Cleats67 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Now that Johan Santana is almost officially out of our hair after the Mets and Twins agreed to a trade, I can only hope that KW goes hard after Coco Crisp from the Red Sox, who was part of their offer for Johan. If there is some way he can now acquire Crisp, allows you to play Swisher in his natural position of left field and we get the the CF/Leadoff Hitter we really need. If he can pull this off, then our offseason has been a major success. Imagine the lineup if Crisp comes to the Southside! I would feel very good about our chances if he can make just this one more move.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Yeah thats just what we need in the leadoff spot... A .330 OBP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 That would be one crowded outfield... As for the "what would we give up" the Red Sox more than likely would be looking at it as a salary dump and I believe Mike MacDougal would do the trick. Not that I recommend it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 QUOTE(AngelasDaddy0427 @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 06:21 PM) Yeah thats just what we need in the leadoff spot... A .330 OBP... but hes fast ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear_brian Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 It is amazing that a number of people in this forum seem so totally down on Crisp. He would provide outstanding defense in center (something that it does not appear - barring some miraculous rejuvenation with Brian Anderson - we will have this year), would give us a series of good lineup options as a switch hitter, is a lifetime .280 hitter and would steal somewhere between 25 and 30 bases. He has been playing through an injury for the last year or so, and can probably be expected to do better than last year. If we are going for it this year, then we had better shore up the outfield defense like our competition - Tigers with Granderson and Cleveland with Sizemore. Is everybody so hell bent on OBP and OPS that they lose sight of the other factors needed for a successful ballclub? There have been numerous championship teams in baseball history that sacrificed some offense for defense. And a .280 lifetime is nothing to sneeze at. We could still keep Quentin and use him to spell Dye, Swisher and Konerko (Swisher playing first), where he would still get a goodly number of at bats. I just don't see the problem with going after Coco ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 QUOTE(daa84 @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 11:38 PM) but hes fast ! Imagine how quickly he can return to the bench after he Ks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 11:18 PM) 2.How could the Sox even acquire him? What do they have to give up? We could have waited & traded Aardsma for him Edited January 29, 2008 by sox-r-us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 237 G 939 AB .266/.324/.383 /.708 Why not just go with a Dye7 - Swisher8 - Quentin9 outfield? Why must there be a little b**** slap hitter in CF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 03:56 PM) Why not just go with a Dye7 - Swisher8 - Quentin9 outfield? Why must there be a little b**** slap hitter in CF? And if there must be one...why can't we use the $400,000 one we already have that costs us 0 players to acquire (and who is a better base stealer?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 06:56 PM) 237 G 939 AB .266/.324/.383 /.708 Why not just go with a Dye7 - Swisher8 - Quentin9 outfield? Why must there be a little b**** slap hitter in CF? lol i find it so funny that we have FINALLY cut the waste out of the lineup in uribe, pods, and even erstad and owens, and people are still clamoring to find a fit for a guy like owens or crisp....if we want to have crisp on the bench, im fine with that as long as we are able to swap bad contract bench guys like uribe or crede for crisp, that way you swap a 5 mil contract for a 5 mil contract, but are sacrificing good D of the bench at one position for good D off the bench at another (CF, where we need the D) thats an ok deal, but its unlikely to improve our team a whole lot what is likely to improve our team a whole lot is getting cabreras .340 obp in the lineup over uribes .280, swishers .380 over pods/erstad/whoevers .320 and quentin's potential .350-.360 over owens .310-.330 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Paw Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 why trade for quentin if ur gonna go after crisp ah but thats wat i thot before the o-cab deal too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) I am not a huge fan of Crisp, but I am wondering why so many people are quick to hand Quentin a starting position in LF if they want to win now. I do not think Crisp is the answer to any prayers, but a lineup with Quentin, Richar and Fields relies heavily on youth that is not 100% proven to perform. A veteran CF with solid defense and adequate ability to handle the bat does not sound terrible to me. I do not know if Crisp is the answer, but defensively it would be nice to see him in CF, Swisher in LF and Dye in RF. Maybe CQ is the fourth OF or maybe he starts the season at Charlotte to get to 100%. I think Fields can handle himself fine in his sophomore season and you can take a lot of pressure off of Richar by putting him and Crisp at 8th or 9th in the order, have Swisher lead off and OCab bat 2nd. Swisher is not the ideal leadoff hitter, but he gets on base and has some pop at the top of the order. Edited January 30, 2008 by Pants Rowland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Pants Rowland @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 06:11 PM) I am not a huge fan of Crisp, but I am wondering why so many people are quick to hand Quentin a starting position in LF if they want to win now. I do not think Crisp is the answer to any prayers, but a lineup with Quentin, Richar and Fields relies heavily on youth that is not 100% proven to perform. A veteran CF with solid defense and adequate ability to handle the bat does not sound terrible to me. I do not know if Crisp is the answer, but defensively it would be nice to see him in CF, Swisher in LF and Dye in RF. Maybe CQ is the fourth OF or maybe he starts the season at Charlotte to get to 100%. I think Fields can handle himself fine in his sophomore season and you can take a lot of pressure off of Richar by putting him and Crisp at 8th or 9th in the order, have Swisher lead off and OCab bat 2nd. Swisher is not the ideal leadoff hitter, but he gets on base and has some pop at the top of the order. Or you could just save the financial/personnel resources that it would take to acquire/pay a guy like crisp and go with Dye/Swisher/Quentin. This way you limit the amount of s***ty little slap hitters/low OBP guys in your lineup and maximize the number of potential impact bats while not losing a ton defensively (at least this way you're getting your best defensive corner OF on the field in Quentin.) And I wouldn't just hand Quentin the LF job . . . I'd hand him the RF job, JD can take left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 There's absolutely no reason to not let Quentin play LF or RF. We traded one of the few good offensive prospects in our barren minor league system for him. It'd be a waste to let him sit on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 700 Outfielders already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Soxfest @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 06:12 PM) 700 Outfielders already! Well, it works for the Angels, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 08:14 PM) Well, it works for the Angels, right? haha true, but we can't even have ours play DH regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 It is amazing that a number of people in this forum seem so totally down on Crisp. He would provide outstanding defense in center (something that it does not appear - barring some miraculous rejuvenation with Brian Anderson - we will have this year), would give us a series of good lineup options as a switch hitter, is a lifetime .280 hitter and would steal somewhere between 25 and 30 bases. He has been playing through an injury for the last year or so, and can probably be expected to do better than last year. If we are going for it this year, then we had better shore up the outfield defense like our competition - Tigers with Granderson and Cleveland with Sizemore. Is everybody so hell bent on OBP and OPS that they lose sight of the other factors needed for a successful ballclub? There have been numerous championship teams in baseball history that sacrificed some offense for defense. And a .280 lifetime is nothing to sneeze at. We could still keep Quentin and use him to spell Dye, Swisher and Konerko (Swisher playing first), where he would still get a goodly number of at bats. I just don't see the problem with going after Coco ... I agree. I'm not looking to get him, but if he was acquired by the Sox I would definitely be excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 06:38 PM) Or you could just save the financial/personnel resources that it would take to acquire/pay a guy like crisp and go with Dye/Swisher/Quentin. This way you limit the amount of s***ty little slap hitters/low OBP guys in your lineup and maximize the number of potential impact bats while not losing a ton defensively (at least this way you're getting your best defensive corner OF on the field in Quentin.) And I wouldn't just hand Quentin the LF job . . . I'd hand him the RF job, JD can take left. While you don't like Crisp with a .330 OBP, are you advocating having Orlando Cabrera and his lifetime .321 OBP leading off? Quentin appears to be a guy who could be good, but at this stage in his major league career, his offense has been a lot like Brian Anderson's, a guy half this board would give away. Crisp's last 2 seasons haven't been stellar, but he was pretty good the years before that when he was healthy. I think Swisher in CF full time could turn into a disaster. Who knows, if Boston really wants to move Crisp, maybe the Sox could acquire him in a 3 way trade for one or 2 of their spare parts. I think he's a much better player than Owens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 06:54 PM) While you don't like Crisp with a .330 OBP, are you advocating having Orlando Cabrera and his lifetime .321 OBP leading off? Quentin appears to be a guy who could be good, but at this stage in his major league career, his offense has been a lot like Brian Anderson's, a guy half this board would give away. For what stretch in the big leagues did Anderson put up an .870 OPS and 9 home runs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 08:56 PM) For what stretch in the big leagues did Anderson put up an .870 OPS and 9 home runs? I'm looking at the entire picture. I could find stretches where just about everyone played well. If you stack up Septembers you would wonder how anyone could think Cabrera is an upgrade over Uribe. Go ahead and ignore the bad, but its there. Quentin is not a sure thing, especially in 2008. I liked the Quentin trade, but to think he's suddenly going to do what he did in the minors is ridiculous. BTW, in July and August of 2006 you may be surprised to know Anderson hit over .300 with an OPS over .800 Edited January 30, 2008 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 08:54 PM) While you don't like Crisp with a .330 OBP, are you advocating having Orlando Cabrera and his lifetime .321 OBP leading off? Quentin appears to be a guy who could be good, but at this stage in his major league career, his offense has been a lot like Brian Anderson's, a guy half this board would give away. Crisp's last 2 seasons haven't been stellar, but he was pretty good the years before that when he was healthy. I think Swisher in CF full time could turn into a disaster. Who knows, if Boston really wants to move Crisp, maybe the Sox could acquire him in a 3 way trade for one or 2 of their spare parts. I think he's a much better player than Owens. If the Choice is between Cabrera - Swisher - Thome, Owens - Cabrera - Thome and Crisp - Cabrera - Thome I'll take the 1st option every time. At least this way you're minimizing the number of low OBP players you have to go through before you get to the real hitters. Adding another low slap hitter to the top of the lineup is going to solve nothing. If there were high OBP option out there for the leadoff spot I'd be all for it but there doesn't seem to be. Cabrera is either going to hit first or second next year, that much is apparent. Would you really be comfortable with a lineup that started with Crisp and Cabrera? That's an awful lot of hooey before the good stuff. Quentin may not be a proven commodity but his offensive upside and defensive abilities make him a better choice for an outfield spot than either of Crisp or Owens, IMO. I just have a problem with trading away any young talent for a guy like Crisp who has been a wretched offensive player for 2 full seasons now and praying that he returns to the player he was 3 years ago seems (everyone blames his s***ty play last year on a wrist injury yet there's no standard excuse for his '06 performance.) There's probably better ways to spend the $11M or so he's due over the next 2 years. I'm also wondering how many of the people who think Swisher will be a disaster in CF have actually seen him play the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(daa84 @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 06:04 PM) lol i find it so funny that we have FINALLY cut the waste out of the lineup in uribe, pods, and even erstad and owens, and people are still clamoring to find a fit for a guy like owens or crisp....if we want to have crisp on the bench, im fine with that as long as we are able to swap bad contract bench guys like uribe or crede for crisp, that way you swap a 5 mil contract for a 5 mil contract, but are sacrificing good D of the bench at one position for good D off the bench at another (CF, where we need the D) thats an ok deal, but its unlikely to improve our team a whole lot what is likely to improve our team a whole lot is getting cabreras .340 obp in the lineup over uribes .280, swishers .380 over pods/erstad/whoevers .320 and quentin's potential .350-.360 over owens .310-.330 you still need a guy in the mold of crisp or owens at the top of the lineup. Say what you will about the "numbers and OBP" is all that matters but I'll bet if you look at the past WS winners most of them had that type of player at the top. Red Sox: Ellsbury Cards: Eckstein White Sox: Pods Red Sox Damon Marlins: Pierre Angles: Eckstein D-backs: Womack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 09:23 PM) If the Choice is between Cabrera - Swisher - Thome, Owens - Cabrera - Thome and Crisp - Cabrera - Thome I'll take the 1st option every time. At least this way you're minimizing the number of low OBP players you have to go through before you get to the real hitters. Adding another low slap hitter to the top of the lineup is going to solve nothing. If there were high OBP option out there for the leadoff spot I'd be all for it but there doesn't seem to be. Cabrera is either going to hit first or second next year, that much is apparent. Would you really be comfortable with a lineup that started with Crisp and Cabrera? That's an awful lot of hooey before the good stuff. Quentin may not be a proven commodity but his offensive upside and defensive abilities make him a better choice for an outfield spot than either of Crisp or Owens, IMO. I just have a problem with trading away any young talent for a guy like Crisp who has been a wretched offensive player for 2 full seasons now and praying that he returns to the player he was 3 years ago seems (everyone blames his s***ty play last year on a wrist injury yet there's no standard excuse for his '06 performance.) There's probably better ways to spend the $11M or so he's due over the next 2 years. I'm also wondering how many of the people who think Swisher will be a disaster in CF have actually seen him play the position. I've seen him play CF and wasn't impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 29, 2008 -> 09:29 PM) I've seen him play CF and wasn't impressed. I agree. I would prefer to give Anderson another shot as opposed to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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