GreatScott82 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 This is starting to become embarressing. Reports that we sign a player than he signs elsewhere. I hope for the Sox sake this isn't the case and that he does sign. But i wouldn't be suprised if now goes elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 03:52 PM) Simply stating that the bullpen was horrible with those guys ignores the reality of last year's bullpen. It was horrible to start the year with Sisco and Masset performing poorly while at the same time Thornton and MMac blew up or got hurt. Logan performed very well last year in his role, unless you have a problem with lefties putting up a .584 OPS against him, and if you do, then I'm sure you'll be angry with the .430 OPS that righties put up against Wasserman. Logan and Wasserman IIRC didn't even start the year in that bullpen. And the role that Linebrink is now supposed to fill didn't really have anyone in it except for the whole Prinz/Bukvich disaster once MMac got hurt. Just saying that the Sox bullpen was horrible last year ignores the fact that it did improve as the year went by, and it ignores the fact that some of the guys in it (MMac, Thornton) have performed before. You can disagree with specific issues or simply say that I'm wrong to think that last year will be the bottom for Thornton and MacDougal, but the simple fact that last year's bullpen stank proves virtually nothing about how a bullpen where 1/2 the guys weren't there to start last season will perform. It improved after about a 3 month stretch where the bullpen ERA was over 7 IIRC. Take away Jenks' streak, and who was all that impressive? Logan seems to be good against lefties, but he's not used exclusively against them. Adding another guy who won't walk everyone who comes to the plate, and actually can get someone out would be a help. Wassermann looked alright, but I have a hard time believing he could keep that up. Thornton reverted back to the Thornton the Mariners had no roster spot for. MacDougal continued to get hurt, and couldn't throw strikes, something that is not new to him. The only relievers who pitched more than 10 innings last season and had an ERA under 4.79 were Jenks and Wassermann, and Wassermann only threw 23 innings. They also were the only 2 relievers with a WHIP under 1.51. If you don't think that is horrible, I want you to be my boss in June when its time for my review. Edited January 18, 2008 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 QUOTE(Cali @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 03:43 PM) Oh yeah, he's DEFINATELY signing somwhere else now that the initial report has been denied..... most likely with our luck but u cant exactly blame the sox if it happens. this was leaked out from one of dotels relatives. its not like it was from within the organization like with vizquel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 05:28 PM) It improved after about a 3 month stretch where the bullpen ERA was over 7 IIRC. Take away Jenks' streak, and who was all that impressive? Logan seems to be good against lefties, but he's not used exclusively against them. Adding another guy who won't walk everyone who comes to the plate, and actually can get someone out would be a help. Wassermann looked alright, but I have a hard time believing he could keep that up. Thornton reverted back to the Thornton the Mariners had no roster spot for. MacDougal continued to get hurt, and couldn't throw strikes, something that is not new to him. The only relievers who pitched more than 10 innings last season and had an ERA under 4.79 were Jenks and Wassermann, and Wassermann only threw 23 innings. They also were the only 2 relievers with a WHIP under 1.51. If you don't think that is horrible, I want you to be my boss in June when its time for my review. Why do you have a hard time thinking Wasseman can keep that up? He is out of the mold of several pitchers that have had long term success as relievers in the majors. Granted, last season at the beginning the pen fell apart, but with 2 signings and the emergence of Wass and Broadway, the pen has a chance to be very good. Broadway-swing/long man-only 10 IP but .143 BAA Dotel-7th inning/ RH specialist career 1.06 WHIP vs Righties Thorton-Loogy/set up Logan-Loogy Wass-.77 WHIP vs Righties .174 BAA Linebrink 8th Jenks closer Thats what I would have as a concrete pen if we signed Dotel, and its pretty damn good. Edited January 18, 2008 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 05:10 PM) This is starting to become embarressing. Reports that we sign a player than he signs elsewhere. I hope for the Sox sake this isn't the case and that he does sign. But i wouldn't be suprised if now goes elsewhere. BFD. The guy has pitched 56 innings over the last 3 years. If he signs with another team, no big deal. $11 million for 2 years seemed farfetched. If he gets more than that, more power to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) I would assume that this completes the bullpen search. So is this the last move of the offseason? I really hope not. We could still use a few things. I've still got some hope about Roberts, as sad as it seems. Nevertheless, even if it is the last move, I'd say even despite missing quite a few great opportunities, it's not been a bad offseason. That is, if it's really the case that he signs. If not, s***. Edited January 19, 2008 by TheBigHurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 The sox may be no better with Dotel than they would sticking with a young guy. But erring on the side of a proven guy [when healthy] should be the way to go after the debacle of 2007. Of the guys out of options [aardsma, Masset, sisco], Dotel should be able to outperform them. The sox can always have other options in AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 07:41 PM) The sox may be no better with Dotel than they would sticking with a young guy. But erring on the side of a proven guy [when healthy] should be the way to go after the debacle of 2007. Of the guys out of options [aardsma, Masset, sisco], Dotel should be able to outperform them. The sox can always have other options in AAA. Out of those, I believe only Masset is actually out of options. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on Aa, but I'm fairly certain we have Sisco for 1 more year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Aardsma is also out of options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 More on what Dotel's agent saying "The White Sox are definitely a team Octavio has interest in," agent Dan Horwits said. "There's mutual interest. Our discussions have been intensifying with the White Sox. We'll see where they lead." Dotel has other offers, some for one year, some for two years with an option, some to be the closer. With the Sox he'd be a middle-inning reliever. "He would be fine being a setup man," Horwits said. The 34-year-old right-hander was the closer for part of last season in Kansas City, then finished the year with Atlanta. Combined, he was 2-1 with a 4.11 ERA and 11 saves. He struck out 41 batters in 302/3 innings. Dotel's time was limited last summer with strained oblique and back muscles. In 2005 he underwent reconstructive elbow surgery and pitched just 251/3 innings combined in 2005-06. Among other teams known to have interest in Dotel are the Orioles. He might be a closer there, but the possible deal is believed to be for only one year. Dotel was paid $5 million last year. The Sox's bullpen had a 5.47 ERA last season, its worst since at least 1957. In a 65-game stretch beginning May 9, relievers had a 3-14 record and a 7.46 ERA while blowing 11 save opportunities. •Individual-game tickets for Sox home games will go on sale at 10 a.m. Feb. 15 at Ticketmaster outlets or www.whitesox.com or by calling 866-769-4263. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Come on sign pllease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 09:43 PM) Out of those, I believe only Masset is actually out of options. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on Aa, but I'm fairly certain we have Sisco for 1 more year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Nick Masset was a top prospect in the Rangers system when he came over to the White Sox in the John Denks/Brandon McCarthy deal. Is he still considered to be a top prospect, and, if so, how can he not make the team given that he is out of options ? How many more options did he have when the White Sox acquired him ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I have little to no faith in our bullpen at this point, and I think signing Dotel would be a good move. Though his time was limited last year, he was effective when he was pitching, and he looks to be a good bet to be healthy this year. We need all the help we can get. Also, why is salary such a concern in cases like this? I don't get it. Sure, the Sox might be overpaying at 5.5/year, but so what? It's not like that contract is going to cripple them financially, and with the going rate of starting pitching being so high, you know reliever contracts are going to scale up as well. I just can't understand the mentality of "well, he may have helped us, and put up an ERA of 4 instead of 6 or 7 like our bullpen last year, but at least we didn't overpay!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 This guy wasn't bad when he was healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Dotel also had FIP's of 3.99 in Kansas City and 2.23 for the Braves, so he had a pretty decent 2007. If we're going to not use him as a closer, I think we'll probably have to overpay (in salary and length of a deal) to get him, which it looks like we're willing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-08...1,3633749.story From the sounds of it, Dotel would be fine being a set up man. He has to prove he's healthy and able to close out games. With the sox, he would be in a decent situation to do that. That has to factor into his decision on where to sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I think as well, if we're out of contention, he's always a guy in demand at the deadline, so you would probably get something decent for him e.g look at what the Rangers got for Eric Gagne. Of course this is if we actually sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 19, 2008 -> 01:04 PM) I think as well, if we're out of contention, he's always a guy in demand at the deadline, so you would probably get something decent for him e.g look at what the Rangers got for Eric Gagne. Of course this is if we actually sign him. That is a good point. IMO, signing Dotel could go a long way toward providing the sox with the right amount of bullpen depth. Closer-Jenks 8th- RH-Linebrink Dotel LH-Thornton Logan 7th-MacDougal Long man-Masset AAA- Wasserman Oneli Perez Adam Russell Dewon Day [?] not sure of his status though Egbert/ Broadway/ Haeger The sox still need some AAA pitching depth. Maybe trading Crede could help there. Edited January 19, 2008 by beck72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I think Wasserman starts the season with us, but if we don't trade anyone and sign Dotel, then I guess it's plausible. I just hope he doesn't wear down like Pat Neshek did for the Twins last season. But that pen certainly looks better than last season. And the Sox could even try to upgrade even more by picking up a Justin Speier in a Konerko deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Wow Octavio Dotel... Not a bad Signing if it happens, Great Arm can give you an occasional Heart Attack a la Damaso Marte, But i think he's waaaaaaaaaayyyyy Better than what they've got now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jan 18, 2008 -> 02:52 PM) I understand that those contracts are not comparable but this is nothing more than an $11M band aid. That's pretty pricey for a band aid. Nah Eddie Guardado would be a band aid, Dotel has the chance to be neosporin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Dotel had 41 Ks and only 8 unintentional walks in 30.2 IP last year....thats getting it done and a strong indication that his arm is healthy (or at least that his stuff is back) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Baltimore Orioles Part 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 19, 2008 -> 07:23 AM) AAA- Wasserman Oneli Perez Adam Russell Dewon Day [?] not sure of his status though Egbert/ Broadway/ Haeger The sox still need some AAA pitching depth. Maybe trading Crede could help there. Sisco, Aardsma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 19, 2008 -> 07:23 AM) That is a good point. IMO, signing Dotel could go a long way toward providing the sox with the right amount of bullpen depth. Closer-Jenks 8th- RH-Linebrink Dotel LH-Thornton Logan 7th-MacDougal Long man-Masset AAA- Wasserman Oneli Perez Adam Russell Dewon Day [?] not sure of his status though Egbert/ Broadway/ Haeger The sox still need some AAA pitching depth. Maybe trading Crede could help there. I feel more comfortable with Wass and Broadway up instead of Masset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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