Octavio Dotel signs with Sox

[flavum]

I agree.

 

But I also think that Adam Russell breaks camp with the sox. he performed well last year and I look for him to impress again this year.

 

Adam Russell has very little chance of making the Sox out of spring training. He only pitched at AA last year, and had his struggles there. He'll go to Charlotte and hopefully have a nice season there.

 

The bullpen seems set to me: Wassermann, Thornton, Logan, MacDougal, Dotel, Linebrink, Jenks

 

[WCSox]

I've very much against giving away MacDougal.

 

+1 MacDougal's disasterous 2007 season was a career-worst. He was very solid in '05 and '06 and deserves another year. Plus, you can never have too many veteran arms in the 'pen. Having MacDougal throw middle relief with Thornton, Linebrink and Dotel as setup men, and Jenks makes for a pretty strong 'pen.

 

Despite dealing Jon, I really like what Kenny's done over the past six months. I think that the Sox have a legitimate shot this year.

 

[sircaffey]

To be honest, the only pitcher I am banking on for us to be at least decent (ERA less then 4.5, not get knocked around every other time out) is Vazquez. Buehrle, maybe, but he has to show me he has made some changes from late last season. We really need one Floyd and/or Danks to step up big time.

 

At this point, I'd MUCH, MUCH, MUCH rather have Garland over Cabrera.

 

Very much agree. I'd feel a hell of a lot better with a solidified rotation rather than a good 2 hole hitter especially now that Swisher looks like he could end up hitting there.

[striker]

I found this interesting piece from a Pirates blog about the signing and some other stuff;

 

-P- The White Sox have signed Octavio Dotel to a two-year, $11 million deal. Dotel is 34 and he's not nearly as good as he was when he and Billy Wagner were dominating the late innings for the Astros. And more importantly, I have no idea what planet Kenny Williams' head is on. His big moves this offseason have been to deal Jon Garland for Orlando Cabrera, trade his entire farm system for Nick Swisher, and drop $30 million on a pair of aging relievers (Dotel and Scott Linebrink). If the Sox were in the NL Central, Williams' plan to sneak into the playoffs by crapping all over the Sox' future might just work, but they aren't. They're in one of the best divisions in baseball, and the Sox won 72 games last year - signing Alex Rodriguez wouldn't have gotten them into the playoffs. Acquiring Dotel isn't the worst move that's been made this offseason, but it doesn't make any sense, and it's not going to make the Sox better in 2009.

 

UPDATE: It occurs to me that the "crapping all over the Sox' future" might be a little unfair. Christina Kahrl has argued very passionately (subscription only) that acquiring Swisher was a future-oriented move for the Sox, but I don't agree. The Sox gave up a high-upside arm in Faustino de los Santos and another good one in Gio Gonzalez for Swisher. While Swisher is signed to a very favorable contract, I don't see his skill set - lots of strikeouts, lots of walks, low batting average, power - as one that's likely to age all that well, particularly in a few years when Swisher slows down and has to move to first or DH. If he hits .255, he's an asset, but if he dips to .235, he's a problem. And in the meantime, if the Sox don't have anything in their farm system, how are they going to contend against the Indians or White Sox before 2011 or so?

 

I think what alot of people miss from the Swisher trade is that the Sox got a proven young power hitter for three unproven prospects, two of which were pitchers. With Thome, Kornerko and Dye all getting older, KW had to find some one to potentially replace their power. We have some decent pitching depth with Danks, Floyd, Egbert, Broadway, Buehrle and Vazquez all under our control for the next few years, but before this trade Fields was the only young power we had. Plus our team has sucked the past couple years when Thome went down. Swisher's presence cushions the blow.

[YASNY]

Actually, according to Merkin, I'm wrong, and the Sox will have to remove someone from the 40 man to sign Dotel, which is part of the holdup. But right now there's only 39 guys listed @ Whitesox.com on the 40 man, so the remaining person must be Ramirez unless I'm missing something badly.

 

This may clear that 40 man roster question up. From the Sox webpage

 

CHICAGO -- Octavio Dotel became the latest addition in what has amounted to Ken Williams' offseason overhaul of the White Sox roster, with the right-handed reliever agreeing to a two-year, $11 million deal on Tuesday. Dotel will earn $5 million in 2008 and $6 million in 2009.

Along with the Dotel signing, the White Sox announced the official agreement reached with infielder/outfielder Alexei Ramirez. The free-agent signing of the Cuban exile originally was reported in late December.

 

Ramirez, 26, receives a $500,000 signing bonus and will earn $950,000 in 2008. Ramirez is set to receive $1.1 million in each season from 2009-11, completing his four-year, $4.75 million agreement. Ramirez posted a .334 average with 73 home runs and 328 RBIs over 521 games for Pinar del Rio in the Cuban League from 2001-07. He has the ability to play second base, shortstop and center field.

 

Dotel, 34, posted a 2-1 record and 4.11 ERA in 33 relief appearances between Kansas City and Atlanta in 2007. Since 1957, he ranks fifth among Major League relief pitchers with an average of 11.7 strikeouts per nine innings. Brad Lidge (12.6), Rob Dibble (12.17), Francisco Rodriguez (11.97) and Billy Wagner (11.84) are the only relievers who rank higher. Dotel also has limited opposing hitters to a .218 average over nine seasons.

 

To make room for Dotel and Ramirez on the 40-man roster, the White Sox designated right-handed reliever David Aardsma for assignment. Williams has added Dotel, Ramirez, Scott Linebrink, Nick Swisher, Orlando Cabrera and Carlos Quentin during a busy offseason.

 

 

[Steve9347]

Am I the only one who thinks Bobby Jenks + Uribe and maybe a Lance Broadway (or at most Gavin Floyd) could net Erik Bedard? With Dotel/Linebrink/MacDougal already don't we all think its worth it to get the type of talent Bedard is?? I think this would instantly make us contenders in the AL Central and the Orioles would be nuts to not bite on that package that gives them a young SP from the Baltimore area (if it was in fact Floyd), a SS they desperately need (even if he does like Krispy Kreme a bit too much), and a young closer in his arb years who just might be the best at what he does.

 

Am I insane?

Edited January 22, 2008 by Steve9347

[greg775]

Although I like the addition I'm wondering about that contract. If Kenny is willing to pay that much for a guy who's barely played recently then why not spend a lot for a proven, healthy commodity (Hunter, Rowand, etc)?

 

Proves money doesn't matter.

This guy is a huge health concern. But at least we have some new bullpen bodies.

I wonder if he'll make it out of spring training health wise.

Wouldn't that be something if the Sox have patched together a better bullpen?

[Balta1701]

Am I the only one who thinks Bobby Jenks + Uribe and maybe a Lance Broadway (or at most Gavin Floyd) could net Erik Bedard? With Dotel/Linebrink/MacDougal already don't we all think its worth it to get the type of talent Bedard is?? I think this would instantly make us contenders in the AL Central and the Orioles would be nuts to not bite on that package that gives them a young SP from the Baltimore area (if it was in fact Floyd), a SS they desperately need (even if he does like Krispy Kreme a bit too much), and a young closer in his arb years who just might be the best at what he does.

 

Am I insane?

If Baltimore thought they had a shot at competing next year they might be up for that. But here's the problem. He's out right now for this year, but Baltimore has a young closer in Chris Ray who may be back and pitching again in 2009. And if they're committing to a multi year rebuilding process, Jenks would only hurt that process as he'll be departing at just about the point they'd want him to be staying. If they'd do it, I'd probably be open to it, but if I was B-More's GM, I wouldn't consider it. I want guys who can help me 2-3 years from now, not guys who can help me now.

[Harry Chappas]

Am I the only one who thinks Bobby Jenks + Uribe and maybe a Lance Broadway (or at most Gavin Floyd) could net Erik Bedard? With Dotel/Linebrink/MacDougal already don't we all think its worth it to get the type of talent Bedard is?? I think this would instantly make us contenders in the AL Central and the Orioles would be nuts to not bite on that package that gives them a young SP from the Baltimore area (if it was in fact Floyd), a SS they desperately need (even if he does like Krispy Kreme a bit too much), and a young closer in his arb years who just might be the best at what he does.

 

Am I insane?

 

I posted something similar in the cubs Roberts thread over in the Diamond Club. I think a Boone Logan/Jaime Walker discussion should be had as well. Cheap LOOGY for bad contract LOOGY....

[Steve9347]

If Baltimore thought they had a shot at competing next year they might be up for that. But here's the problem. He's out right now for this year, but Baltimore has a young closer in Chris Ray who may be back and pitching again in 2009. And if they're committing to a multi year rebuilding process, Jenks would only hurt that process as he'll be departing at just about the point they'd want him to be staying. If they'd do it, I'd probably be open to it, but if I was B-More's GM, I wouldn't consider it. I want guys who can help me 2-3 years from now, not guys who can help me now.

Jeebus I completely forgot about Chris Ray. This would give them options, but your point makes sense nonetheless.

[Balta1701]

I posted something similar in the cubs Roberts thread over in the Diamond Club. I think a Boone Logan/Jaime Walker discussion should be had as well. Cheap LOOGY for bad contract LOOGY....

You'd seriously give up Booooooone for Jamie Walker?

[BearSox]

Your concern for Buehrle puzzles me. He's been great his entire career, has a bad season, rebounds with another great season, throwing a no-hitter in that time, and you think he might post a 4.5+ era? Take his late season struggles with a grain of salt. He had nothing to play for post-season wise, got his contract, and had a kid during the season. Give him a break. He's a real person too.

Did I say he would? But if he opens 2008 the same way he finished up 2007, it will not be a good season for him. I think it's quite reasonable for me to have some concern.

 

And yeah, give him a break? What the hell are you talking about? I didn't do anything but show concern. I didn't say he sucked or is a worthless baseball player. Plus, I don't he needs breaks from anyone, after all, he is making millions of dollars to play a game most of us pay to watch.

[Harry Chappas]

You'd seriously give up Booooooone for Jamie Walker?

 

Not in a 1 for 1 deal but if it sweetened the pot of a bigger deal yes, they are essentially the same pitcher.

[BearSox]

Am I the only one who thinks Bobby Jenks + Uribe and maybe a Lance Broadway (or at most Gavin Floyd) could net Erik Bedard? With Dotel/Linebrink/MacDougal already don't we all think its worth it to get the type of talent Bedard is?? I think this would instantly make us contenders in the AL Central and the Orioles would be nuts to not bite on that package that gives them a young SP from the Baltimore area (if it was in fact Floyd), a SS they desperately need (even if he does like Krispy Kreme a bit too much), and a young closer in his arb years who just might be the best at what he does.

 

Am I insane?

If we get Bedard, I will take back everything bad I have ever said about KW.

[sircaffey]

If we get Bedard, I will take back everything bad I have ever said about KW.

 

I'd wait until you see what he gave up before making that statement.

[BearSox]

I'd wait until you see what he gave up before making that statement.

nah, just getting Bedard would make my day.

[The Ginger Kid]

I posted something similar in the cubs Roberts thread over in the Diamond Club. I think a Boone Logan/Jaime Walker discussion should be had as well. Cheap LOOGY for bad contract LOOGY....

that would be interesting giving Walker's slam of sox fans when he was with the kitties.

[Balta1701]

that would be interesting giving Walker's slam of sox fans when he was with the kitties.

And...you know, naming his kid after Jim Leyland...

[Steve9347]

Not in a 1 for 1 deal but if it sweetened the pot of a bigger deal yes, they are essentially the same pitcher.

But why would you want an "essentially same pitcher" who costs more?

[santo=dorf]

so who is our mop-up guy when Floyd and Danks can't get through the 5th?

[GreatScott82]

awesome its official!! its a good thing to come home from work to. I just listened to the conference call. KW said he doesn't anticipate any addition to the rotation. That doesn't mean he won't add to it but he seems to love his young guys.. He also said he isn't done adding to the club. Said the starting lineup that ozzie puts together will have a lot to do with how Owens performs in ST. Nothing new... didn't deny going after Colon or didn't deny that its still a possibility.

On paper our bullpen has to be one of the best in the game. Especially if Macdougal finds his game again. KW said that the reason they added a lot of depth to the pen is to limit Jenks innings and spell the young starters throughout the year. (Danks and Floyd).

[Balta1701]

so who is our mop-up guy when Floyd and Danks can't get through the 5th?

With a 7 man pen and the 2 solid innings-eaters at the front of the rotation, the answer to that question probably is "Whoever didn't pitch yesterday".

 

I still expect Ozzie to get fewer innings out of his pen than you'd think coming in to the season. Especially with Floyd and Contreras, if they get in trouble, he's going to give them the chance to struggle through it, exactly as he did with Garland and exactly as he's done with many of his other guys when they hit rough spots. He'll give his starters every chance to do the job. Danks I'm uncertain how he'll treat him, just because of the innings/work issue.

[santo=dorf]

So essentially if Danks and Floyd crap the bed in consecutive starts, Contreras should be ready to come in. I'm not looking forward to that at all.

 

Ozzie has shown he will only use Jenks in a close game, late. Dotel can't pitch more than inning, who the hell knows with Thornton and MacDougal as they could add another 3 runs, Wasserman and Logan are 1 batter pitchers, and if that means Linebrink is stuck with it, I don't think KW spent $19 million very wisely.

[DBAHO]

Hence why they could go with 12 pitchers to start the season, and have a longman such as Broadway / Masset / Haeger in that spot.

 

Or Wasserman could start the season in AAA. Not that it would be very fair after the way he finished off 2007, but he does have options to use IIRC.

 

And I think with the way Ozzie uses his matchups, you may actually need 7 guys in the pen. There were so many times last season where he burned 4-5 guys in a couple of innings.

[RockRaines]

To be honest, the only pitcher I am banking on for us to be at least decent (ERA less then 4.5, not get knocked around every other time out) is Vazquez. Buehrle, maybe, but he has to show me he has made some changes from late last season. We really need one Floyd and/or Danks to step up big time.

 

At this point, I'd MUCH, MUCH, MUCH rather have Garland over Cabrera.

Hahaha. The odds of Buehrle putting up better than a 4.5 ERA is monumentally larger than Vaz, not even close. You need a hug or something. He doesnt need to show YOU anything, hes only had worse than that ONCE in his career, and according to his career, it was an outlier. Even if he pitched the way he did the 2nd half of last year, he still doesnt put up worse than a 4.5. He had 9 bad starts at the end of the season, a lost season.