Now that Santana is Traded To The Mets/ Go for Crisp

[BaseballNick]

Not that I am disappointed in this, but since when has Stone become a "consultant" to Jerry Reinsdorf as opposed to a part-time broadcaster?

 

I'm not sure when that happened, but if Steve Stone is talking, I'm listening. The guy knows his stuff.

[Kalapse]

I'm not sure when that happened, but if Steve Stone is talking, I'm listening. The guy knows his stuff.

He also thought the addition of Erstad was a great one, that he'd bounce back and have a huge year in '07. Oops. Steve Stone has been way off on a lot of players lately.

 

He's also said that he'd never want A-Rod on his team, not because his salary would be a hindrance but because he's not a "winner." He thinks David Eckstein is great baseball player and was pushing for the Sox to give him a lucrative 3 year deal at the beginning of the offseason. (he later signed a very cheap 1 year deal)

[iamshack]

He also thought the addition of Erstad was a great one, that he'd bounce back and have a huge year in '07. Oops. Steve Stone has been way off on a lot of players lately.

 

I think he feels a bit of an obligation to speak "positively" about certain situations as well. If he does indeed have some "consulting" role with the White Sox, whether formal or informal, combined with the fact that he is also employed by them formally in a part-time broadcasting situation, it might be hard to criticize the organization's moves in his role with the Score.

 

Generally, I like what he has to say. But I normally take his comments about specific players or specific acquisitions with a grain of salt...

[Dick Allen]

He also thought the addition of Erstad was a great one, that he'd bounce back and have a huge year in '07. Oops. Steve Stone has been way off on a lot of players lately.

He also thought Masset would be dominating. I do agree with him on Crisp though.

[CanOfCorn]

He also thought Masset would be dominating. I do agree with him on Crisp though.

 

Little early on Masset, don't you think?

[Dick Allen]

Little early on Masset, don't you think?

Not too early on a guy who is out of options and was supposed to be dominating in 2007. Masset has not really been all that good at the minor league level stat-wise. With all the talk last year how Sox pitchers were burned out because of the playoffs, I questioned on this board whether Masset pitching in winter ball would effect his performance during the season. Of course I was laughed at. KW mentioned the other day they think Masset's workload last winter took 4-5 MPH off his fastball. We shall see. I would think he's a longshot right now. He has a lot of problems finding the strike zone.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

Not too early on a guy who is out of options and was supposed to be dominating in 2007. Masset has not really been all that good at the minor league level stat-wise. With all the talk last year how Sox pitchers were burned out because of the playoffs, I questioned on this board whether Masset pitching in winter ball would effect his performance during the season. Of course I was laughed at. KW mentioned the other day they think Masset's workload last winter took 4-5 MPH off his fastball. We shall see. I would think he's a longshot right now. He has a lot of problems finding the strike zone.

 

You sure love to remind everyone when you were/are "right" about something, don't you?

[Steve9347]

I'm actually all about adding Crisp, but I do want to see a lot of Quentin as well.

[Kalapse]

I'm actually all about adding Crisp, but I do want to see a lot of Quentin as well.

Well, we're likely already in for a whole lot of Owens given Ozzie's love for him. If Crisp is added to the roster Quentin moves to 5th on the depth chart, I'm not so sure how much of him we'd actually get to see.

[iamshack]

Well, we're likely already in for a whole lot of Owens given Ozzie's love for him. If Crisp is added to the roster Quentin moves to 5th on the depth chart, I'm not so sure how much of him we'd actually get to see.

 

I disagree. I think adding Crisp solidifies (or at least this is the theory) our leadoff spot and adds great defense in Center. I think Owens can then platoon with Quentin should he not be fully healthy as of OD, with Quentin gradually taking a higher and higher percentage of the ab's. I think Jerry becomes 5th on the depth chart if Crisp is acquired.

 

Kenny stated that he went out to acquire "not a player 'like' Carlos Quentin, but actually 'Carlos Quentin.'" I find it extremely difficult to believe that he would then allow Ozzie to bench Quentin in favor of Owens, at least assuming Quentin reaches full health at some early stage of the season.

 

I'm certainly not in favor of surrendering much to get Crisp- not now anyways- but should we acquire him, I don't believe Quentin is the one that gets pushed back on the depth chart.

 

Edit: I forgot Swish has to actually play the field somewhere...

 

I think any acquisition of Crisp means Owens has to be dealt...

Edited January 31, 2008 by iamshack

[Vance Law]

Well, we're likely already in for a whole lot of Owens given Ozzie's love for him. If Crisp is added to the roster Quentin moves to 5th on the depth chart, I'm not so sure how much of him we'd actually get to see.

 

If we did make the idiotic move of getting Crisp, I've got to imagine Owens in AAA or headed to another team.

[Dick Allen]

You sure love to remind everyone when you were/are "right" about something, don't you?

I don't know if his winter workload had any effect on his 2007 season, I just found it funny that the White Sox use 12 extra games in October has such a profound effect on the entire pitching staff, and then start spouting off about a guy who pitched an extra 20-25 games in November and December. It wasn't consistent. Unless Masset can cut down his walk rate, he can add 10 MPH on his fastball and he will still suck.

[G&T]

I disagree. I think adding Crisp solidifies (or at least this is the theory) our leadoff spot and adds great defense in Center. I think Owens can then platoon with Quentin should he not be fully healthy as of OD, with Quentin gradually taking a higher and higher percentage of the ab's. I think Jerry becomes 5th on the depth chart if Crisp is acquired.

 

Kenny stated that he went out to acquire "not a player 'like' Carlos Quentin, but actually 'Carlos Quentin.'" I find it extremely difficult to believe that he would then allow Ozzie to bench Quentin in favor of Owens, at least assuming Quentin reaches full health at some early stage of the season.

 

I'm certainly not in favor of surrendering much to get Crisp- not now anyways- but should we acquire him, I don't believe Quentin is the one that gets pushed back on the depth chart.

 

Edit: I forgot Swish has to actually play the field somewhere...

 

I think any acquisition of Crisp means Owens has to be dealt...

 

And where does Swisher play? Swisher is not getting benched. That means Quentin is on the bench.

Edit: Damn your quick edit!

Edited January 31, 2008 by G&T

[Kalapse]

I disagree. I think adding Crisp solidifies (or at least this is the theory) our leadoff spot and adds great defense in Center. I think Owens can then platoon with Quentin should he not be fully healthy as of OD, with Quentin gradually taking a higher and higher percentage of the ab's. I think Jerry becomes 5th on the depth chart if Crisp is acquired.

 

Kenny stated that he went out to acquire "not a player 'like' Carlos Quentin, but actually 'Carlos Quentin.'" I find it extremely difficult to believe that he would then allow Ozzie to bench Quentin in favor of Owens, at least assuming Quentin reaches full health at some early stage of the season.

 

I'm certainly not in favor of surrendering much to get Crisp- not now anyways- but should we acquire him, I don't believe Quentin is the one that gets pushed back on the depth chart.

So you'd actually be in favor of adding a second low OBP hitter to the top of the lineup? People sure are confident that Crisp's last 1000 major league ABs have been an aberration. The only way I'd be in favor of adding Crisp is if he were acquired in a 1-1 swap for MacDougal and if he's placed in the 8th or 9th spot in the batting order.

[Balta1701]

So you'd actually be in favor of adding a second low OBP hitter to the top of the lineup? People sure are confident that Crisp's last 1000 major league ABs have been an aberration. The only way I'd be in favor of adding Crisp is if he were acquired in a 1-1 swap for MacDougal and if he's placed in the 8th or 9th spot in the batting order.

There's still no place to play him unless we move someone else. Basically, you want Crisp, we've got to move Konerko, IMO. Because Quentin isn't spending several years down at the minors waiting for an OF spot to open and we're not trading him again without playing him to push his value back up, we're not trading Swisher without playing him, and I don't see us moving Dye right now after a down season and a new contract.

 

Basically, you must move Konerko to go after Crisp, and move Swisher to 1b.

[iamshack]

So you'd actually be in favor of adding a second low OBP hitter to the top of the lineup? People sure are confident that Crisp's last 1000 major league ABs have been an aberration. The only way I'd be in favor of adding Crisp is if he were acquired in a 1-1 swap for MacDougal and if he's placed in the 8th or 9th spot in the batting order.

 

No, you're right. I forgot about Swish for a second there. Adding Crisp does absolutely nothing other than solidify our 4th OF position, which probably is a platoon player with Quentin. And at the price the Red Sox will likely command, it's simply not worth it.

 

I would have been in favor of a Crisp acquisition had we not acquired Swish, but now that we have, I think it just makes things more complicated.

 

I don't particularly want Owens out there, let alone another version of him- an older, more expensive version at that- however, we do have the problem of having no leadoff hitter and no true center fielder should Owens not be on the field.

 

Our best option is most likely some OF of Dye/Swisher/Quentin with Owens platooning with Quentin and Swisher, and Swisher moving into the RF/DH/1b position on some of those days Owens plays. As you can see, adding Crisp just complicates this, unless of course, Owens is dealt. And even then, the price for acquiring Crisp as a 4th OF or platoon OF just doesn't make a ton of sense.

 

Perhaps for a competing team at the deadline, but not at the outset.

Edited January 31, 2008 by iamshack

[Vance Law]

So you'd actually be in favor of adding a second low OBP hitter to the top of the lineup? People sure are confident that Crisp's last 1000 major league ABs have been an aberration. The only way I'd be in favor of adding Crisp is if he were acquired in a 1-1 swap for MacDougal and if he's placed in the 8th or 9th spot in the batting order.

 

I could stomach it if he were 10th in the batting order as the 4th outfielder.

[iamshack]

Basically, you must move Konerko to go after Crisp, and move Swisher to 1b.

 

Agreed. And then you reach the point of why are we doing all this just to acquire Crisp?

 

Unless a fantastic deal comes along for Konerko, one say, which includes pitching and 2b help, this is just getting too complicated.

Edited January 31, 2008 by iamshack

[Kalapse]

I could stomach it if he were 10th in the batting order as the 4th outfielder.

I'm still convinced Owens is going to win the CF/Leadoff job in spring training (quite the accomplishment) which is going to suck. So if I had a choice between Owens in CF and leading off or Crisp in CF and hitting 8th/9th I'm going with Crisp.

[Balta1701]

I'm still convinced Owens is going to win the CF/Leadoff job in spring training (quite the accomplishment) which is going to suck. So if I had a choice between Owens in CF and leading off or Crisp in CF and hitting 8th/9th I'm going with Crisp.

Do you really think there's any chance that if this team acquired that particular bowl of cereal he would do anything other than lead off?

[Kalapse]

Do you really think there's any chance that if this team acquired that particular bowl of cereal he would do anything other than lead off?

No, he would. I'm kidding myself if I suggest otherwise, I know. I just see this team as having a good amount of offensive potential which they're not going to fully tap into because they're in love with the low OBP slap hitter at the top. I guess if it came down to it and Crisp were able to be acquired for next to nothing from the Sawx I'd take him in CF/leading off over Owens. At least Crisp is an elite defender with a decent arm and the potential to post an .800 OPS (no matter how remote those chances may seem.)

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't understand this desire to go get Crisp, Pierre, Patterson or the like at this point. For one thing, does anyone really think its worth lowering the team OBP significantly (which is what would happen), just to have a more prototypical leadoff hitter? That makes zero sense. And second, at least in the case of Pierre and Patterson, we already have that guy on the team for a lot cheaper.

 

This team really has only one big need at he major league level at this point - one more solid SP. Any other "needs" or issues, like not having a prototypical leadoff hitter, being weak at backup C, that sort of thing... is just not worth investing a lot in right now.

 

[southsideirish71]

I don't understand this desire to go get Crisp, Pierre, Patterson or the like at this point. For one thing, does anyone really think its worth lowering the team OBP significantly (which is what would happen), just to have a more prototypical leadoff hitter? That makes zero sense. And second, at least in the case of Pierre and Patterson, we already have that guy on the team for a lot cheaper.

 

This team really has only one big need at he major league level at this point - one more solid SP. Any other "needs" or issues, like not having a prototypical leadoff hitter, being weak at backup C, that sort of thing... is just not worth investing a lot in right now.

 

The reason is simple. People have this romantic idea that the 2005 offense was some juggernaut that was feuled by speed, and guile and small ball. That only a bantam weight speedster ala Pods at the top of the lineup can fuel this team's offense. Now I know the DVD portrays that theory. But in reality, it was a rotten offense that had some guys swing for the fence and crank some homers, while the pitching was out of this world. The reason we won 99 games was that our pitching kept the other team from scoring a lot of runs. If we had a mediocre staff in 05, we win low 80s in games with that rotten offense.

 

Supposedly by Guillen and Williams OBP is the new buzzword and the bantam weight track star is not something he is looking for. Now if Quentin is healthy, it should be Quentin in RF, Swisher in CF, and Dye in LF. Now Ozzie has started his Owens is proving me something crap, which means that in the end his fascination with the bantam weight track star is more important than getting on base. Hopefully he resists this, and puts the correct lineup out there.

 

 

[EvilJester99]

The lead off hitter I would like to see KW go for is Chone Figgins. Its been rumored for awhile KW has been interested in him. Any guess on what the Angels would want for him?

[sircaffey]

No, you're right. I forgot about Swish for a second there. Adding Crisp does absolutely nothing other than solidify our 4th OF position, which probably is a platoon player with Quentin. And at the price the Red Sox will likely command, it's simply not worth it.

 

I would have been in favor of a Crisp acquisition had we not acquired Swish, but now that we have, I think it just makes things more complicated.

 

I don't particularly want Owens out there, let alone another version of him- an older, more expensive version at that- however, we do have the problem of having no leadoff hitter and no true center fielder should Owens not be on the field.

 

Our best option is most likely some OF of Dye/Swisher/Quentin with Owens platooning with Quentin and Swisher, and Swisher moving into the RF/DH/1b position on some of those days Owens plays. As you can see, adding Crisp just complicates this, unless of course, Owens is dealt. And even then, the price for acquiring Crisp as a 4th OF or platoon OF just doesn't make a ton of sense.

 

Perhaps for a competing team at the deadline, but not at the outset.

 

Why does everyone think Crisp would be expensive to get? He's simply just not that good and still owed a lot of money. The Red Sox don't seem that delirious to me that they'd ask for a hell of a lot for their 4th OF.