In the market for a new car

[iamshack]

When an engine manufacturer claims their vehicle can go 10,000 miles between changes, what exactly are they saying happens? Are they saying that the oil will sludge up and their engine will keep going or their engine will cause the oil to last longer?

 

I have no idea.

 

I guess I believed they were saying that the engine can run efficiently and without problems (I guess the word we are looking for is "normally") with oil changes only necessary every 10k miles.

[almagest]

Anyways, sorry to hijack the thread with the oil change stuff.

 

Back to buying a new car, a few more tips I have not seen posted yet:

 

1) Never buy the first year of a brand new model or a significant design/body change of an existing model.

 

2) Consider where you park the car on a regular basis.

 

Is there any specific reason why #1 is true? I mean, it makes sense, since there's no reliability data on the new cars or redesigns, but I'd think you could get a good idea of what to expect from reviews, and from past data from other models from that manufacturer.

 

As for #2 -- street parking primarily, in the southwest suburbs. Occasionally city street parking -- specifically, Bridgeport and Portage Park.

[almagest]

The Outback is a nice looking car, too. Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure why I hadn't checked cars.com yet either, so thanks for the reminder.

 

Anyone have any experiences with the Honda Fit?

[StrangeSox]

Is there any specific reason why #1 is true? I mean, it makes sense, since there's no reliability data on the new cars or redesigns, but I'd think you could get a good idea of what to expect from reviews, and from past data from other models from that manufacturer.

 

As an engineer, I can tell you that we never get everything 100% right the first time. That first model year is when a lot of bugs get worked out and problems get discovered. These things get fixed, updated and upgraded in later model years.

[iamshack]

Is there any specific reason why #1 is true? I mean, it makes sense, since there's no reliability data on the new cars or redesigns, but I'd think you could get a good idea of what to expect from reviews, and from past data from other models from that manufacturer.

 

As for #2 -- street parking primarily, in the southwest suburbs. Occasionally city street parking -- specifically, Bridgeport and Portage Park.

 

Well, any time there are major design changes or a new product is introduced entirely, there tends to be blips and bugs that occur that were unforseen by the manufacturer. It's only a general rule of thumb, but it usually takes about a year for the manufacturer to get the bugs sorted out.

 

As for #2, you are probably on the right track then in getting something smaller in size...

[almagest]

Yeah, I think I was figuring that *all* cars have issues, but they are probably more serious in a new/restructured model than they are in something that's been around a while. I'll likely stay away from anything new or redesigned for 2008.

[Texsox]

I have no idea.

 

I guess I believed they were saying that the engine can run efficiently and without problems (I guess the word we are looking for is "normally") with oil changes only necessary every 10k miles.

 

I think I finally figured out how to write what I was thinking.

 

Logically the statement that Audi developed an engine that can go 10,000 ("A") but the oil manufactures do not have a 10,000 mile oil ("B" can not be true and has to be crap.

 

For Audi's statement to be true, the oil has to last. So if A is true (that Audi developed a 10,000 mile engine), then B (the oil can't last) has to be false. There has to be an oil that lasts 10,000 miles. If B is true, (there is no such oil), then A has to be false. Audi has not developed an engine unless it runs on sludged up oil. So their statement is busted, from a formal logic point of view. I see no way that both A and B can be true, this the statement is always false.

 

Anyone with more logic study comment?

[Texsox]

Yeah, I think I was figuring that *all* cars have issues, but they are probably more serious in a new/restructured model than they are in something that's been around a while. I'll likely stay away from anything new or redesigned for 2008.

 

Less true today than in the days of hand built models. Many of today's cars are reshuffling standard compenents, not new inventions. Still a lot of truth, but technology and better engineering and design reviews, via computer, is quickly narrowing the gap.

[iamshack]

I think I finally figured out how to write what I was thinking.

 

Logically the statement that Audi developed an engine that can go 10,000 ("A") but the oil manufactures do not have a 10,000 mile oil ("B" can not be true and has to be crap.

 

For Audi's statement to be true, the oil has to last. So if A is true (that Audi developed a 10,000 mile engine), then B (the oil can't last) has to be false. There has to be an oil that lasts 10,000 miles. If B is true, (there is no such oil), then A has to be false. Audi has not developed an engine unless it runs on sludged up oil. So their statement is busted, from a formal logic point of view. I see no way that both A and B can be true, this the statement is always false.

 

Anyone with more logic study comment?

 

Well, I'm sure you're right. How could Audi develop an engine that go 10k miles between oil changes that uses oil that does not exist? Why would they do so? I'm sure you're right, and I'm pretty sure it's the oil manufacturers/oil change people that are probably lying...

 

 

[GoodAsGould]

where do you get that about Mazda's they are consistently great cars that keep their value.

 

I didnt do research... I used to work at Carmax so got to drive almost every car imaginable. Besides Jetta's....... to me Mazda's gave people the most problems and were returned getting work done on them. Not too mention I don't think they are the most comfortable cars either.

[Texsox]

Well, I'm sure you're right. How could Audi develop an engine that go 10k miles between oil changes that uses oil that does not exist? Why would they do so? I'm sure you're right, and I'm pretty sure it's the oil manufacturers/oil change people that are probably lying...

 

It is an interesting topic. You have two totally different industries working together with potentially different agendas. I never really thought about how the consumer's needs would fit into this equation.

[Steve9347]

There is always one problem with buying a recent used car... why was it sold? You've got to wonder why someone buys a brand new car, which loses 30%+ of its value in the first year, and then sells it or trades it in. Sure, some people just buy a new car every year because they have money to burn, but think about the other more likely scenarios... they all point to a car that probably had problems of some kind or another. That's the big issue with buying used - you are taking a chance (a significant one if the car is only a year old) that the car is problematic.

That's why you get a carfax report and then there's no worries.

[Texsox]

I was thinking about the "why was it traded" question. If it was traded that soon, and there were problems, it would have been under warranty, and it would be reported. Dealers are one of the better CarFax reporters.

[StrangeSox]

That's why you get a carfax report and then there's no worries.

 

See my earlier post about that.

 

If something shows up on the Carfax, great, now you know. However, just because the Carfax is clear doesn't mean the car wasn't in an accident. My girlfriend's car was in two serious accidents, both of which did 2k+ of damage and bent the frame (was fixed, but still, its never quite the same). Neither of them showed up on the Carfax report.

[StrangeSox]

I was thinking about the "why was it traded" question. If it was traded that soon, and there were problems, it would have been under warranty, and it would be reported. Dealers are one of the better CarFax reporters.

 

I know GM has a computerized system that tracks all of a car's warranty claims and work done at a dealership. I found out my car had part of the front quarter panel repainted fresh off the boat. I also found out that the trunk release was replaced with ~100 miles on the car. Those are things a Carfax would never tell you.

[iamshack]

I was thinking about the "why was it traded" question. If it was traded that soon, and there were problems, it would have been under warranty, and it would be reported. Dealers are one of the better CarFax reporters.

 

A good friend of mine owned a corvette dealership for years and years and years. And what he often seemed to believe that many of those who trade their cars in after only a year or so had either made incorrect decisions (financially, or in terms of the "lifestyle" of the car), or they were buyers wealthy enough that they could buy the next "hot" car whenever they liked, regardless of the money they were losing by constantly buying and trading back in new cars.

 

I'm sure some percentage of cars are traded back in quickly because there were some disproportionate number of mechanical issues, but I think the majority of them are probably just bad decisions being corrected.

[RockRaines]

That's why you get a carfax report and then there's no worries.

Yeah...IF it was reported to Carfax. You ever been in a fender bender, or an accident and then not reported it to the cops?

[BurlyMan56]

Go with a Hyundai Sonata. Great car for the money you pay

[Rex Hudler]

I'm a little late joining this conversation, but I thought I would throw two cents in here.

 

1. Buying new is not a good move financially. Period. Depreciation just eats your money.

 

2. Paying cash is the best option, but who can do that? Not many of us. Putting a significant portion down is however a very smart move financially. Also, my suggestion is whatever your payment is once the deal is done, plan on paying an additional $50/month (or more if you can).

 

Think of buying a car financially this way. You buy a new car @ $20,000. You drive it off the lot and it is immediately worth $16,000 - $17,000. You have a payment of roughly $400 for the next 5 years totaling $24,000. Hopefully you already see where this is BAD math for the purchaser. Too many people realize they can't afford a car (either can't or shouldn't) and want to sell and find themselves upside down, finding they owe more than the care is actually worth. Not a good feeling, I would imagine.

 

3. NEVER, EVER negotiate the price of a car based on the payment you can afford. I suggest having pre-approved financing from your own source before ever starting to seriously negotiate price. ALWAYS negotiate the sale price of the vehicle without the external factors such as financing. The deal is the deal, however you pay for it is completely independent of that.

 

4. If you MUST buy a new car, buy on that has historically proven it will retain value at a higher rate than most cars. Think Accord here. I'm sure there are others. But if you are going to lose on depreciation, it makes sense to lose less.

 

5. Personally, I believe finding a 3+ year old car with 30-50k miles on it is the best move you can make financially. Choose a car with a reliable service history and consider going with a bit nicer of a car than you might buy new. You can usually find dealers that are selling those types of cars near wholesale that are selling cars recently turned in from a lease. You can purchase an extended warranty to 100k miles if you choose. That can be a whole other argument based on financial viability, but I'll leave that alone now. It really boils down to your own level of comfort with risk.

 

I bought a new Honda Accord right out college and drove it for 11 years and 180,000+ miles. That will be the last new car I buy until I can and decide to pony up cash.

 

In 2001 I bought a Lexus ES300, wanting a nicer car but not the higher price tag. It had 46k miles, but it checked out fine with two mechanics. Long story short, I paid the same for the Lexus that my girlfriend paid for a new Honda Accord LX. I did buy the extended warranty and negotiated it down $400 from its original price.

 

I got a better car with nicer features for the same money I would have paid had I gone with my original strategy. My payment was originally around $360 and I paid $7,000 in the first 7 months I owned the car (think tax refund, xmas bonus, etc) and then refinanced and knocked my payment down $100+.

 

The car is still driving like a champ now. Aside from wearables such as brakes, battery, tires, I have only had to make minor repairs. My radio did mess up and I had to have it fixed. I had an oil leak around a seal. The extended warranty picked up the tab on both and I had my timing belt and water pump changed at the time the seal was being replaced. The only other problem I had and this was at about 120k miles, was the motor to my moonroof burned up. I rarely ever used it so I have chosen not to fix it. No biggie for me. I am currently at about 130k miles, have no car payment and am driving a Lexus that no one can tell is almost 10 years old. The exterior and interior still look great!

 

Good luck and do lots of research before you buy. Just think about what you are doing to yourself financially if you buy new.

[Rex Kickass]

I like the Mazda 3, but if my current Mitsubishi dies or gets replaced, i am getting an HHR like I have for my work car. Bright orange with flames, good MPG and fun to drive.

And huuuuuge blind spots and horrible rear visibility. The more I drove that car on my vacation, the less I liked it.

[Rex Kickass]

In this case, both the dealer AND the driver's manual say 3k, then 10k. But I suppose part of that may be the fact that this is a hybrid - the gas engine only runs some of the time.

My Scion xB recommends between 5 and 8 thousand miles for oil changes. Bought it new, and at 81000 miles, its still running wonderfully.

[vandy125]

Based on Consumer Reports reliability rankings, the Honda is the one that I would recommend. The other ones are above average (except for the Focus), but Honda's are always good at retaining their value (as much as possible for a new car anyhow). I would definitely recommend going a year or 2 used.

 

I was in a pretty similar position just 3 weeks ago. I totaled a 2002 Chevy Impala (that I had bought used). I started looking around and was looking a many of the cars you listed, but went just a year older. I ended up finding an 07 Toyota Solara for 10K less than what 08s are going for. My payment on it is about $10 more each month than the Impala, and I got bumper-to-bumper coverage for 10 years or 100,000 miles.

 

It made a huge difference going just 1 year older.

[RockRaines]

I do 2 year leases, I like new cars, warranties and I do not like owning a depreciating asset. Ive lost alot more money buying cars than leasing them.

[DrunkBomber]

I saw a few people mentioned Accords and thats what I got and I really like it and its in your price range. I have a V6 Coupe and like it a lot more than I liked the Civic.

 

Also, as far as Carfax there are tons of times when accidents dont get reported. Even if a car Im looking at has a clean carfax I would check all the panels for overspray and make sure the panels all line up. Also, if the price seems a little low for the car I would definitely get it on a rack and make sure it doesnt have any frame damage because if it does you more than likely will get murdered if you trade it in.

[almagest]

The Accord seems like a pretty good choice. I'm finding some nice ones in my price range. I was looking at a 2 door V6 Mercedes-Benz C320, which was a very nice car, but just thinking about the associated repair costs soon after purchase for a car with 56,000 miles on it makes me shudder.

 

There's some excellent advice in this thread. Thanks everyone!