Floyd vs. Danks

[Marky Mark]

Consider with this question that both will be starters to begin '08. I'm just curious because that seems to be the topic of much talk. I'm feeling more like people will say Danks but I may be wrong. Let's see.

[flavum]

I think 2008 will be Floyd's breakout season. Assuming about 32 starts, 13-15 wins and 190 innings would be a very good year.

 

To me, Danks is the 5th starter. He has to throw more strikes, and get guys out faster. Pitches way too deep into counts. If that continues into this season, I can see a Jack Egbert or Lance Broadway replace him fairly quickly.

[striker]

I thought the good outings Floyd had were better than the good outings Danks had. Danks flattened out later in the season. Floyd actually pitched better at the end of the season.

[Metz]

As much as I would like to vote for both because they are two pitchers that I will cheer for evenly this season, but my vote went to Floyd just cause I thought last season a lot of people were not giving him a chance and I think he didnt do so bad besides he tended to give up homers alot. I think it would be great to see Floyd just come out great, and I hope Danks and him make a great end of the rotation duo for the team this season

[Kyyle23]

The thread title looks like the HBO Saturday Night Fight of the Week

[ScottyDo]

In a fistfight? Danks, cuz he's scrappy.

[SoxWS05]

Well if Floyd pitches against the Tigers every game he might win 20 games. He dominated them 3 times last season.

[CanOfCorn]

I'm going with Danks...Floyd may have better stuff...but Danks is coming into his second full season, he's been aroun d the block and he's got one full year of learning from Coop and Burls. I think his bulldog mentality will get him a few wins this year.

[Harry Chappas]

Danks will have to outperform Floyd, Sisco, Massett and Aardesma to make the team this year. Wheather it is fair or not I am not sure but those guys being out of options and the fact that Danks tappered off last year puts that whole group in a competition along with Wasserman and Boone Logan.

 

The aforementioned out of options guys will be given a better chance to make the team than those guys that have options.

[The Ginger Kid]

how cool would it be if both had breakout seasons?

[hi8is]

super cool like free burritos on a tuesday after it has been raining for about 29 days only when the sun hadn't been shining in the sky because the clouds where far too big and held drops of puppy dogs and cats within the dream of a virgin sheep who just happened to be located somewhere in the facility of Jordan because there are a whole bunch of people there on their knees who really really want it to begin like the black voyage of an icelandic warlord from the viking area.

 

now thats f-in cool!

[hi8is]

super cool like free burritos on a tuesday after it has been raining for about 29 days only when the sun hadn't been shining in the sky because the clouds where far too big and held drops of puppy dogs and cats within the dream of a virgin sheep who just happened to be located somewhere in the facility of Jordan because there are a whole bunch of people there on their knees who really really want it to begin like the black voyage of an icelandic warlord from the viking area.

 

now thats f-in cool!

 

oh... and just try reading that sentence out loud in one breath. its fun and is possible.

[The Ginger Kid]

oh... and just try reading that sentence out loud in one breath. its fun and is possible.

I think I'll stage a reading at open mic night

[southsider2k5]

I am going with Floyd. For whatever reason, Ozzie or Coop, they seemed to have success with a similar pitcher in Jon Garland who had zero confidence and a plus arm after he had failed under a different leadership. I think they will be able to get through to Gavin.

[shipps]

I think Danks will have the better year.At every level he has struggled to start but would figure it out and be pretty dominant after about 9 months of growing pains.I dont think Gavin will ever be more than a ten win pitcher.

[WilliamTell]

I'm hoping both will be successful. Maybe it'll come down to who's the #5 starter, that way they're matched up against worse pitchers. Pretty close race though.

[Balta1701]

I'm hoping both will be successful. Maybe it'll come down to who's the #5 starter, that way they're matched up against worse pitchers. Pretty close race though.

After the first week and first rainout that won't matter much. #5's will be facing off against Johan, #4's will be facing off against Bonderman.

[santo=dorf]

Well if Floyd pitches against the Tigers every game he might win 20 games. He dominated them 3 times last season.

That's only if Timo is the DH batting third, Hessman is in for Guillen, Sheff and Maggs are on the bench, and Vance Wilson is in for I-Roid.

 

Gavin Floyd sucks. He's out of options, so he shouldn't be viewed as a piece of the future. He should be kept on a very short leash.

[witesoxfan]

That's only if Timo is the DH batting third, Hessman is in for Guillen, Sheff and Maggs are on the bench, and Vance Wilson is in for I-Roid.

 

Gavin Floyd sucks. He's out of options, so he shouldn't be viewed as a piece of the future. He should be kept on a very short leash.

 

Gavin Floyd put up an ERA of 4.04 in his final 55.2 IP last year, which includes both August and September. And the 5.11 ERA he put up in August, along with every other peripheral across the board improving, would be more than adequate as a back of the rotation starter.

 

And, for technicality purposes, Timo never DH'ed against the White Sox; atleast not when Gavin Floyd was starting. Guillen started the final 3 games (the games Floyd pitched well in), IRod played in 2 of the 3, Maggs played in 1 and pinch hit in another, and Granderson and Polanco led off all 3. Don't act like he played against the AAA version of the Tigers; that's an injustice to Floyd, regardless of how you feel about him. Along with that, he also held a pretty good Indians lineup in check too.

 

Point blank, I'm glad you are not in a position to determine who and who does not suck. He's 25, put up a pretty damn good year at AAA last year, and actually lasted past 140 innings (176.2 to be exact, with 6 games coming out of the bullpen), something John Danks hasn't proven he can do yet.

 

At this point in time, I view Floyd as a superior MLB pitcher to John Danks. I see no reason to think otherwise.

[CanOfCorn]

Gavin Floyd put up an ERA of 4.04 in his final 55.2 IP last year, which includes both August and September. And the 5.11 ERA he put up in August, along with every other peripheral across the board improving, would be more than adequate as a back of the rotation starter.

 

And, for technicality purposes, Timo never DH'ed against the White Sox; atleast not when Gavin Floyd was starting. Guillen started the final 3 games (the games Floyd pitched well in), IRod played in 2 of the 3, Maggs played in 1 and pinch hit in another, and Granderson and Polanco led off all 3. Don't act like he played against the AAA version of the Tigers; that's an injustice to Floyd, regardless of how you feel about him. Along with that, he also held a pretty good Indians lineup in check too.

 

Point blank, I'm glad you are not in a position to determine who and who does not suck. He's 25, put up a pretty damn good year at AAA last year, and actually lasted past 140 innings (176.2 to be exact, with 6 games coming out of the bullpen), something John Danks hasn't proven he can do yet.

 

At this point in time, I view Floyd as a superior MLB pitcher to John Danks. I see no reason to think otherwise.

 

I agree with everything you said until the lasting past 140 innings. Um...John Danks has exactly 1 year in the majors. I think you can give him a break.

[RME JICO]

Gavin Floyd put up an ERA of 4.04 in his final 55.2 IP last year, which includes both August and September. And the 5.11 ERA he put up in August, along with every other peripheral across the board improving, would be more than adequate as a back of the rotation starter.

 

And, for technicality purposes, Timo never DH'ed against the White Sox; atleast not when Gavin Floyd was starting. Guillen started the final 3 games (the games Floyd pitched well in), IRod played in 2 of the 3, Maggs played in 1 and pinch hit in another, and Granderson and Polanco led off all 3. Don't act like he played against the AAA version of the Tigers; that's an injustice to Floyd, regardless of how you feel about him. Along with that, he also held a pretty good Indians lineup in check too.

 

Point blank, I'm glad you are not in a position to determine who and who does not suck. He's 25, put up a pretty damn good year at AAA last year, and actually lasted past 140 innings (176.2 to be exact, with 6 games coming out of the bullpen), something John Danks hasn't proven he can do yet.

 

At this point in time, I view Floyd as a superior MLB pitcher to John Danks. I see no reason to think otherwise.

Technically he is 24. He turns 25 on the 27th.

Edited January 16, 2008 by RME JICO

[santo=dorf]

Gavin Floyd put up an ERA of 4.04 in his final 55.2 IP last year, which includes both August and September. And the 5.11 ERA he put up in August, along with every other peripheral across the board improving, would be more than adequate as a back of the rotation starter.

 

And, for technicality purposes, Timo never DH'ed against the White Sox; atleast not when Gavin Floyd was starting. Guillen started the final 3 games (the games Floyd pitched well in), IRod played in 2 of the 3, Maggs played in 1 and pinch hit in another, and Granderson and Polanco led off all 3. Don't act like he played against the AAA version of the Tigers; that's an injustice to Floyd, regardless of how you feel about him. Along with that, he also held a pretty good Indians lineup in check too.

 

Point blank, I'm glad you are not in a position to determine who and who does not suck. He's 25, put up a pretty damn good year at AAA last year, and actually lasted past 140 innings (176.2 to be exact, with 6 games coming out of the bullpen), something John Danks hasn't proven he can do yet.

 

At this point in time, I view Floyd as a superior MLB pitcher to John Danks. I see no reason to think otherwise.

First off, your wording of "final 55.2 IP" is a joke because he threw 70 innings last year. You basically just tossed out two of his horses*** starts and a crappy appearance in mop up duty at Yankee staduim.

 

The first time he face Detroit he was pounded because Sheff, Magglio, Guillen and Polanco were all in the lineup. Granderson surprisingly went 0-5

 

Next start, his only win: Sheff was not in the lineup and Sean Casey started out in the 3rd spot, later replaced by Craig Monroe. Mike Hessmanplayed at first and Mike Rabelo was in for I-Roid.

 

3rd start against them: Maggs and Sheff were not in the lineup. Ryan Raburn was in the third spot. Timo Perez played in the OF and Marcus Thames was the DH batting 8th.

 

4th Start against them: Timo Perez was batting third. Maggs and Sheff were not in the lineup.

 

If we're going to conveniently throw out bad starts and look at September stats, Jerry Owens should be our leadoff hitter playing CF next season.

Edited January 16, 2008 by santo=dorf

[witesoxfan]

I agree with everything you said until the lasting past 140 innings. Um...John Danks has exactly 1 year in the majors. I think you can give him a break.

 

John Danks threw 140 innings in the minors in 2006 too. That's two straight years of 140 innings with no increase at all. 160 innings would have been a little better; being able to show that he can handle a bit of a workload would be really nice. I have yet to see that, but I'm not about to write him off either.

 

I like Danks, don't get me wrong, and I do think he has a very bright future in the bigs; all I really think is that he is not nearly as ready for the majors as people tend to think he is.

 

First off, your wording of "final 55.2 IP" is a joke because he threw 70 innings last year. You basically just tossed out two of his horses*** starts and a crappy appearance in mop up duty at Yankee staduim.

 

The first time he face Detroit he was pounded because Sheff, Magglio, Guillen and Polanco were all in the lineup. Granderson surprisingly went 0-5

 

Next start, his only win: Sheff was not in the lineup and Sean Casey started out in the 3rd spot, later replaced by Craig Monroe. Mike Hessmanplayed at first and Mike Rabelo was in for I-Roid.

 

3rd start against them: Maggs and Sheff were not in the lineup. Ryan Raburn was in the third spot. Timo Perez played in the OF and Marcus Thames was the DH batting 8th.

 

4th Start against them: Timo Perez was batting third. Maggs and Sheff were not in the lineup.

 

If we're going to conveniently throw out bad starts and look at September stats, Jerry Owens should be our leadoff hitter playing CF next season.

 

It's not a f***ing joke; it's called a pitcher showing improvement as the year goes on. If you want to say I'm cherry picking stats, by all means do it, because quite frankly I am. It doesn't change the fact that he got better as the year went on. He's not the 4.04 ERA pitcher he was the final two months of the year, but he quite obviously proved that he's not the 5 homers a game guy he was in his first 15 innings of the year. How else is the untrained eye supposed to be able to tell if a pitcher is improving?

 

And, while that 55.2 IP is a small sample size, it's not nearly as small as the first 14 innings he got rocked in early on which inflated his ERA to the point it was last season. Because of 14 terrible innings, his ERA increased more than a point. I'm not about to suggest he's going to be a world beater by any means, but to suggest he "sucks" because of whatever the hell evidence you used..a weak Detroit lineup, whatever the hell that means. BTW, thanks for conveniently leaving out the fact that Ryan Raburn put up .304/.340/.507/.847 in 150 PAs last year; you mention him like he's some scrub, when in reality he was actually a pretty damn good hitter last year. And Timo Perez hit .389. He's a bad hitter for his career, but he wasn't bad last year.

 

All I said was that Gavin Floyd didn't face the AAA Tigers; you have yet to disprove me. He also faced the Cleveland Indians starting lineup and shut them down pretty well, and you didn't even bring that up. Gavin Floyd is not a stud, but he was a damn good pitcher last year between AAA and the majors outside of his first 14 innings in the bigs. As you said, that's two starts and some mopup duty. Are you seriously going to tell me a pitcher sucks because 8% of what he did all year was absolutely terrible? That's absolute horses***, because I can do the exact same thing with John Danks or any number of pitchers.

[knightni]

super cool like free burritos on a tuesday after it has been raining for about 29 days only when the sun hadn't been shining in the sky because the clouds where far too big and held drops of puppy dogs and cats within the dream of a virgin sheep who just happened to be located somewhere in the facility of Jordan because there are a whole bunch of people there on their knees who really really want it to begin like the black voyage of an icelandic warlord from the viking area.

 

now thats f-in cool!

 

Post more.

[santo=dorf]

Why should I disprove your claim of facing him facing the AAA Tigers? I never made that comment. I simply said Gavin pitches well when certain career minor leaguers or junk like Timo (I don't care how he did, he is a bad player are in Detroit's lineup.

 

You threw out his first two starts which were horrible, and a crappy outing at Yankee stadium. I know he's shown improvement since those times but he was so bad in the beginning it would be impossible for him to get worse. Is 70 innings really a big enough sample size? How about the 178.2 innings in his career with a 6.30 ERA, and 1.64 WHIP.

 

Nothing should be given to this guy with the exception of a chance at the rotation next year. A few late season starts against Timo and the Tigers isn't going to convince me otherwise