spawn Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 10:59 AM) Fields hit 23 homers last year...why should he have to win the job? It should be Crede who has to win the spot from Fields and money should have absolutely nothing to do with it. Crede hit 30 homers his last full season ('06). The only reason Fields got the job was because of Crede's injury. And if it's his job to lose, why was he playing the outfield towards the end of the season? As has been mentioned, Crede is a much better defensive 3rd baseman that Fields. And with the uncertainty of the pitching staff this season, the last thing you want is to be giving teams extra outs by putting in a sub-standard defensive 3rd baseman based solely on the fact that he hits homeruns. I'm not saying that Crede shouldn't be traded, but if he's on the roster when the season starts, he should be the starter. Edited March 11, 2008 by spawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(spawn @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 11:34 AM) Crede hit 30 homers his last full season ('06). The only reason Fields got the job was because of Crede's injury. And if it's his job to lose, why was he playing the outfield towards the end of the season? As has been mentioned, Crede is a much better defensive 3rd baseman that Fields. And with the uncertainty of the pitching staff this season, the last thing you want is to be giving teams extra outs by putting in a sub-standard defensive 3rd baseman based solely on the fact that he hits homeruns. I'm not saying that Crede shouldn't be traded, but if he's on the roster when the season starts, he should be the starter. He was. He hasn't shown, at least to this point, that he still is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Josh not improving off his 08 numbers would be unexpected. I, for one, have always said that he is not a lock to be good or as good as last year or to improve. And he simply isn't. He needs to prove he can hit good fastballs, hard fastballs, consistently. That said, he should be better than Crede as Crede isn't that good and he's coming off back surgery, but neither one of these guys is a safe bet for anything, although I for one think it's obvious that Fields should start and Crede should be dealt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 10:45 AM) In over 540 AB's, and as a 28 year old. Fields hit 23 HR's in 373 AB's, as a 24 year old. There is no reason at all to think Joe will ever have a better season than he did in 06, at least at this point. Josh not improving off his 08 numbers would be unexpected. Have you ever heard of the so called sophomore slump? The reason it has been given that nickname is because it happens so often. Josh not improving this year would not be a surprise at all. Edited March 11, 2008 by YASNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 11:04 AM) So are you saying Crede should stay because of what happens to other players? I said nothing of the sort. You made an assumption that Fields would improve this year, if I read your post correctly. I pointed out that it is should not be assumed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 05:04 PM) So are you saying Crede should stay because of what happens to other players? You can not just assume Josh Fields will get better. We can all hope he does, but I have heard of the sophmore jinx also plus sometime you see the flash in pan player do good in his first year and slip from there. However, can we all agree that we hope Fields does better and improves on his batting eye so we don't see the K's pile up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 If you want the best player on the field in 2008, start Joe Crede. I'll go ahead and rank them equal at the plate but Joe D is far superior. He makes people around him better Pitcher, SS, 2B and 1B all look better defensively with Joe on the diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 12:34 PM) You can not just assume Josh Fields will get better. We can all hope he does, but I have heard of the sophmore jinx also plus sometime you see the flash in pan player do good in his first year and slip from there. However, can we all agree that we hope Fields does better and improves on his batting eye so we don't see the K's pile up? Exactly. When Crede was 24 he hit 12 homers in 200 AB and hit over .280. Fields hit with about the same power, but less average and a little less with the glove and a lot less contact. If you think Crede sucks and Fields being 24 is a lock to improve, you aren't being consistent. Crede is gone next year probably no matter what. What should be considered right now is who gives the White Sox the best chance to win in 2008. Initially, if Crede is healthy, he should be the choice. If he faulters, or the Sox fall out of contention then you can give him away and let Fields take over. Ron Kittle hit 35 homers as a rookie. He never hit 35 in a season again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 11:39 AM) Exactly. When Crede was 24 he hit 12 homers in 200 AB and hit over .280. Fields hit with about the same power, but less average and a little less with the glove and a lot less contact. If you think Crede sucks and Fields being 24 is a lock to improve, you aren't being consistent. Crede is gone next year probably no matter what. What should be considered right now is who gives the White Sox the best chance to win in 2008. Initially, if Crede is healthy, he should be the choice. If he faulters, or the Sox fall out of contention then you can give him away and let Fields take over. Ron Kittle hit 35 homers as a rookie. He never hit 35 in a season again. Not exactly. I'd say what should be considered is whether the supposed "decrease" from Crede to Fields this year is worth hindering Fields' development. In all reality, how much is Crede's performance over Fields going to increase our chances this season? Not very much if you ask me. It's not worth hindering our future over. No matter what some people may think, another year in AAA will hinder Fields' development, no question about it. Given the current state of the Sox, it's more valuable to the organization to continue Fields' development. 3B is not a critical point in the Sox success this upcoming season. Joe Crede won't win us the division. Edited March 11, 2008 by sircaffey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Not exactly. I'd say what should be considered is whether the supposed "decrease" from Crede to Fields this year is worth hindering Fields' development. In all reality, how much is Crede's performance over Fields going to increase our chances this season? Not very much if you ask me. It's not worth hindering our future over. No matter what some people may think, another year in AAA will hinder Fields' development, no question about it. Given the current state of the Sox, it's more valuable to the organization to continue Fields' development. 3B is not a critical point in the Sox success this upcoming season. Joe Crede won't win us the division. What is the Sox current status? 0-0 right? Why are people worried about hindering Fields development? Shouldn't we be more worried about winning the division and league in 2008? The fact is, Joe Crede will help us win the division, Josh Fields is just another piece of the puzzle that will hinder the sox chances of winning in '08. They are already trying to develop several young players. We have a better player at 3b now, why confuse the matter. Crede should and will start (if he's still on the tea0m and Josh should go to AAA. He will "develop" fine in AAA. Everybody preaches about pitching. Well, Crede makes the pitchers better by taking away hits, starting DP's and frankely making less errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 01:29 PM) What is the Sox current status? 0-0 right? Why are people worried about hindering Fields development? Shouldn't we be more worried about winning the division and league in 2008? The fact is, Joe Crede will help us win the division, Josh Fields is just another piece of the puzzle that will hinder the sox chances of winning in '08. They are already trying to develop several young players. We have a better player at 3b now, why confuse the matter. Crede should and will start (if he's still on the tea0m and Josh should go to AAA. He will "develop" fine in AAA. Everybody preaches about pitching. Well, Crede makes the pitchers better by taking away hits, starting DP's and frankely making less errors. Wow so now Fields will hinder the sox from winning. Who are these young players. The only one that looks to start is Owens. The rest will be in AAA or bench fodder as it looks. How is he going to develop in AAA. Feast on the crappy pitching of the International League. The same league that allowed Brian Anderson to hit 300 or better. Sure he can learn all sorts of bad things there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Neither Fields nor Crede are locks for anything. Fields is a rookie, basically, and he has some holes in his hitting to adjust. Crede is coming off surgery and has a really inconsistent offensive track record - which Crede is the real one? Late 05 into 06, or 04 into 05? So what is actually known? --IF healthy, Crede is the better defender. --Fields is now and will be for some time, a lot cheaper --Crede has an agent who will 99.99999% take his client to free agency after 2008 Those are the knowns. So considering all the unknowns, the knowns seem to favor Fields. I'll take Fields. BUT, if Crede truly cannot net even a Jonathon Sanchez type guy in trade, I can see why they might not want to just give him away. Fields will not suffer irreperable harm by going to Charlotte to work on a few things. And it gives Crede a chance to get back used to major league pitching, so that he can be traded near the deadline. If KW can get something good for Crede in ST, do it. If not, play him out, and trade him at the deadline. That's my take anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 01:37 PM) Wow so now Fields will hinder the sox from winning. Who are these young players. The only one that looks to start is Owens. The rest will be in AAA or bench fodder as it looks. How is he going to develop in AAA. Feast on the crappy pitching of the International League. The same league that allowed Brian Anderson to hit 300 or better. Sure he can learn all sorts of bad things there. He can work on shortening his stroke. I'm surprised you think exposure to Greg Walker is good for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 01:41 PM) He can work on shortening his stroke. I'm surprised you think exposure to Greg Walker is good for him. Sure because when I think about shortening the stroke, the whitesox minor leagues come to mind. They have produced many a short and quick swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 01:42 PM) Sure because when I think about shortening the stroke, the whitesox minor leagues come to mind. They have produced many a short and quick swing. Don't you say Walker tries to make everyone swing for the fences? I believe "lift and pull" is the term you use. They actually have some new instructors in the minor leagues this season. Joe McEwing I believe is the Charlotte hitting coach. Edited March 11, 2008 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Wow so now Fields will hinder the sox from winning. Who are these young players. The only one that looks to start is Owens. The rest will be in AAA or bench fodder as it looks. How is he going to develop in AAA. Feast on the crappy pitching of the International League. The same league that allowed Brian Anderson to hit 300 or better. Sure he can learn all sorts of bad things there. Not really to concerned with his hitting, but I'm pretty sure fielding a ground ball in AAA is the same as in the majors. He needs lots of work on that. They have other youngs guys...danks, floyd, quentin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Fields won't gain anything by going to the minors. His continued development has to come by getting used to world class fastballs. He's not going to see that in the minors. He even stated in the paper that his struggles now is due in part to not being used to the 95-96 mph heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 01:46 PM) Don't you say Walker tries to make everyone swing for the fences? I believe "lift and pull" is the term you use. They actually have some new instructors in the minor leagues this season. Joe McEwing I believe is the Charlotte hitting coach. How many long looping swings have come up from the minors. The small park in Charlotte plays like a bandbox, and with the crappy competition a lot of bad habits get by there, and get exposed in the majors. When Fields comes up maybe he can bring McEwing with him. Hell lets send Uribe down as well. We can work on shortening the tornado twist lift and pull special he uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Fields won't gain anything by going to the minors. His continued development has to come by getting used to world class fastballs. He's not going to see that in the minors. He even stated in the paper that his struggles now is due in part to not being used to the 95-96 mph heat. His D will develop. Why do you think Crede is still on the team. Fields can't play 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 06:56 PM) His D will develop. Why do you think Crede is still on the team. Fields can't play 3B. Fields D is not that bad, especially when you consider a 2b/SS combo of Uribe/Cabrera is above average. I'd much rather have Fields dominant bat against LHP in the lineup, when that's a huge weakness on our team, than Crede on the team and Fields in the minor. The fact it's even a consideration just speaks of the pathetic personnel decisions this team has been making over the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 01:56 PM) His D will develop. Why do you think Crede is still on the team. Fields can't play 3B. Crede is on the team because people are not lining up for a mediocre offensive guy who just missed a season with a bad back thats a FA with Boras as an agent. If he was good and healthy he would of been moved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Because his value is insanely low, and Williams can't find any takers. No, if Fields was better, he would be starting. Crede will be starting because Fields is not ready for everyday play at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Fields D is not that bad, especially when you consider a 2b/SS combo of Uribe/Cabrera is above average. I'd much rather have Fields dominant bat against LHP in the lineup, when that's a huge weakness on our team, than Crede on the team and Fields in the minor. The fact it's even a consideration just speaks of the pathetic personnel decisions this team has been making over the past few years. Fields was awful at 3B. He blew more then a couple games at 3b last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 11, 2008 -> 02:08 PM) No, if Fields was better, he would be starting. Crede will be starting because Fields is not ready for everyday play at 3B. Wonderful analysis here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Wonderful analysis here. A simple statement. Sometimes it's the only way to be very clear. Start the better player, it's not a very difficult decision for Ozzie and the coaches to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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