CREDE CREDE CREDE

[almagest]

This organization had no problem trying to put him in LF last year. How hard would it be to start working him in at first. And who said anything about putting Crede at first?

 

The organization also has no plans to play Fields in left field this year. That's either a knock against his defense there (which isn't a good sign since LF is considered one of the easier positions to play), or yet another sign that Crede's gone. Also, my original point was that if defense is such a major consideration, why play Fields at first? He's a third baseman, and undoubtedly will be worse defensively at first than Konerko, at least for a little while. He'll also most likely not put up the same offensive numbers.

 

I think I'm probably one of Crede's biggest fans because of his defense and decent hitting.

 

Myth. Crede has had exactly 1.5 (2002 and 2006) seasons where he's produced at or slightly above the expected level for a MLB third baseman offensively. Every other year, he's been mediocre ('00, '03, '05) to putrid ('01, '04, '07).

Edited February 26, 2008 by almagest

[WCSox]

This organization had no problem trying to put him in LF last year. How hard would it be to start working him in at first. And who said anything about putting Crede at first?

 

I'm still not convinced that Fields can't be an every-day LF. If Carlos f'n Lee could do it without becoming a massive defensive liability, I don't see why Fields couldn't. And I imagine that a guy who has the arm strength to play 3B could probably play RF as well. Dye to DH after Thome's contract gets bought out this winter?

Edited February 26, 2008 by WCSox

[Balta1701]

I'm still not convinced that Fields can't be an every-day LF. If Carlos f'n Lee could do it without becoming a massive defensive liability, I don't see why Fields couldn't. And I imagine that a guy who has the arm strength to play 3B could probably play RF as well. Dye to DH after Thome's contract gets bought out this winter?

Josh Fields at 3b and Carlos Quentin in LF, both making the league minimum, is more valuable, by a long shot, than Josh Fields in LF and Joe Crede at 3rd base with Joe making $10 mil a year.

[WCSox]

Josh Fields at 3b and Carlos Quentin in LF, both making the league minimum, is more valuable, by a long shot, than Josh Fields in LF and Joe Crede at 3rd base with Joe making $10 mil a year.

 

I absolutely agree. I wasn't advocating that the Sox give Crede and his chronic back problems a contract extension. My point was that Fields could probably play both corner infield and outfield positions, and that versatility is an asset for a guy with 30-HR power.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I think I'm probably one of Crede's biggest fans because of his defense and decent hitting. I still think defense and pitching are the keys to winning. however, given the fact the Boras is the agent and the price he will command, I'm ready to begin the Fields era. Realism is more important than getting attached to a player.

 

I am a White Sox and baseball fan. As much as you want to get attached to a player, the improvement of the team is the most important aspect. IMHO

I have to agree. Its not that Fields is or may be better - I think thats a big question mark. Its that Fields looks like he will be a very good hitter, and will be cheap for years to come. Crede is a great defender, but, the rest of his future is all question marks - is he signable, and at what salary? Is his back healthy? Which hitter is the true Crede - the very good one from 2nd half 2005 through 2006, or the mediocre one from 2004 to early 2005? And is his brief 2007 performance even worth considering?

 

Too many questions. My one official jersey is a Crede, and I wear it proudly. But unless some bizarre set of circumstances comes up, I think we are at the beginning of the Fields era.

 

[ptatc]

Myth. Crede has had exactly 1.5 (2002 and 2006) seasons where he's produced at or slightly above the expected level for a MLB third baseman offensively. Every other year, he's been mediocre ('00, '03, '05) to putrid ('01, '04, '07).

 

1.5 good years and 3 mediocre years vs. 2 putrid years. (2007 doesn't count he only played about 1/4 of the season). That sounds decent to me which is what I said he was.

[witesoxfan]

Sorry, but Paulie does not stretch for the ball. I never said he didn't hit clutch home runs, I said that these days they are far and few between. Yes he is a good player, I just don't see in him what alot of other people do. People often get caught up on stats hr's rbi's ect.ect when determining a players worth. I look at all aspects of his game and I just don't see how the sun rises and sets with Paulie in so many peoples minds. This organization is kidding itself if they think this team will be able to compete in this division. They are banking on three unproven pitchers to fill out the rotation. Paulie's trade value is high right now and could go along way to fortify our minor league system. The thought of Fields going back to AAA is ridiculous, as is the thought of letting Crede get away.

 

The thought of letting Crede go isn't ridiculous, because it would happen at the end of the year anyways.

 

Taking the Crede glasses off would be good. Kenny is looking to do everything he can to get Crede moved, because he doesn't want to send Fields down to AAA, he's not going to trade Konerko; that leaves Crede as the odd man out, and, coincidentally, he only has one year left on his deal and his agent is Scott Boras.

 

Crede's a goner

[southsideirish71]

I think I'm probably one of Crede's biggest fans because of his defense and decent hitting. I still think defense and pitching are the keys to winning. however, given the fact the Boras is the agent and the price he will command, I'm ready to begin the Fields era. Realism is more important than getting attached to a player.

 

I am a White Sox and baseball fan. As much as you want to get attached to a player, the improvement of the team is the most important aspect. IMHO

 

We all get attached to players. For me Robin Ventura, Jack McDowell and Frank Thomas were all players that I never thought would be anything but a player on the sox. Its hard, especially for the home grown products to watch them leave. In the end we will see players come and go. For every player lost, we will find another favorite player and a new hero. Its part of being a modern day baseball fan with free agency. You show realism and understand that even though you dont want the player to go, that they will.

[almagest]

1.5 good years and 3 mediocre years vs. 2 putrid years. (2007 doesn't count he only played about 1/4 of the season). That sounds decent to me which is what I said he was.

 

I disagree. Good and putrid essentially cancel out. Mediocre != good, and mediocre != decent. Mediocre == "well, at least he's not Timo Perez."

[The Ginger Kid]

Like Konerko said, they need to get this resolved soon.

[greg775]

Do you know what is difficult, trying to convince the Crede's fanboys on this site that their guy is going to move.

 

I am a fanboy of Crede and I could see him being moved. Somebody's going to get a great third baseman and what are we going to get in return at this point?

I know ... he's going to leave anyway.

That still doesn't mean if we had a great GM we couldn't get some good players for Crede if he proves he's healthy this spring. We should not, but will, give him away I predict.

I fully expect us to get 2 Class A players for him and that would be a shame.

Crede is a great third baseman. Sorry that's what I believe.

Hope Kenny Proves me wrong.

[Balta1701]

Like Konerko said, they need to get this resolved soon.

On that we agree. This is going to be one of those things that just saps morale as time drags on and the questions keep coming.

[witesoxfan]

I am a fanboy of Crede and I could see him being moved. Somebody's going to get a great third baseman and what are we going to get in return at this point?

I know ... he's going to leave anyway.

That still doesn't mean if we had a great GM we couldn't get some good players for Crede if he proves he's healthy this spring. We should not, but will, give him away I predict.

I fully expect us to get 2 Class A players for him and that would be a shame.

Crede is a great third baseman. Sorry that's what I believe.

Hope Kenny Proves me wrong.

 

Crede himself was a Class A player at one time. Just sayin

[almagest]

Crede is a great third baseman. Sorry that's what I believe.

 

Why do you believe he is? What evidence is there that points to Crede being on the level of, say, Scott Rolen in his prime?

[Balta1701]

Crede himself was a Class A player at one time. Just sayin

Given that right now we actually have more guys than we can play at several major league positions, and our pitching staff has several guys who are running out of options, I wouldn't mind at all if we got back minor leaguers for Crede. At least there'd be some chance of them developing into something useful a couple years down the road when we have more need of people to fill slots. For now we at least need a year or two to see what we have in the guys we just picked up.

[greg775]

Why do you believe he is? What evidence is there that points to Crede being on the level of, say, Scott Rolen in his prime

 

I just think he's a great fielder and was key in the Sox winning it all.

Since then he's been hurt. I still think he is a great third baseman.

[witesoxfan]

I just think he's a great fielder and was key in the Sox winning it all.

Since then he's been hurt. I still think he is a great third baseman.

 

The pitching was the key to the Sox winning it all. That, and a s***load of luck and everyone playing well.

[Pants Rowland]

The pitching was the key to the Sox winning it all. That, and a s***load of luck and everyone playing well.

 

I do not know if he is "great" but he is definitely a gamer. Without his performance in the 2005 postseason, I am not sure the Sox win it all. You can say that about a lot of individual plays, and maybe about Uribe's defense, but Crede's defense was impeccable and his offense was timely throughout the postseason. The starters were outstanding, but the defense helped that quite a bit as well.

[bmags]

The pitching was the key to the Sox winning it all. That, and a s***load of luck and everyone playing well.

 

Yes, okay, right. But we DID have quite a bit of 'contact' pitchers, and so Crede's defense in '05 was an important part of that pitching, as was Rowand in Center and Uribe at SS.

 

Why do we need to undercut Crede so severely? Yes, he was below avg. offensively in OBP for most of his years. But a lot of fans think he's great because he was ours during a championship run. Seeing the reality isn't that important. We had great pitching. We had great defense. And we had great power. Joe Crede helped in all three of those categories. He was ours then. He's about to be gone soon. People will miss him.

 

So who cares, they'll soon learn to love Fields. No use breaking down memories. I'll choose to forget seeing crede weakly pop up to third on a looping swing, for him hitting the game winning home run in the 10th against cleveland. I'll miss him. He created a lot of memories for me.

[witesoxfan]

I don't mean to demean Crede at all...he played a huge part in 2005, and his homer off Riske, double off Escobar, homer off Escobar, and his homer off Oswalt were huge down the stretch, and he the man. But so was Rowand in CF, Uribe at short, and the offense absolutely clicked in the postseason. Podsednik and Konerko came up absolutely huge in the postseason too offensively, and lest we forget Geoff Blum.

 

The team itself was the reason they won, but people want to give a ton of credit to Crede for it; quite frankly, if you take any one piece of that team out of the puzzle, they probably don't make the playoffs and thus don't make the World Series. It was the ultimate team effort.

 

So, yeah, Crede was huge; so was everyone else.

[iamshack]

Well, from the time Crede came back from the hand injury he suffered in Oakland until the beginning of 07', Crede was an absolute stud with RISP. Rip on his OBP all you want, but if he's going to hit that way with RISP, I could care less how many walks he takes. And that's where is offensive value lies.

 

If he can come back and produce like that again, he'll be a heck of a player. If not, he's a great defensive 3b with some pop.

[witesoxfan]

Well, from the time Crede came back from the hand injury he suffered in Oakland until the beginning of 07', Crede was an absolute stud with RISP. Rip on his OBP all you want, but if he's going to hit that way with RISP, I could care less how many walks he takes. And that's where is offensive value lies.

 

If he can come back and produce like that again, he'll be a heck of a player. If not, he's a great defensive 3b with some pop.

 

It wasn't just RISP; Crede tore the absolute cover off the ball when he returned from his injury. In September and the postseason, he put up a .333/.368/.676/1.044 line including almost 50% of his hits going for extra bases (17 XBHs (10 HR(!!!)) while he had 36 hits). And that's including a sweet 1 for 9 line in the ALDS while drawing only one walk. So basically, down the stretch and in the two 7 game series he was a stud.

[iamshack]

It wasn't just RISP; Crede tore the absolute cover off the ball when he returned from his injury. In September and the postseason, he put up a .333/.368/.676/1.044 line including almost 50% of his hits going for extra bases (17 XBHs (10 HR(!!!)) while he had 36 hits). And that's including a sweet 1 for 9 line in the ALDS while drawing only one walk. So basically, down the stretch and in the two 7 game series he was a stud.

 

I agree with you, but to satisfy some of our more demanding friends in terms of sample sizes, I included the entire 06' season, in which he hit .343 with RISP and .351 with RISP and 2 outs.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Now, it's REALLY hard to imagine Crede not going to the Giants in the next week or two.

 

1. Vizquel and Durham are banged up and old so they need infield help badly.

 

2. They desperately need pop in that lineup with the catcher Molina penciled in at cleanup.

 

3. They've decided to only keep 11 pitchers and if you look at their rosters, they have a number of good looking young pitchers that they'll have to leave off and the Sox sure could use some young pitching.

 

4. Rowand and Schueler are pushing for Crede and there has been no other team even mentioned recently in connection with interest in Crede. The two teams need each other.

 

Let's hope it gets done very soon. I'd love another quality young pitcher in the Sox system and the Crede era to be over.

[NorthSideSox72]

Now, it's REALLY hard to imagine Crede not going to the Giants in the next week or two.

 

1. Vizquel and Durham are banged up and old so they need infield help badly.

 

2. They desperately need pop in that lineup with the catcher Molina penciled in at cleanup.

 

3. They've decided to only keep 11 pitchers and if you look at their rosters, they have a number of good looking young pitchers that they'll have to leave off and the Sox sure could use some young pitching.

 

4. Rowand and Schueler are pushing for Crede and there has been no other team even mentioned recently in connection with interest in Crede. The two teams need each other.

 

Let's hope it gets done very soon. I'd love another quality young pitcher in the Sox system and the Crede era to be over.

Much as it will make me sad to see Joe go, I think this is right on, and its better for the team overall than keeping him. I just hope the return the Sox get for him is good. It will be minor leaguers in any case - hopefully with some good potential.