true", then it woudl be damaging.

 

Just now, under questioning from Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.), one of Clemens's attorneys made what was seen as an unusual request to speak to the committee. Rep. Waxman said that the committee's rules allowed Clemens to consult with his counsel, but that counsel could not direct the committee directly.

 

 

[Controlled Chaos]

Whoever the congressman is now is pretty much just letting Clemens tell his story of his hard upbringing.

 

Mr Clay is who it was. He pretty much just gave Clemens a platform to tell a whole sad story about his hard work and how he had no car...etc...and his sister in law that was murdered or whatever. Not sure how any of it was relevant except to help Clemens...

Edited February 13, 2008 by Controlled Chaos

[DrunkBomber]

Whoever the congressman is now is pretty much just letting Clemens tell his story of his hard upbringing.

 

Mr Clay is who it was. He pretty much just gave Clemens a platform to tell a whole sad story about his hard work and how he had no car...etc...and his sister in law that was murdered or whatever. Not sure how any of it was relevant except to help Clemens...

That next lady wasnt so nice. I almost feel sorry for him. Even though it appears he is lying its gotta suck to go through all of this just to keep your name cleared. You know his reputation must mean everything to him for him to risk perjury where if he had used it and admitted it he wouldnt be in any legal trouble.

[Balta1701]

That next lady wasnt so nice. I almost feel sorry for him. Even though it appears he is lying its gotta suck to go through all of this just to keep your name cleared. You know his reputation must mean everything to him for him to risk perjury where if he had used it and admitted it he wouldnt be in any legal trouble.

If he didn't want to risk his reputation...he could simply have kept the needles out of his ass.

[Texsox]

If he didn't want to risk his reputation...he could simply have kept the needles out of his ass.

 

Not to mix metaphors, but that needle is a double edged sword. Perhaps, it may have enhanced his reputation as well.

[Middle Buffalo]

Because deep down, I don't think people really care. The media is trying to blow this up into something bigger than it actually is.

People should care. Not everyone needs to care about the way modern ballplayers have messed with the records. Not everyone cares about HR records, etc. However, if you think of the history of baseball and consider that prior to 1990 or so, very few players had prolific HR numbers. The top guys would typically hit 45 homers max. in a given season, and they were paid accordingly. With the advent of the steroid era, more and more players were reaching high HR numbers. They were then paid as HR hitters. As the HR numbers went up and more players were hitting 40+ HRs, they were demanding more money. The end result is that ticket prices went up to support the increased payrolls, which came about as a result of increased numbers, which were the result of illegal performance enhancing drugs. So the loser in all this is the fan. Fans who care about the history of baseball and grew up memorizing statistics, and casual fans who just like to go to the park and watch the game were both impacted by the pervasiveness of steroids and HGH in baseball.

 

Regarding the Mitchell Report, I can't understand why someone like Clemens (who sure seems guilty- though benefits by going up against a less than credible witness) doesn't admit to using HGH. He could say that he used it to recover from assorted injuries and only used it sparingly. He could also say that he read reports that told of the benefits of HGH, and that when he used the substance, it was under the watchful eye of a trainer who was employed by MLB. He could also say that when he used, HGH was not illegal (I think that's the case, but could be wrong). It seems like it wouldn't put into question the last 8 or 9 years of his career. I'm not saying that it would totally clear his name, but it would look much better to say he used only to recover from specific injuries - not to cheat.

[Kyyle23]

Based on everything presented thus far, how does this look for McNamee and Clemens? Who looks like the liar at this point?

[Controlled Chaos]

Based on everything presented thus far, how does this look for McNamee and Clemens? Who looks like the liar at this point?

It's absolutely crazy how every Republican I have seen not only sides with Clemens, but lets him use up their time telling stories to make himself look good.

[Controlled Chaos]

It's absolutely crazy how every Republican I have seen not only sides with Clemens, but lets him use up their time telling stories to make himself look good.

and here goes another one....Roger please explain how hard you worked to keep in shape

Edited February 13, 2008 by Controlled Chaos

[StrangeSox]

Based on everything presented thus far, how does this look for McNamee and Clemens? Who looks like the liar at this point?

 

Everyone but Roger is backing up McNamee it seems.

[StrangeSox]

It's absolutely crazy how every Republican I have seen not only sides with Clemens, but lets him use up their time telling stories to make himself look good.

 

I really don't understand how this ended up breaking down party lines.

[Middle Buffalo]

It's funny that Clemens was admonished for meeting with his nanny (the one who may have testified that he was at Canseco's party in 1998) a few days ago, but Clemens has been taking meetings with Representatives for the past few weeks leading up to the hearing.

 

Another weird thing is that the lawyers for the witnesses are forbidden to speak. There was a long testimony by the Rep. from Mass. about the Army doctor reading the MRI reports and conluding that a mass on Clemens' butt was consistent with Winstrol injections, but Clemens' lawyer was not allowed to clarify anything for the panel. It's kind of a stretch to assume that Clemens will be able to represent himself well against what I assume is a panel Reps who were educated as lawyers.

 

I'm not defending Clemens. It just seems that this process of deposing a witness is somewhat unfair.

[Controlled Chaos]

I really don't understand how this ended up breaking down party lines.

Me either....but it is so right down the line it's sick.

[Texsox]

I really don't understand how this ended up breaking down party lines.

 

That seems strange. Could it be just a coincidence?

[StrangeSox]

It's funny that Clemens was admonished for meeting with his nanny (the one who may have testified that he was at Canseco's party in 1998) a few days ago, but Clemens has been taking meetings with Representatives for the past few weeks leading up to the hearing.

 

.

 

He was admonished for flying her in and meeting with her before giving up her information to investigators.

[Controlled Chaos]

That seems strange. Could it be just a coincidence?

I don't know...but if you didn't see who was talking and only heard it...you could identify which party was talking just by their questions and comments.

[Texsox]

I don't know...but if you didn't see who was talking and only heard it...you could identify which party was talking just by their questions and comments.

 

Sounds like they had a strategy before going in, which may be common to avoid overlapping, it may even have been coordinated between the aprties, but that seems really far fetched.

 

From a philosophy point of view that may make sense, by siding with Clemens they are siding with MLB and by siding with McN they are siding with ?? Ideas anyone?

[RockRaines]

Roger is caught up in trying to stay consistent with his initial denial and is lying more and more to support it. He actually acts a lot like a child caught in a lie that tries to spin everything to support the already obvious lie.

 

Mcnamee says it best; he implicated 3 people, 2 have come forward and confirmed he was truthful, the other is denying everything even to the point of calling his best friend and his best friends wife liars. Come on roger, its one thing to lie on 60 minutes, nows the time to tell the truth.