2008 White Sox Catch-All Thread

[BearSox]

a-b-e-r-r-a-t-i-o-n

I tend to disagree as most everyone here knows how highly I thought of Sweeney.

[justBLAZE]

Anyone watching Chicago Tribune Live?

 

Who is the douche in a black jacket, with glasses?

 

Keeps on saying how White Sox are garbage because they have no speedy lead off man.

[Princess Dye]

Anyone watching Chicago Tribune Live?

 

Who is the douche in a black jacket, with glasses?

 

Keeps on saying how White Sox are garbage because they have no speedy lead off man.

 

that's KC Johnson, the Bulls beat writer.

 

Hey, i dont know how we can disagree that they are terrible situational hitters. And that historically, that doesnt bode well for postseason hopes.

 

 

However, i think he's wrong that speed matters that much. if we take care of the situational hitting, we can be Boston-like from last yr.

 

 

[Princess Dye]

also this stuff about the pink hair on CTL is pretty good.

[justBLAZE]

It just seems like he has nothing positive to say.

 

 

[justBLAZE]

That would be comical, 4 wins away. I know Swisher would do it.

[witesoxfan]

I tend to disagree as most everyone here knows how highly I thought of Sweeney.

 

6 extra base hits all season...yeah, let me help you suck on his schlong a while too. :rolly

 

Swisher's a far more talented player, and it's a matter of him getting his swing figured out. The potential is much, much greater for Swisher than it is Sweeney.

 

 

[kwolf68]

6 extra base hits all season...yeah, let me help you suck on his schlong a while too. :rolly

 

Swisher's a far more talented player, and it's a matter of him getting his swing figured out. The potential is much, much greater for Swisher than it is Sweeney.

 

 

Yet and Sweeney in his first starting gig still has a better OPS, OBP, average, and slugging percentage while only having FOUR fewer extra base hits than Swisher in about 50 fewer at bats.

 

A career .250-something hitter is "far more" talented than Sweeney? Hardly.

 

Swisher is a NICE player, but is not an elite talent by any means. What you see is what you get with Swisher...good guy, .250 average, some power, not much else. Sweeney could turn out to be terrible, but could also turn out to be a .300+ hitter playing superior defense (as evidenced by early returns).

 

Swisher is the more proven commodity right now, but contrary to your point the far greater upside is with Sweeney.

Edited May 21, 2008 by kwolf68

[BearSox]

6 extra base hits all season...yeah, let me help you suck on his schlong a while too. :rolly

 

Swisher's a far more talented player, and it's a matter of him getting his swing figured out. The potential is much, much greater for Swisher than it is Sweeney.

 

That's 6 extra base hits compared to Swisher's 10 in 50 more AB's than Sweeney. Also, for someone with such a little amount of extra base hits, he has drove in 6 more runs. However, Swisher has double the amount of runs (24 to 12). Also, Swisher is on pace to have 140 some K's (albeit 100+ walks). I don't care what anyone says, K's are bad and unless you can hit more than 20-30 homers, and drive in more than 80 runs, having that many strikeouts is no good.

 

There is no denying it, as of now, Sweeney has had the better season. Will this be the case come September? Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. Most people know that for as long as I have posted here, I have been a huge fan of Sweeney's. Most know I was not a fan of the Swisher trade. I think it was Bureau who was saying that Sweeney was actually the centerpiece of the Swisher trade.

 

And for someone calling me out for "sucking on his schlong," you're doing quite a lot of that with Swisher. How exactly is he that far more talented player? He is a grinder and a guy who loves baseball and how to play the game, and has a great eye at the plate, but he quite frankly isn't that special of a ball player. His swing has never been all that pretty, and he has never hit for average (.240 MLB average, 260 MiLB average), and he K's a ton (however, not as much as some of the true K masters out there). By my accounts, Swisher is a pretty average player who walks a lot, and has a little pop. Plus, Sweeney's arm, range, and defense is far superior as well.

 

However, most people who aren't blinded by stats know that Sweeney has had all the potential in the world. He has as pretty as a swing a player can get, and could have been an 1st or 2nd round pick as either a pitcher or hitter. The reason why he fell to the second round was because teams didn't know as to whether he would have been a pitcher or hitter. It is completely asinine to say Sweeney has little talent, as he has as much talent as anyone in baseball, and that can be seen by just how pure and natural his swing is. The sad part has been that he hasn't been able to put it together.

 

Swisher is a good player in his own right, but if Sweeney ever finds most of his potential (which is a definite possibility as he is only 23), he will be one hell of a ball player. You are so very wrong about the potential being on the side of Sweeney. However, Swisher probably offers more now.

 

I know by these posts, it might seem I think Swisher sucks, but I do like him. He's a good ball player, but this spite lingers in me about him, because everytime I see him, I think of what we might be possibly losing out on with Sweeney and DLS (I was a huge DLS fan as well).

[eickevinmorris]

I have no doubt that BearSox knows absolutely nothing about Ryan Sweeney's potential. Swisher is not a "nice" player -- "nice" players don't post 125/127 OPS+ at the age of 25-26.

[eickevinmorris]

Also -- Swisher is sporting a BABIP of .250 right now. Compare that to Sweeney's .358. What does that mean? One of them has been unlucky -- the other quite lucky. Take your pick.

[witesoxfan]

Yet and Sweeney in his first starting gig still has a better OPS, OBP, average, and slugging percentage while only having FOUR fewer extra base hits than Swisher in about 50 fewer at bats.

 

A career .250-something hitter is "far more" talented than Sweeney? Hardly.

 

Swisher is a NICE player, but is not an elite talent by any means. What you see is what you get with Swisher...good guy, .250 average, some power, not much else. Sweeney could turn out to be terrible, but could also turn out to be a .300+ hitter playing superior defense (as evidenced by early returns).

 

Swisher is the more proven commodity right now, but contrary to your point the far greater upside is with Sweeney.

 

Perhaps "talented" was the wrong word to use. Perhaps "productive" is better. Swisher has much, much more power potential and has gotten on base at a .360 clip in his career; if he hits .250, he's putting up OPS's in the .850 range, and if he hits better, it only rises.

 

I'll also disagree that the greater upside is with Sweeney...until he starts hitting .320, I don't see him doing much at the plate other than singling much.

 

That's 6 extra base hits compared to Swisher's 10 in 50 more AB's than Sweeney. Also, for someone with such a little amount of extra base hits, he has drove in 6 more runs. However, Swisher has double the amount of runs (24 to 12). Also, Swisher is on pace to have 140 some K's (albeit 100+ walks). I don't care what anyone says, K's are bad and unless you can hit more than 20-30 homers, and drive in more than 80 runs, having that many strikeouts is no good.

 

Swisher has also led off half the year with Uribe and Crede hitting in front of him - it's understandable as to why he doesn't have many runs driven in. He's also in a hella slump right now which contributes to it as well.

 

Strikeouts aren't good, but they really aren't a whole hell of a lot different than flying or grounding out. It would be nice if he could put the ball in play a bit more, but that's just not his game and it's not what he does. If he hits his 25-30 homers and walks 100 times again, he can strike out 150 times and it won't make a huge difference to me.

 

There is no denying it, as of now, Sweeney has had the better season. Will this be the case come September? Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. Most people know that for as long as I have posted here, I have been a huge fan of Sweeney's. Most know I was not a fan of the Swisher trade. I think it was Bureau who was saying that Sweeney was actually the centerpiece of the Swisher trade.

 

I'd bet a hell of a lot of money that Swisher's end of season stats blow Sweeney's out of the water. Until he starts hitting for power, he's no different than Sean Burroughs. Sweeney will stick around because he can play CF, but that doesn't mean he's good offensively.

 

And for someone calling me out for "sucking on his schlong," you're doing quite a lot of that with Swisher. How exactly is he that far more talented player? He is a grinder and a guy who loves baseball and how to play the game, and has a great eye at the plate, but he quite frankly isn't that special of a ball player. His swing has never been all that pretty, and he has never hit for average (.240 MLB average, 260 MiLB average), and he K's a ton (however, not as much as some of the true K masters out there). By my accounts, Swisher is a pretty average player who walks a lot, and has a little pop. Plus, Sweeney's arm, range, and defense is far superior as well.

 

I don't suck the cocks of players (other than Carlos Quentin) - I merely look at them objectively, and I realize that Nick Swisher has been a very productive player throughout his entire career. He's not a special player, but he's a damn good player when he's playing well, and that's all that matters to me.

 

Average player...LOL. Average players don't put up OPS+ of 115 throughout their entire career.

 

I also don't understand what the difference between arm & range and defense is...arm and range ARE defense. And it's not far superior because Swisher has been pretty damn good in CF. Mediocre arm, but he's been a pleasant surprise defensively.

 

However, most people who aren't blinded by stats know that Sweeney has had all the potential in the world. He has as pretty as a swing a player can get, and could have been an 1st or 2nd round pick as either a pitcher or hitter. The reason why he fell to the second round was because teams didn't know as to whether he would have been a pitcher or hitter. It is completely asinine to say Sweeney has little talent, as he has as much talent as anyone in baseball, and that can be seen by just how pure and natural his swing is. The sad part has been that he hasn't been able to put it together.

 

If by all the potential in the world you mean he'll be a good 2 or 3 hitter if everything works out for him, then sure, hundreds of guys have all the potential in the world.

 

The talent he is missing is strength. Without strength, he'll almost assuredly be a pretty mediocre hitter throughout his entire career.

 

And perhaps the biggest reason he fell to the second round was signability issues, not whether there was concern about him pitching or hitting. People were afraid he was going to go to college and didn't want to waste a pick on him in the first 3 rounds if he wasn't going to sign. The Sox took a chance and it paid off.

 

Swisher is a good player in his own right, but if Sweeney ever finds most of his potential (which is a definite possibility as he is only 23), he will be one hell of a ball player. You are so very wrong about the potential being on the side of Sweeney. However, Swisher probably offers more now.

 

Alex Rios, Bill Mueller...those seem to be good comparisons to Sweeney. Good players, but they weren't players you'd ever build around. Swisher isn't either, but if he ever figures out how to hit for any sort of average, he is probably a guy that you can build around. Perhaps from a pure baseball perspective, Sweeney is more talented than Swisher, but production wise, I'll take Swisher 10 times out of 10.

 

I know by these posts, it might seem I think Swisher sucks, but I do like him. He's a good ball player, but this spite lingers in me about him, because everytime I see him, I think of what we might be possibly losing out on with Sweeney and DLS (I was a huge DLS fan as well).

 

DLS is a reliever and his arm is all sorts of f***ed up. He had like a 5.50 ERA in AA and has been shutdown. I really don't think you're missing him that badly.

[Whitewashed in '05]

What happened to DLS?

[BearSox]

Wite, I agree with you... Swisher is the more productive ball player, but to completely ignore the fact that Sweeney can become the better player in a couple of years is being naive. There is no doubting the upside there is with Sweeney, it's just a matter of putting it together. Will he ever, I don't know. But you are completely, 100% correct, Swisher (as of now) is the more productive player.

[witesoxfan]

What happened to DLS?

 

via rotoworld...I lied it was actually straight up A ball where he was pitching...dated back to May 4th

 

The A's have shut down pitching prospect Fautino De Los Santos due to a sore elbow.

 

He'll rest for a few weeks at least. De Los Santos, who was picked up in the Nick Swisher deal, had a 5.87 ERA in 23 innings for Single-A Stockton before going down.

Edited May 22, 2008 by witesoxfan

[Whitewashed in '05]

via rotoworld...I lied it was actually straight up A ball where he was pitching...dated back to May 4th

Thanks... and ouch that sucks.

[StrangeSox]

Also -- Swisher is sporting a BABIP of .250 right now. Compare that to Sweeney's .358. What does that mean? One of them has been unlucky -- the other quite lucky. Take your pick.

 

 

It's unlucky if you hit a laser right at someone. Its not unlucky if you hit weak grounders and infield pop-ups.

[Leonard Zelig]

What's up with the Wilder thread? It disappeared to be worked on? And now the "placeholder" thread is closed too? Did somebody say too much?

[eickevinmorris]

It's unlucky if you hit a laser right at someone. Its not unlucky if you hit weak grounders and infield pop-ups.

His LD% is 21% -- right in line with his career numbers.

[BearSox]

Did I ever tell anyone that I hate sabermetrics?

[witesoxfan]

Did I ever tell anyone that I hate sabermetrics?

 

Line drive percentage isn't sabermetrics. BABIP really isn't sabermetrics either. Those are more or less indicators of success/failure for pitchers/hitters.

[Leonard Zelig]

Did I ever tell anyone that I hate sabermetrics?

 

Well, I do remember that you hate stats.

[StrangeSox]

His LD% is 21% -- right in line with his career numbers.

 

And those balls in play aren't LD's have been poorly-hit balls. If you are just barely making contact and rolling over on pitches, your BABIP is going to be bad. That doesn't mean you're unlucky.

[eickevinmorris]

Did I ever tell anyone that I hate sabermetrics?

That would be irrelevant considering I haven't posted anything remotely sabermetric. It would make as much sense as me posting "I hate green tea" after you post a Sweeney knob-slob fest.

[knightni]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=cws

 

Uribe's steadying prescence missed by Guillen

 

That steady .167 batting average sure does the trick!