Sox have had a pretty nice off season

[SnB]

The sox have certainly improved, so in that case, I guess you can call it a good offseason.

 

However, I think for the sox to be legitimately competitive, another starter has to be had.

 

So i guess it depends on your definition

[Kalapse]

Something just below $7 million this year.

The whole thing is confusing really. From what I understand it's $22M over 3 years w/ a handshake agreement that Philly will pitch in some cash for the 4th year if the option is exercised/vests.

 

And the payroll according to my figures, which includes Crede, Uribe, Masset, Ramirez, Dotel, MacDougal, Owens, Richar and Floyd also assuming that all Pre-Arb players will make $400K (though some will make a bit more) the payroll stands at about $119,025,000. Then subtract the $1.5M from LAA and the ~$7.3M from Philly and the final number is $110,192,000.

[YASNY]

Outside of the Garland deal, I really like what I've seen from the Buehrle extension through the Dotel signing. I don't know what Uribe and Crede will net, but I expect them to be moved by the deadline. Hopefully they'll be competitive this year and KW will wait until next winter to deal Paulie.

 

By next winter, actually about May, Paulie will have trade veto rights. Next winter might be too late.

[DBAHO]

It's very possible they hit "the cap" 10 mil ago, and are just assuming Crede and Uribe are gone. That might not be the case, but it's possible.

 

Like others, if a starter was brought in, I will really become excited about this team.

I think the payroll's only up $7M from last season, or something like that, and in the past few years it has gone up from season to season by about that amount.

 

But if we traded 1 of the 2, and there's not a SP out there who can help us, put it towards the draft or some Latin America signings.

[sox-r-us]

I do not get the "have to trade Uribe & Crede & even McDougal" crowd....why do you care if the Sox have an extra 10M payroll used as subs/flexibility/depth for the line up? Seriously....how does it matter? If we can trade them, thats cool but by not trading them, it is not the end of the world. It is not like there is a cannot-miss player out there in FA that we can spend on by trading these 2 guys and using that 10M for that player.

 

Fields can be used as DH from time to time; so can Crede (giving Thome rest)

Fields can be used as LF from time to time depending on splits against pitchers etc

Uribe can be used as 2B and even as a SS to rest Cabrera from time to time ....

Swisher can be used to play CF, RF and to play 1B too from time to time (giving Kong rest)

Having Dotel, McDougal, Linebrink, Thornton and Jenks gives Ozzie lots of flexibility to play match ups to shut down the Tigers, Red Sox and Yankees when it matters after the 6th inning....

 

The injury to Crede really sunk us for the 1st half of the year last year....having depth is crucial; it is not like we will stay injury free for all of the season, especially with some of the vets (Kong, Dye, Thome) on this team

 

Say Thome goes out for some games next year....wouldn't you be thrilled to have either Crede or Fields playing the DH spot now?

 

Say Kong goes out for some games next year....wouldn't it be better to try Fields at 1B in that case?

 

Or do you guys really miss the scrubs who were on the bench or starting at some point in the season last year?

 

[Balta1701]

I do not get the "have to trade Uribe & Crede & even McDougal" crowd....why do you care if the Sox have an extra 10M payroll used as subs/flexibility/depth for the line up? Seriously....how does it matter? If we can trade them, thats cool but by not trading them, it is not the end of the world. It is not like there is a cannot-miss player out there in FA that we can spend on by trading these 2 guys and using that 10M for that player.

 

Fields can be used as DH from time to time; so can Crede (giving Thome rest)

Fields can be used as LF from time to time depending on splits against pitchers etc

Uribe can be used as 2B and even as a SS to rest Cabrera from time to time ....

Swisher can be used to play CF, RF and to play 1B too from time to time (giving Kong rest)

Having Dotel, McDougal, Linebrink, Thornton and Jenks gives Ozzie lots of flexibility to play match ups to shut down the Tigers, Red Sox and Yankees when it matters after the 6th inning....

 

The injury to Crede really sunk us for the 1st half of the year last year....having depth is crucial; it is not like we will stay injury free for all of the season, especially with some of the vets (Kong, Dye, Thome) on this team

 

Say Thome goes out for some games next year....wouldn't you be thrilled to have either Crede or Fields playing the DH spot now?

 

Say Kong goes out for some games next year....wouldn't it be better to try Fields at 1B in that case?

 

Or do you guys really miss the scrubs who were on the bench or starting at some point in the season last year?

If we look at our roster...we have 9 starters including Thome. We currently seem to have a 12 man pitching staff. That brings us to 21.

 

We need a backup catcher, so Hall clearly has a role.

Backup OF...Owens.

Backup IF...Ozuna

Backup IF...Uribe

Backup IF...Crede.

 

Simple calculation here. 21 players plus 5 is 26, and that leaves no room for Alexi Ramirez or a 2nd backup OF. If the team wants to keep both Crede and Uribe, then that means Ozuna is gone, and Ramirez must go to AAA, or Fields goes to AAA.

 

Depth is nice to some extent, but at some point, it becomes excessive to have too much depth at one spot because it costs you salary and hurts your ability to produce from the other positions.

[DBAHO]

Well IMHO, it's a better use of the resources you have.

 

You keep Crede, Fields goes back to the minors. KW has already stated that. Both are not going to be on the 25 man roster when the season starts. If you get no good offers for Crede, I guess you could start him for the season, but Fields deserves a starting job on the back of what he did last season. And he still needs as much time at third base as possible, so I don't know if it's the best idea to move him around.

 

As for Uribe, paying $4.5M to a utility man who puts up a sub .300 OBP, and had a subpar year in the field in 2007 makes no sense to me whatsoever. You've got Ramirez who can play that role, and sure he'll give you a little less power, but you're paying him 3.5M less to do so.

 

Trading the 2 saves you that $9.6M million, and you can use that to rebuild the farm system, which KW can then use to make trades to improve the team.

 

Realistically, how many more games are Crede and Uribe going to win in 2007 compared to Fields and Ramirez?

 

As for Mac, the question is, is he ever going to get back to the pitcher he was in the 2nd half of 2006, and can we afford to have a bullpen without a longman in there with Contreras, Danks and Floyd the last 3 guys in our rotation?

[TheBigHurt]

I think so, except for the Garland trade. Terrible. Other than that, not bad.

[WCSox]

By next winter, actually about May, Paulie will have trade veto rights. Next winter might be too late.

 

Forgot about that. Good point.

 

That doesn't make him untradeable, but it certianly limits what KW could get for him.

 

[Balta1701]

Forgot about that. Good point.

 

That doesn't make him untradeable, but it certianly limits what KW could get for him.

I think it's fairly safe to presume that if things got to the point where the Sox did want to trade Mr. Konerko, and the Sox went and told Mr. Konerko that they had a deal on the table for him awaiting his approval, and it wasn't to one of the teams already listed in his limited no trade clause (Covered what, 10 teams or so?) then I doubt Paul would veto it. Things would have to get pretty down for the team to actually move Paul, and if things got that down, I doubt he'd say no.

[Leonard Zelig]

Do we know that Ramirez is ready for the major leagues?

 

I don't think having Uribe on the bench would be that bad of a thing. He can play 3 infield positions, and Richar is still a question mark.

[Soxfest]

It has been a pretty non eventfull off-season and in the AL Central that is not a good thing!

[Balta1701]

It has been a pretty non eventfull off-season and in the AL Central that is not a good thing!

We have a 25 man roster. By my count, we've changed about 25% of that roster just from the end of last season. Compared to opening day last year, the only guys who are in the same roles are:

 

Dye

Konerko

Thome

AJ

Buehrle

Vazquez

Contreras

Jenks

Danks

 

And the other guys still on the roster are:

Uribe

Crede?

Thornton

MMac

 

By my count, about 1/2 of our roster has turned over since opening day last year, and we're not done yet depending on Crede/Uribe. And on top of that, throw in the fact that Danks was just a rook at the start of last season, and there has been some MAJOR turnover on this team in the last year. 2/3 of our OF is new, 3/4 of our infield is new, more than half our bullpen wasn't here opening day last year, and the rotation has youngins in Danks and Floyd. Uneventful?

[DBAHO]

Do we know that Ramirez is ready for the major leagues?

 

I don't think having Uribe on the bench would be that bad of a thing. He can play 3 infield positions, and Richar is still a question mark.

I'd say probably not. Starting the year off in AAA would probably be a good thing for him.

 

But we've got Ozuna who can play a little 2B/3B. I'd still try to trade Uribe, and get a cheaper backup on the bench. I guess I'm just sick of Juan on this team. He certainly isn't worth 4.5M a season (take him out of the Cell imagine what his OPS would be like then with the decrease in power).

 

For example, I would have liked the idea of trading him to say the O's for a prospect, and then signing Jason Jennings with the money we've saved. But he's with Texas now.

[bear_brian]

Some time ago there was a rumor that the Sox and Boston had a deal worked out for Coco Crisp in the event that the Red Sox did not land Santana. As I recall it was to involve John Shelby and one other minor leaguer. Don't know how true the rumor was or is.

 

Seems to me that Crisp would resolve two of the biggest remaining issues this team has - excellent defense in center field coupled with an experienced lead-off man. I am not saying I am wild about Coco, but he is an outstanding defensive centerfielder. Acquiring him would allow us to move Dye to left, put Swisher in right, siginficantly upgrade our overall outfield defense. Crisp is not a great lead-off hitter, but he switch hits, walks a little and can certainly steal bases. He is a lifetime .280 hitter.

 

Thoughts?

[DBAHO]

Also I think the Sox could still look into a Kotchman / Santana deal for Paulie possibly. Don't know if they'd target Kendrick, Figgins etc. if they couldn't bring in a replacement first baseman (unless you then got Fields to play 1B).

 

That will fill out the backend of the rotation, saves payroll, and we get younger (albeit we lose some power in the middle of the order).

[Balta1701]

Some time ago there was a rumor that the Sox and Boston had a deal worked out for Coco Crisp in the event that the Red Sox did not land Santana. As I recall it was to involve John Shelby and one other minor leaguer. Don't know how true the rumor was or is.

 

Seems to me that Crisp would resolve two of the biggest remaining issues this team has - excellent defense in center field coupled with an experienced lead-off man. I am not saying I am wild about Coco, but he is an outstanding defensive centerfielder. Acquiring him would allow us to move Dye to left, put Swisher in right, siginficantly upgrade our overall outfield defense. Crisp is not a great lead-off hitter, but he switch hits, walks a little and can certainly steal bases. He is a lifetime .280 hitter.

 

Thoughts?

Why would we pick up another OF when we are still holding Carlos Quentin, who may well be the best of the whole bunch in the next year or two?

[DBAHO]

Some time ago there was a rumor that the Sox and Boston had a deal worked out for Coco Crisp in the event that the Red Sox did not land Santana. As I recall it was to involve John Shelby and one other minor leaguer. Don't know how true the rumor was or is.

 

Seems to me that Crisp would resolve two of the biggest remaining issues this team has - excellent defense in center field coupled with an experienced lead-off man. I am not saying I am wild about Coco, but he is an outstanding defensive centerfielder. Acquiring him would allow us to move Dye to left, put Swisher in right, siginficantly upgrade our overall outfield defense. Crisp is not a great lead-off hitter, but he switch hits, walks a little and can certainly steal bases. He is a lifetime .280 hitter.

 

Thoughts?

That would mean you would have Quentin and Owens on the bench and I cannot see that scenario happening. Quentin will start in LF and put up an .800 OPS IMHO. That'll surprise a few people but he's certainly capable of it.

 

And what would we give up to Boston for Crisp? It's not like we have much left in our farm system.

[bear_brian]

I am excited about Quentin's potential, but ... I don't know about you, but I don't see Swisher being what we are going to need for center field. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but he is a far cry defensively from Sizemore, or Granderson, and that's who the competition has. Additionally, putting OCab at lead-off is not where he excels. Crisp addresses both issues, and we are going to need as much defense as possible to help our 3-4-5 starters and to compensate for the growing pains Fields will have at third base.

[DBAHO]

Why does it make sense then for KW to;

 

1 - Give up his 3 best prospects for Swisher.

2 - Give up his best position prospect for Quentin.

 

And not have both in the lineup? Seems like if that was the case, (the 2nd most likely obviously), then what was the point in making that deal.

 

Couldn't KW have just traded for Crisp instead of Swisher if he wanted a good defensive leadoff center fielder?

[witesoxfan]

I am excited about Quentin's potential, but ... I don't know about you, but I don't see Swisher being what we are going to need for center field. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but he is a far cry defensively from Sizemore, or Granderson, and that's who the competition has. Additionally, putting OCab at lead-off is not where he excels. Crisp addresses both issues, and we are going to need as much defense as possible to help our 3-4-5 starters and to compensate for the growing pains Fields will have at third base.

 

Crisp is a worse leadoff hitter than Cabrera.

[bear_brian]

Yeah ... may be you're right. It just seems to me that KW's "balance" comment is not accurate, that we still do not have a true lead-off hitter and we certainly do not have a good to excellent defensive centerfielder. It's wonderful to talk about what Quentin MIGHT do, but even if he does, how many games will Swisher's defensive inabilities cost us (a la Mackowiak)?

 

Maybe Phil Rogers (who I thoroughly detest) does have an idea in the Konerko for Melky Cabrera conjecture. Melky plays center, leads off, Dye moves to first, Swisher plays right, Quentin left. That is a very good defensive outfield, and we get younger and faster. I know everyone will yell and scream about losing Paulie, but it does seem to make us better.

 

Bottom line, at least IMO ... we had better find good defense in center or it will be a long year.

[DBAHO]

I think Swisher had a decent RZR in CF in 2007, in fact I think it was better than Rowand's in 2005 IIRC.

 

So I'd at least give him a chance there in CF to start off the season, and he'll have less ground to cover in CF at the Cell than he would have in Oakland.

[Balta1701]

Yeah ... may be you're right. It just seems to me that KW's "balance" comment is not accurate, that we still do not have a true lead-off hitter and we certainly do not have a good to excellent defensive centerfielder. It's wonderful to talk about what Quentin MIGHT do, but even if he does, how many games will Swisher's defensive inabilities cost us (a la Mackowiak)?

 

Maybe Phil Rogers (who I thoroughly detest) does have an idea in the Konerko for Melky Cabrera conjecture. Melky plays center, leads off, Dye moves to first, Swisher plays right, Quentin left. That is a very good defensive outfield, and we get younger and faster. I know everyone will yell and scream about losing Paulie, but it does seem to make us better.

 

Bottom line, at least IMO ... we had better find good defense in center or it will be a long year.

Konerko for Melky Cabrera alone is so horribly one sided I find it hard to contemplate.

 

The question is...how is Swisher in CF? If he's at Mackowiak's level, then we're clearly in trouble. But hopefully the team wouldn't be crazy enough to put him out there if he were going to be that bad. If he is, then we'll be a disaster. If he costs us a couple games out there via defense, then so be it, for a .400 OBP in the #2 slot I'll take it.

 

Secondly, I find it hard to say we don't have a true leadoff hitter when in this day and age, a true, Lou Brock type leadoff hitter is simply a rarity. Almost every team is now looking for more slugging and OBP from their leadoff hitter rather than looking for simply stolen bases. I couldn't care less about having a true leadoff hitter if we stick Cabrera and Swisher in front of Thome and wind up with OBP's of .330 and .400 in front of him. Swisher certainly fills that OBP need, and now we're much more likely to have a guy on base in front of Thome.

[joeynach]

Take your sunny optimism elsewhere my friend, this is Soxtalk.

 

 

There is no SP on the market that is an upgrade, not even Colon. I assume the dotel and ramirez deals mean either Crede or Uribe will be dealt to clear the $5 Mil payroll (dont forget the sox recieve $ for Thome and Cabrera). The only change to the roster I can see before opening day would be a trade of Crede for either Lowry or Ervin Santana, that or Fields is simply demoted. But i do believe the sox are looking to shed crede's salary at some point during the year.