Octavio Dotel signs with Sox

[RockRaines]

so who is our mop-up guy when Floyd and Danks can't get through the 5th?

Broadway hopefully.

[Brian]

Broadway hopefully.

 

I'm kind of hoping Broadway is our #5 starter. I know, I'm crazy.

[RockRaines]

Am I the only one who thinks Bobby Jenks + Uribe and maybe a Lance Broadway (or at most Gavin Floyd) could net Erik Bedard?

 

Am I insane?

Yes.

 

It would most likely take something like Danks, Fields, Jenks. Two unproven players with upside and one proven player.

[RockRaines]

I'm kind of hoping Broadway is our #5 starter. I know, I'm crazy.

Even though its said he has pedestrian stuff etc etc, he impressed the s*** out of me last season, out of the pen, and starting. Sometimes there are ptichers who dont look like much in the minors, but their stuff flat out works in the bigs. Who knows.

[DBAHO]

And as for all of the talk about Bedard, yeah he's a very good pitcher, but he's also very injury prone.

 

So it would certainly be a risk to give up a package that would probably have to include a Bobby Jenks or a Josh Fields for him.

 

Probably makes you appreciate a little more what we gave up for Vazquez (alebit Chris Young has turned into a stud).

 

Vazquez on the open market right now, you'd certainly get a lot for him. I know the Mets and Omar Minaya would love to have him.

[santo=dorf]

Hence why they could go with 12 pitchers to start the season, and have a longman such as Broadway / Masset / Haeger in that spot.

 

Or Wasserman could start the season in AAA. Not that it would be very fair after the way he finished off 2007, but he does have options to use IIRC.

 

And I think with the way Ozzie uses his matchups, you may actually need 7 guys in the pen. There were so many times last season where he burned 4-5 guys in a couple of innings.

Check the math.

 

Buehrle

Vazquez

Contreras

Danks

Floyd

 

Jenks

Linebrink

Dotel

MacDougal

Thornton

Logan

Wasserman

 

There's your 12.

[DBAHO]

Ahhh yes you're right, my math is a bit off today.

 

But it probably shows why a MacDougal could certainly be traded, or you could find Wasserman in AAA to start in 2008. Ozzie will probably want to carry 2 lefties at least, so Thornton and Logan are probably safe, hence why Mac or Ehren are probably on the hot seat right now.

[Balta1701]

Ahhh yes you're right, my math is a bit off today.

 

But it probably shows why a MacDougal could certainly be traded, or you could find Wasserman in AAA to start in 2008. Ozzie will probably want to carry 2 lefties at least, so Thornton and Logan are probably safe, hence why Mac or Ehren are probably on the hot seat right now.

The problem with trading MMac is that it still makes very little sense to trade a guy when he's possibly at the lowest value he could be at. Another bad season, and how much does his value go down? Not much, because any team acquiring him is hoping for a comeback anyway.

[DBAHO]

Well it's why the Sox are in such a tough situation.

 

I agree it doesn't make sense but can you go into 2008 with a 7 man pen, and not have any of those guys be able to throw more than 2 innings, especially with 3 questionable starting pitchers?

 

Right now, I'd say Wasserman will probably start 2008 in Charlotte. But it all depends on what they do with MacDougal. Can they fix him? Will he pitch better in more easier scenarios for him?

 

I don't like the fact he doesn't like being put into those pressure situations though.

[Balta1701]

Well it's why the Sox are in such a tough situation.

 

I agree it doesn't make sense but can you go into 2008 with a 7 man pen, and not have any of those guys be able to throw more than 2 innings, especially with 3 questionable starting pitchers?

 

Right now, I'd say Wasserman will probably start 2008 in Charlotte. But it all depends on what they do with MacDougal. Can they fix him? Will he pitch better in more easier scenarios for him?

 

I don't like the fact he doesn't like being put into those pressure situations though.

But keep in mind, the team just chose a moment ago to put itself in this situation. A moment ago they were looking at having a pen of Jenks, Thor, Logan, Wasserman, MMac, and Linebrink, with potential #7 guys being Broadway, Masset, Haeger, and Aardsma. One thing that 3 of those 4 options have in common is that they all could easily be expected to be long men. So, we've basically given up the option of having a long man in favor of having an extra short man, and on top of that it cost us Aardsma and probably Masset shortly since he's out of options.

 

I haven't been a fan of Dotel, but that's another reason why I'm not big into this deal.

[DBAHO]

Well I still think the Sox may look at those one of those long guys at the expense of M-Mac or Wasserman.

 

You can't realistically IMHO go into a season with a shaky rotation and not have a long-man in the pen.

 

But maybe after the way Massett pitched in that role, Ozzie and KW have determined in 2008 that they don't really need one.

 

If Dotel stays healthy (which KW said he was confident in) I think he'll pitch well, and something around a 3.50 ERA is possible.

 

I don't mind either scenario (trading Mac or sending Ehren down to AAA), but I think we need say a Lance Broadway in that pen. At least he's actually pitched out of the pen before, so he could probably throw 3-4 innings if needed, or come in for an inning if he has to.

[elrockinMT]

Mac had a lot of upside, but one wonders if the injuries caused by that funky delivery of his may either always be on his mind or have affected him worse than we might know

[rockren]

Check the math.

 

Buehrle

Vazquez

Contreras

Danks

Floyd

 

Jenks

Linebrink

Dotel

MacDougal

Thornton

Logan

Wasserman

 

There's your 12.

 

I'd probably insert Broadway in place of MacDougal's name for LR purposes.

[witesoxfan]

The problem with trading MMac is that it still makes very little sense to trade a guy when he's possibly at the lowest value he could be at. Another bad season, and how much does his value go down? Not much, because any team acquiring him is hoping for a comeback anyway.

 

I actually think MacDougal's value goes completely down if he has a bad season again, whereas right now he still has a bit of value simply because he has outstanding stuff, is signed to a reasonable year, and was only terrible last year. The unpredictability of relievers has a lot to do with that.

[BearSox]

If healthy, MacDougal has pretty close to the best stuff in the pen, depending on how Jenks is pitching. As long as he throws strikes and stays healthy, he is tough to hit. But yes, key words, throws strikes and stays healthy. So, call me crazy, but I'd prefer to keep MacDougal just purely on the fact he could wind up being our best or 2nd best reliever.

[knightni]

So, call me crazy,

 

You're crazy.

 

 

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

If healthy, MacDougal has pretty close to the best stuff in the pen, depending on how Jenks is pitching. As long as he throws strikes and stays healthy, he is tough to hit. But yes, key words, throws strikes and stays healthy. So, call me crazy, but I'd prefer to keep MacDougal just purely on the fact he could wind up being our best or 2nd best reliever.

 

MacDougal threw strikes for a year and a half; otherwise, he's been pretty piss poor in his career at it. And he's never exactly been one who has been great at limiting hits. It seems he throws quite a few get me overs that are hit pretty hard, and when he doesn't throw those, he's walking people.

 

I really don't like MacDougal; fantastic stuff, surely, but I just don't see him as a good pitcher by any stretch of the imagination, and I really doubt he ever will be good again. Perhaps with some fantastic coaching and adjustments, but I'm not even sure of that.

[greg775]

I hope Oz has no tolerance for bases on balls from his pen this year.

I'd prefer he jump dump MacD, but if he makes the team I'd yank him after ONE walk.

Is Myers out of baseball? I am assuming we dumped that stiff.

[sircaffey]

MacDougal threw strikes for a year and a half; otherwise, he's been pretty piss poor in his career at it. And he's never exactly been one who has been great at limiting hits. It seems he throws quite a few get me overs that are hit pretty hard, and when he doesn't throw those, he's walking people.

 

I really don't like MacDougal; fantastic stuff, surely, but I just don't see him as a good pitcher by any stretch of the imagination, and I really doubt he ever will be good again. Perhaps with some fantastic coaching and adjustments, but I'm not even sure of that.

 

I'm with you there. Enough with the "stuff" in the bullpen. I'd gladly swap Mac for someone of lesser stuff with better control which is why I'd love to see Broadway in there instead of Mac. At least Lance has shown to have decent control in the past, although 2007 was a bit erratic.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Mac's "stuff" is great! You want him to get hitters out, too ?

 

Some people are never satisfied.

[Harry Chappas]

McDougal is a-lot like Howry when he was here but with better stuff than Howry. With experience comes the ability to throw better strikes and better control

[kwolf68]

 

Dotel can be overpowering, but the guy has trouble staying healthy. THis is a big 2-year gamble...a bunch of gambles Kenny has made...IF they pay off he'll look like a genius...if they dont, when the reaper comes to collect in 2 years, the Sox will be a team in shambles.

 

Hang another pennant at the Cell and I'll take 100 loss season in 2010.

[almagest]

Dotel can be overpowering, but the guy has trouble staying healthy. THis is a big 2-year gamble...a bunch of gambles Kenny has made...IF they pay off he'll look like a genius...if they dont, when the reaper comes to collect in 2 years, the Sox will be a team in shambles.

 

Hang another pennant at the Cell and I'll take 100 loss season in 2010.

 

I said that in '00-'01, and '05-'06 too. I then realized I was full of crap.

[Chisoxfn]

Love it. I'm actually starting to get excited about this team, that scares me.

So am I. I'm still scared a bit about the top of the order and the back 3 in the rotation but at the same time there are a lot of parts of this club that I really love.

[lvjeremylv]

So am I. I'm still scared a bit about the top of the order and the back 3 in the rotation but at the same time there are a lot of parts of this club that I really love.

 

For me the part of our lineup that worries me is the back end of it. The way I'm understanding it, if Owens comes in and has a good Spring, he'll get the nod in CF and most likely will be our leadoff guy. He certainly proved later in the 2007 season that he can hit at the major league level and that he can steal a base. Hitting .267 and stealing 32 bases is pretty awesome for a rookie if you ask me, and he only played in 93 games. So if Owens is in our lineup, it would probably look like this...

 

CF Owens

SS Cabrera

1B Konerko

DH Thome

LF Swisher

RF Dye

3B Fields (like most, I am assuming Crede is gone, which I would not do, but that's a different topic)

C Pierzynski

2B Richar (Ramirez? Uribe maybe?)

 

Then let's say Owens has a crappy spring and they decide to stick Swisher in center, which would probably give Quentin the slot in LF....

 

SS Cabrera

CF Swisher

1B Konerko

DH Thome

RF Dye

LF Quentin

3B Fields

C Pierzynski

2B Whoever

 

Either way, I think that's a rather solid lineup. Josh is really going to have to work on his approach at the plate. Hitting 23 home runs in 100 games is great - but striking out 125 times is not. Especially when he only walked 35 times. With my lineup the way I have it, our bottom 3 guys had OBPs of .308 (Fields), .289 (Richar - granted, very limited playing time), .284 (Uribe), and .309 (AJ). That will not get it done at the major league level. I left out Alexei because he's a rook and I don't know how well Cuban stats would translate to the majors.

 

Hopefully Owens comes out and has a great Spring, because our lineup would be much better with Owens/Cabrera at the top, with Swisher moving down to the middle of the order.