LOST!!!!

[Steve9347]

You didn't make an answer; you did what the writers did: shifted a mystery from one place to another.

 

Why are the Others doing what they are doing?

-Because Jacob tells them to.

Why does Jacob tell them to do these things?

...

 

How did Jacob become some kind of demi-god?

-Some woman gave him powers.

So how did she have powers? What was she?

...

 

Why can't Smokey leave the island?

-It's a Rule.

What are the Rules?

...

You can play that with anything.

 

Why does frog DNA help create dinosaurs? - dunno, didn't bother me in Jurassic Park

 

Why does Jack give a s*** about the credibility of a country that turns its back on him all the time? - I dunno, guess it's his character

 

Why was the Gene Simmons character playing drums on Glee last night? f*** if i know.

 

Just move on, who cares. The show is over, and was pretty poor the last season until the final few episodes, and the purgatory was BS. There you go.

[CrimsonWeltall]

You can play that game forever if you wanted to. Why why why why why why why why.

 

No, you can't. Face it, major motivations were unexplained and major elements ended up being completely arbitrary or pointless. The actions of the Others aren't even self-consistent.

 

[StrangeSox]

And you can do it with any program.

 

That's just a copout. Plenty of mystery stories have satisfactory endings and character motives that actually make sense.

[nitetrain8601]

While the ending was satisfying for me, I agree that they left a lot of "important" stuff unanswered. Or they shifted the question, but it still remained a question. Either way, I won't let that ruin the show for me. Now would I ever watch it again knowing that I could've watched the first season and the last season and know the story? No.

[jphat007]

So apparently there is a 14-15 minute 'epilogue' of sorts that shows what happened post jack dying in 'real life'. That's what Michael Emerson just said on the awful awful Attack of the Show. Haha, he's probably going to get in a bunch of trouble for that.

 

Going to be on the DVDs/Blurays

Edited May 26, 2010 by jphat007

[Milkman delivers]

Anyone want to speculate on what might've happened to the characters that were still alive after Jack died? Here's my guesses:

 

Frank: Probably either retired from flying so he'd never crash again, or started flying local flights within the continental USA. He was in his 50's, so if he lived a full life he probably died between 20-30 years after Jack.

 

Miles: Probably continued doing his ghost-whisperer gig, but didn't scam people anymore. His character was in his late 20's or early 30's, so if he lived a long life, he probably died between 40-50 years after Jack.

 

Richard: Probably resumed his life under the identity he had while he worked for Mittelos Bioscience. Started aging after Jacob died, so if he lived a full life, he probably died 30-40 years after Jack.

 

Kate: Probably helped reunite Claire with Aaron, and maybe stayed in Claire's and Aaron's lives as an aunt figure to Aaron. Probably ended up in a relationship with Sawyer, except they both really belonged to Jack and Juliette respectively, whom they reunited with in the afterlife. If Kate lived a full life, she probably died between 35-45 years after Jack.

 

Sawyer: Probably ended up living an honest life after leaving the island, because everything that happened on the island changed him for the better. He probably had a change of heart and tried to be a father to Clementine except he probably more than likely didn't have a relationship with Clementine's mother. Probably ended up in a relationship with Kate, except they both really belonged to Juliette and Jack respectively, whom they reunited with in the afterlife. If Sawyer lived a full life, he probably died between 30-40 years after Jack.

 

Claire: More than likely was reunited with Aaron, and with the help of Kate she ended up being a great mother. Probably either took Aaron back to Australia or started a new life in Los Angeles with the settlement money from the original Oceanic 815 flight. If she lived a full life, she probably died between 55-65 years after Jack.

 

Rose & Bernard: More than likely lived the rest of their lives on the island. They probably died between 10-20 years after Jack.

 

Desmond: Probably got off the island thanks to Hurley and reunited with Penelope and Charlie and lived happily ever after. If he lived a full life, Desmond probably died between 30-40 years after Jack.

 

Ben: Probably became the next Richard. It's up in the air if he became ageless like Richard and lived a longer life, or just lived a normal life. If he didn't become ageless for a while, he probably lived a full life and died between 30-40 years after Jack, but if he became ageless like Richard then he might've lived for over a hundred years or more after Jack's death.

 

Hurley: Became the new protector after Jack, so it's unknown how long of a reign on the island he had. Jack's reign was probably only for a day, Jacob's reign was for about 2,000 years, and Mother's reign was unknown. If Hurley decided to live a normal life and find a successor before he died, then Hurley probably died 20-30 years after Jack because he might've been a heart attack victim because of how overweight he was. If he decided to have a long reign as Protector, then it's possible he didn't die until as long as 2,000 years after Jack.

 

Ji Yeon: Was probably raised by Sun's parents. Probably never met Jin's father. Probably lived her entire life in Korea, never really knowing her parents. Probably died between 70-80 years after Jack.

 

Walt: Probably lived a full life. Probably lived most of his life in New York City, raised by his grandmother, went to college, had a family of his own, etc. Probably always wondered what happened to his father, Michael. If Walt lived a full life, he probably died between 60-70 years after Jack.

 

See, this is the difference between the people who liked the finale and those who didn't. Some people like open-ended stories so that they can "decide for themselves" what happened. Others like concrete answers.

 

I am one of the people who enjoy concrete endings. I don't watch a movie or read a book to decide for myself what happens (even if I don't enjoy the way it goes), as I want to know the end to a story.

[SnB]

random question: Why did Widmore bring back Desmond? what possible benefit did he have with him, knowing about his ability w/ electromagnets and all that mumbo jumbo.

[jphat007]

random question: Why did Widmore bring back Desmond? what possible benefit did he have with him, knowing about his ability w/ electromagnets and all that mumbo jumbo.

 

He could go to the heart of the electromagnetism and live through it. I don't think they knew exactly what he could do down there but that was the reason he brought him back.

[SouthsideDon48]

See, this is the difference between the people who liked the finale and those who didn't. Some people like open-ended stories so that they can "decide for themselves" what happened. Others like concrete answers.

 

I am one of the people who enjoy concrete endings. I don't watch a movie or read a book to decide for myself what happens (even if I don't enjoy the way it goes), as I want to know the end to a story.

Hmmmmm, maybe that explains why I loved movies like "the Happening" and most of my friends hated it. :-/

 

Another example is "the Wrestler" with Mickey Rourke. The ending leaves it open to viewers' interpretation over whether Randy the Ram died after he jumped off the turnbuckle in the end. I enjoyed the ambiguous ending.

Edited May 27, 2010 by SouthsideDon48

[Milkman delivers]

Hmmmmm, maybe that explains why I loved movies like "the Happening" and most of my friends hated it. :-/

 

Another example is "the Wrestler" with Mickey Rourke. The ending leaves it open to viewers' interpretation over whether Randy the Ram died after he jumped off the turnbuckle in the end. I enjoyed the ambiguous ending.

 

Yeah, you'd be the only person on Earth who liked The Happening. And there wasn't much ambiguity with The Wrestler. He died.

[Brian]

Yeah, you'd be the only person on Earth who liked The Happening. And there wasn't much ambiguity with The Wrestler. He died.

 

What he means is they just go to black. No showing paramedics around him with the heart monitor flat lining and such.

 

I appreciate movies and shows that don't treat me like an idiot. I get enough of that at home and work.

[Milkman delivers]

What he means is they just go to black. No showing paramedics around him with the heart monitor flat lining and such.

 

I appreciate movies and shows that don't treat me like an idiot. I get enough of that at home and work.

 

I understand what he meant, but it was pretty obvious as you say. I don't think the finale for Lost was quite so obvious.

[southsider2k5]

At the end of the day, I think one thing is obvious. We will see spinoffs. That is the one perfect explanation for all of the unanswered questions.

[kev211]

I know this is a wall of text, but its a really awesome read.

 

I found this on a digg comment, and its in a few other places but supposedly this is from a guy who worked with bad robot and actually wrote for the show.

 

Edit: found the link to the original one http://lostmediamentions.blogspot.com/2010...-on-finale.html

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

 

First ...

The Island:

 

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

 

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

 

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

 

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

 

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

 

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

 

Now...

 

Sideways World:

 

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

 

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

 

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

 

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

 

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

 

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

 

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

 

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

 

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

 

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Edited May 27, 2010 by kev211

[kev211]

The best part of that ^ is this

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

 

Obviously theres no way of knowing if thats true or not, but if it is that's really cool.

Edited May 27, 2010 by kev211

[CrimsonWeltall]

Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB.

 

Jacob planned to kill MIB? If the only way that is possible is with a EM-immune person like Desmond, how did he expect Dharma to do anything? Any why would the Others KILL the Dharma people?

 

MIB corrupted Ben? How? Ben only ever took orders from Jacob via Richard.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Obviously theres no way of knowing if thats true or not, but if it is that's really cool.

 

Neither Penny nor Juliet were season 1 characters.

 

And Boone and Shannon reallllllly shouldn't have been there.

[Steve9347]

At the end of the day, I think one thing is obvious. We will see spinoffs. That is the one perfect explanation for all of the unanswered questions.

I highly doubt that.

 

Although, I must have told my wife 18 times that I'd watch the s*** out of a Miles/Sawyer cop show based on their characters in Purgatory.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Steve9347

[CrimsonWeltall]

I highly doubt that.

 

Although, I must have told my wife 18 times that I'd watch the s*** out of a Miles/Sawyer cop show based on their characters in Purgatory.

 

Agreed. With Lapidus as Police Chief!

[Jenksismyhero]

Jacob planned to kill MIB? If the only way that is possible is with a EM-immune person like Desmond, how did he expect Dharma to do anything? Any why would the Others KILL the Dharma people?

 

MIB corrupted Ben? How? Ben only ever took orders from Jacob via Richard.

 

Yeah the first part only partly makes sense, since the others and dharma seemed to have been at war numerous times throughout the island history we're given. EDIT: but for all we know that's what Jacob wanted, so that still fits.

 

And yeah, I can buy that MIB corrupted Ben. He saw ghosts (like of his mother) which fed his hatred of his dad/dharma, which got the ball rolling on the purge.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Jenksismybitch

[Chisoxfn]

Jacob planned to kill MIB? If the only way that is possible is with a EM-immune person like Desmond, how did he expect Dharma to do anything? Any why would the Others KILL the Dharma people?

 

MIB corrupted Ben? How? Ben only ever took orders from Jacob via Richard.

That was the one thing that stood out to me. I could see it if Ben didn't take his orders from Richard.

[Jenksismyhero]

MIB also corrupted Ben into killing Jacob.

[fathom]

I still don't believe that people watched this show for the character aspect of it. The mystery was always the intriguing part. For example, when the Others kidnapped Walt, people were asking why they kidnapped him with regards to why is he so special. I'm more accepting of the finale now than I was immediately after watching it, but I can't help but think of all the time that seems to have been wasted on meaningless events on this show. They should have just shown Penny and Juliet walking around in tank tops, and I would have been fine with that.

[Controlled Chaos]

At the end of the day, I think one thing is obvious. We will see spinoffs. That is the one perfect explanation for all of the unanswered questions.

The obvious thing to me is we all got mind-f***ed for 6 years. Some of us simply were satisfied with the ride and others are looking to get cuddled now that it's over. It's all good...everyone's different.

[Chisoxfn]

I will say this though, after reading that write-up, it put everything into much better perspective to me. And the idea is definitely plausible and makes a s***load of sense.