What is a bleeding heart liberal?

[baggio202]

how to convert a pacifist

 

1. go out and find a pacifist protesting our governemnt....shouldnt be hard.

 

2. ask him about his beliefs and listen for the standard answer that peace will always win out over violence

 

3. then , hit said pacifist in the face..

 

4. when he gets up all mad remind him that he is a pacifist and therefore shouldnt fight back

 

5. when he agrees with you hit him in the face ever harder this time

 

5. repeat steps 2 through 5 until he finally realizes that sometimes you have to fight back

[Cerbaho-WG]

Or I could wait for you to get arrested.

 

Whichever comes first.

[Mike South24]

Hey apu and MM.

 

I'll have to back nuke here. What he does is very productive. Do you defend the United states? I know Apu dont and wouldnt. he's pretty damn close to an anarchist. :puke

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by Mike South24

Hey apu and MM. 

 

I'll have to back nuke here. What he does is very productive. Do you defend the United states?  I know Apu dont and wouldnt. he's pretty damn close to an anarchist.  :puke

 

Well..... if he is an anarchist, I hope he plans on using chants and burning incense to pacify a potential threat to his lifestyle if anarchy reigned. However, something tells me Apu would be one of the first in line to buy an assault rifle to defend life and family.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by cwsox

anyone who speaks of Oscar Romero, Ita Ford, and by inlucison, Maura Clark, Jean Donovan, and Dorothy Kazel, is someone that I will listen to for that person has much to teach and share.

 

anyone who gleefully, casually, and/or caviliarly (note the adjectives) accepts the deaths of infants and children, let alone women and men, who are non combatants, in committing acts of violence, is the moral equivilant of Timothy McVeigh or Osama Bin Laden, regardless of whatever outer clothes are worn.

 

And having said that, as the father of a Marine, I will add that the School of the Americas is a trainong ground for terrorism and should be shut down immediately.

 

And the definitions of "bleeding heart liberalism" that we have read here are ridiculous and absurd, and bulls***. The total lack of precision in writing, and writing from one's personal biases with such sophomoric understandings is not worthy of the better minds, the better thinking, that each member of this board possesses but denies behind the macho jock tough guy poses. 

 

Liberalism in the issues argued here takes in the full reality of an individual/society in a situation, seeks to understand all of the various factors that contribute to that situation, and respond accordingly to each factor.  To understand those factors as they impinge on an individual is then to respond in an approipriate way to that individual for the sake of society and that individual.  No one, however liberal, adovcated that Manson, Gacy, McVegh, or Dahmer should be let go "because grandma and grandpa were mean to them" (and whoever used tyhat phrase, come on, you can do better than that).  Actually, in each of their lives, we can trace what factors impacted on them, and knowing those, we can work to make those same factors do not affect other individuals.  Meanwhile, they each deserved their judgment in society which has an obligation to protect itself.

 

To understand what has affected the life of either Ligue, and respond to each with the appropriate sentence for each one as determined by the court, means we may rescue one young man from following the sad footsteps of his father, while the father gets a much needed reality check and gets his head straight while serving whatever sentence the court finds appropriate.

 

 

FACTORS WHICH IMPACTED PEOPLE? YOU HAVE A GIFT FOR EUPHAMISIMS MY FRIEND. THOSE "FACTORS" WHICH YOU SAY LED PEOPLE TO DO THE WRONG THING ARE NOTHING MORE THAN EXCUSES. THEY ARE EXCUSES USED BY SCUMBAG LAWYERS TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT PEOPLE WHO COMMIT CRIME DONT HAVE TO PAY ANY PENALTY FOR THEIR MISDEEDS.

 

THE DOG DIED, THE FATHER OF THE PERP WHIPPED HIS ASS WHEN HE WAS A BOY, MOMMY WAS A CRACKHEAD, THS STARS WERE IMPROPERLY ALIGNED. YOU LIBERALS WILL SAY ANYTHING TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARENT PUNISHED FOR THE CRIMES THEY COMMIT. IM SO SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE MAKING EXCUSES FOR CRIMINALS.

 

LET SOME CRACKHEAD KILL SOMEONE CLOSE TO YOU OVER A WALLET OR PURSE AND SEE WHETHER YOU GIVE A f*** ABOUT WHETHER THE ASSHOLE HAD AN ICE CREAM CONE MELT ON HIM WHEN HE WAS 7 OR NOT.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by sideshowapu

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

Originally posted by doubleM23

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

I DIDNT SAY THAT ALL PEOPLE KILLED BY SOA GRADS WERE LEFTIST REBELS, JUST MOST OF THEM.  YOU KNOW SOMETHING ELSE, I REALLY COULD GIVE A f*** LESS IF ANY "INNOCENT" PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY A FEW OF THESE MEN. WE TEACH OUR FRIENDS IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA COUNTER-INSURGENCY TO HELP KEEP GOVERNMENTS FRIENDLY TO THE UNITED STATES SAFE FROM MARXIST/LEFTIST REBELS.  THAT IS WHAT IS TRULY AT THE HEART OF YOUR BEEF WITH SOA.  WE'RE TEACHING OUR FRIENDS TO KICK THE ASS OF PEOPLE YOU WANT TO SEE IN POWER DOWN THERE.  IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF CONVIENENCE TO YOU THAT A FEW GRADS OF THAT SCHOOL MAY HAVE MISUSED THEIR TRAINING.

 

YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL ABOUT THE SPREAD OF MARXISM/LENINISM AND REALLY DONT GIVE A s*** ABOUT WHATEVER COLLATERAL DAMAGE OCCURS DOWN THERE.  ONE LITTLE PROBLEM THOUGH.  MARXISM/LENINISM IS DEAD.  IT IS DEAD AND ITS CORPSE ROTS FURTHER WITH EVERY PASSING DAY.  YOUR SILLY PROTESTS ARE ACCOMPLISHING NOTHING OTHER THAN SHOCK TREATMENT ON A DECOMPOSED CORPSE.

 

GO DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE WITH YOUR LIFE FOR A CHANGE. 

 

I'm sure my great aunt, her husband, their young child and the rest of the bus full of innocent people trying to go to a democratic election thought it was "convienent" when they were gunned down in cold blood in El Salvador back in the days of Oscar Romero and the El Salvadorian Civil War.

 

Real convienent.

 

I think fighting for peace and social justice is quite a productive thing to do with your life. Much more productive than wasting your life in a cubicle in some meaningless 9-to-5.

 

I HARDLY CONSIDER MAKING A PEST OUT OF YOURSELF "PRODUCTIVE" AND I DONT WORK IN A CUBICLE BTW. MY "MEANINGLESS 9 TO 5" INVOLVES WEARING A UNIFORM THAT SAYS U.S. ARMY AND HELPING PROTECT OUR COUNTRY. MYSELF, THOSE THAT SERVE WITH ME AND THOSE WHO HAVE COME BEFORE DO AND HAVE DONE MORE IN 5 MINUTES TO MAINTAIN WORLD PEACE THAN LEFTIST AGITATORS COULD EVER DO IN A LIFETIME.

 

Ah yes...war brings peace. I forgot that violence always brings peace...you know, the senseless slaughter of peoples always brings peace...I mean, look how well it's worked for the Israelis and Palestinians.

 

It's not about Marxism as it is about human rights. Tell me Nuke how civilian slaughters by US trained militaries can be justified when the slaughtered were unarmed? What did they do? Ita Ford and the Catholic nuns she was with were improving literacy and medical conditions in El Salvador...I guess that was too much of a leftist threat because they were raped, mutilated and killed by SOA graduates.

Or Oscar Romero, who asked for peace and non-violence in El Salvador who I guess was too much of a leftist and got shot for asking for peace while celebrating mass.

Or the children 5 and younger that were slaughtered in the town of El Mazote. Were they too leftist that they were rounded up unarmed and shot to death by death squads?

Or 9 out of 10 labor unionists in Colombia being kidnapped and murdered by SOA trained troops. Shouldn't workers be given basic rights to not work in sweatshops without being killed by US trained military officers?

 

Please, Nuke, explain this to me. I am sick and goddamn tired of my tax dollars being spent and the disappearances and murders of small children, church workers, and human rights workers.

Try to defend the rightist hardline regimes there. Try to justify the cold blooded murders of innocent people working for peace. Come on, Nuke or anybody, try to defend the perpetrators of these horrible crimes.

 

 

I MADE MY POINT ABOUT THIS ALREADY. YOU USE THE CONVIENENT FACT THAT A SMALL NUMBER OF SOUTH AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL WE TRAINED MISUSED THEIR TRAINING & KILLED INNOCENTS AS A COVER FOR LOBBYING FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A SCHOOL THAT TRAINS OUR FRIENDS DOWN SOUTH TO FIGHT COMMUNISTS. YOU DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE AT ALL. YOU WANT US TO STOP TRAINING THOSE PEOPLE TO KICK THE ASS OF YOUR MARXIST PALS DOWN THERE.

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by cwsox

anyone who speaks of Oscar Romero, Ita Ford, and by inlucison, Maura Clark, Jean Donovan, and Dorothy Kazel, is someone that I will listen to for that person has much to teach and share.

 

 

 

Bulls***. Then share your ideas on how to deal with a Osama Bin Laden. Or Saddam Hussein. Those that advocate force have been asking all the leftists on this board for months now for their ideas on how Bush and the US should handle this situation. All we get are more f***ing links to liberal, sometimes borderline Socialist, garbage. Being moderate in my political views, I wish the whole Middle East crisis and the War on Terrorism could be settled with all sides sitting down and hammering out an agreement that all sides could agree on. BUT THAT ISN'T GOING TO f***ING HAPPEN..... NOT TODAY, NOT TOMORROW, NOT ANYDAY!!!!! What the Romero's, Fords, et al had in common is that they just couldn't come to the revelation that some people..... your Bin Laden's, Husseins, Islamic Fundamentalists, etc..... don't understand anything but violence.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

Originally posted by sideshowapu

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

Originally posted by doubleM23

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

I DIDNT SAY THAT ALL PEOPLE KILLED BY SOA GRADS WERE LEFTIST REBELS, JUST MOST OF THEM.  YOU KNOW SOMETHING ELSE, I REALLY COULD GIVE A f*** LESS IF ANY "INNOCENT" PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY A FEW OF THESE MEN. WE TEACH OUR FRIENDS IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA COUNTER-INSURGENCY TO HELP KEEP GOVERNMENTS FRIENDLY TO THE UNITED STATES SAFE FROM MARXIST/LEFTIST REBELS.  THAT IS WHAT IS TRULY AT THE HEART OF YOUR BEEF WITH SOA.  WE'RE TEACHING OUR FRIENDS TO KICK THE ASS OF PEOPLE YOU WANT TO SEE IN POWER DOWN THERE.  IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF CONVIENENCE TO YOU THAT A FEW GRADS OF THAT SCHOOL MAY HAVE MISUSED THEIR TRAINING.

 

YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL ABOUT THE SPREAD OF MARXISM/LENINISM AND REALLY DONT GIVE A s*** ABOUT WHATEVER COLLATERAL DAMAGE OCCURS DOWN THERE.  ONE LITTLE PROBLEM THOUGH.  MARXISM/LENINISM IS DEAD.  IT IS DEAD AND ITS CORPSE ROTS FURTHER WITH EVERY PASSING DAY.  YOUR SILLY PROTESTS ARE ACCOMPLISHING NOTHING OTHER THAN SHOCK TREATMENT ON A DECOMPOSED CORPSE.

 

GO DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE WITH YOUR LIFE FOR A CHANGE. 

 

I'm sure my great aunt, her husband, their young child and the rest of the bus full of innocent people trying to go to a democratic election thought it was "convienent" when they were gunned down in cold blood in El Salvador back in the days of Oscar Romero and the El Salvadorian Civil War.

 

Real convienent.

 

I think fighting for peace and social justice is quite a productive thing to do with your life. Much more productive than wasting your life in a cubicle in some meaningless 9-to-5.

 

I HARDLY CONSIDER MAKING A PEST OUT OF YOURSELF "PRODUCTIVE" AND I DONT WORK IN A CUBICLE BTW. MY "MEANINGLESS 9 TO 5" INVOLVES WEARING A UNIFORM THAT SAYS U.S. ARMY AND HELPING PROTECT OUR COUNTRY. MYSELF, THOSE THAT SERVE WITH ME AND THOSE WHO HAVE COME BEFORE DO AND HAVE DONE MORE IN 5 MINUTES TO MAINTAIN WORLD PEACE THAN LEFTIST AGITATORS COULD EVER DO IN A LIFETIME.

 

Ah yes...war brings peace. I forgot that violence always brings peace...you know, the senseless slaughter of peoples always brings peace...I mean, look how well it's worked for the Israelis and Palestinians.

 

It's not about Marxism as it is about human rights. Tell me Nuke how civilian slaughters by US trained militaries can be justified when the slaughtered were unarmed? What did they do? Ita Ford and the Catholic nuns she was with were improving literacy and medical conditions in El Salvador...I guess that was too much of a leftist threat because they were raped, mutilated and killed by SOA graduates.

Or Oscar Romero, who asked for peace and non-violence in El Salvador who I guess was too much of a leftist and got shot for asking for peace while celebrating mass.

Or the children 5 and younger that were slaughtered in the town of El Mazote. Were they too leftist that they were rounded up unarmed and shot to death by death squads?

Or 9 out of 10 labor unionists in Colombia being kidnapped and murdered by SOA trained troops. Shouldn't workers be given basic rights to not work in sweatshops without being killed by US trained military officers?

 

Please, Nuke, explain this to me. I am sick and goddamn tired of my tax dollars being spent and the disappearances and murders of small children, church workers, and human rights workers.

Try to defend the rightist hardline regimes there. Try to justify the cold blooded murders of innocent people working for peace. Come on, Nuke or anybody, try to defend the perpetrators of these horrible crimes.

 

 

I MADE MY POINT ABOUT THIS ALREADY. YOU USE THE CONVIENENT FACT THAT A SMALL NUMBER OF SOUTH AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL WE TRAINED MISUSED THEIR TRAINING & KILLED INNOCENTS AS A COVER FOR LOBBYING FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A SCHOOL THAT TRAINS OUR FRIENDS DOWN SOUTH TO FIGHT COMMUNISTS. YOU DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE AT ALL. YOU WANT US TO STOP TRAINING THOSE PEOPLE TO KICK THE ASS OF YOUR MARXIST PALS DOWN THERE.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by CubKilla

Originally posted by Mike South24

Hey apu and MM. 

 

I'll have to back nuke here. What he does is very productive. Do you defend the United states?  I know Apu dont and wouldnt. he's pretty damn close to an anarchist.  :puke

 

Well..... if he is an anarchist, I hope he plans on using chants and burning incense to pacify a potential threat to his lifestyle if anarchy reigned. However, something tells me Apu would be one of the first in line to buy an assault rifle to defend life and family.

 

YOU KNOW WHAT I REALLY LOVE ABOUT PACIFISTS? ITS THE FACT THAT WHENEVER WE LISTEN TO THEM AND "GIVE PEACE A CHANCE" SOMETHING BAD ALWAYS HAPPENS TO US AND WHEN IT DOES THOSE SAME PACIFISTS ARE THE FIRST TO b**** AT THE REST OF US FOR NOT DOING ANYTHING WHEN WE HAD THE CHANCE. HYPOCRITES. TOTAL HYPOCRITES.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by CubKilla

Originally posted by cwsox

anyone who speaks of Oscar Romero, Ita Ford, and by inlucison, Maura Clark, Jean Donovan, and Dorothy Kazel, is someone that I will listen to for that person has much to teach and share.

 

 

 

Bulls***. Then share your ideas on how to deal with a Osama Bin Laden. Or Saddam Hussein. Those that advocate force have been asking all the leftists on this board for months now for their ideas on how Bush and the US should handle this situation. All we get are more f***ing links to liberal, sometimes borderline Socialist, garbage. Being moderate in my political views, I wish the whole Middle East crisis and the War on Terrorism could be settled with all sides sitting down and hammering out an agreement that all sides could agree on. BUT THAT ISN'T GOING TO f***ING HAPPEN..... NOT TODAY, NOT TOMORROW, NOT ANYDAY!!!!! What the Romero's, Fords, et al had in common is that they just couldn't come to the revelation that some people..... your Bin Laden's, Husseins, Islamic Fundamentalists, etc..... don't understand anything but violence.

 

THANK YOU. THATS A POINT THAT NEEDED TO BE MADE.

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by cwsox

 

To understand what has affected the life of either Ligue, and respond to each with the appropriate sentence for each one as determined by the court, means we may rescue one young man from following the sad footsteps of his father, while the father gets a much needed reality check and gets his head straight while serving whatever sentence the court finds appropriate.

 

 

 

The criminal justice system in this country is a joke. If the courts had clue one on how to deal with Ligue (the father) he'd have been in jail for all his previous offenses. As for the punk kid..... quit making him out to be the victim. His life path is set towards violence and lawlessness. Good thing a liberal lawyer will be there to defend his best interests after he batters or maybe kills the next person that, to quote the little Ligue, "looked at me and flipped me off" a certain way. Where's the voice in this country for the victim?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by CubKilla

Originally posted by cwsox

 

To understand what has affected the life of either Ligue, and respond to each with the appropriate sentence for each one as determined by the court, means we may rescue one young man from following the sad footsteps of his father, while the father gets a much needed reality check and gets his head straight while serving whatever sentence the court finds appropriate.

 

 

 

The criminal justice system in this country is a joke. If the courts had clue one on how to deal with Ligue (the father) he'd have been in jail for all his previous offenses. As for the punk kid..... quit making him out to be the victim. His life path is set towards violence and lawlessness. Good thing a liberal lawyer will be there to defend his best interests after he batters or maybe kills the next person that, to quote the little Ligue, "looked at me and flipped me off" a certain way. Where's the voice in this country for the victim?

 

THERE ISINT ONE, REALLY. BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF LEFTIST IDIOTS AND A FEW ON THIS BOARD WHO ARE ALL SET TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR ASSHOLES WHO KILL, INJURE AND STEAL FROM PEOPLE. ITS REALLY SICKENING I THINK. HAVE THESE PEOPLE NO CONSCIENCE AT ALL OR DO YOU NOT REALIZE THAT LETTING OFF CRIMINAL SCUMBAGS BECAUSE OF SOME SILLY EXCUSE IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN INVITATION TO MORE MAYHEM.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

 

 

I MADE MY POINT ABOUT THIS ALREADY.  YOU USE THE CONVIENENT FACT THAT A SMALL NUMBER OF SOUTH AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL WE TRAINED MISUSED THEIR TRAINING & KILLED INNOCENTS AS A COVER FOR LOBBYING FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A SCHOOL THAT TRAINS OUR FRIENDS DOWN SOUTH TO FIGHT COMMUNISTS.  YOU DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE AT ALL.  YOU WANT US TO STOP TRAINING THOSE PEOPLE TO KICK THE ASS OF YOUR MARXIST PALS DOWN THERE.

 

A small handful, Nuke?

Maybe you'd like to look at the numbers:

* 2/3 of the Columbian military has been indicted for human rights violations (torture and murder of small children, labor activists, church workers) and they were SOA graduates.

* Colonel Uribe of Columbia, an SOA grad, is one of the most notorious human rights abusers authorizing the fumagation to crops of people opposing military dictatorships along with numerous kidnappings and murders that have taken place in Columbia.

* Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia who privatized the water supply so over 70% of the people couldn't afford water. When they peacefully protested, he assigned snipers and the military to kill protesters.

* 20 out of the 26 officers indicted for the EL Mazote massacre of 900 villagers (over 1/2 under age 12...tell me again how those are Marxist rebels Nuke...I'd like to hear your explanation)

* the Jesuit massacre of 6 Jesuit priests, their housekeeper and the housekeeper's daughter (trained by the US...the Atacotl battallion was the responsible party and had just come back 24 hrs. fresh from US training when they did this)...tell me Nuke, was the housekeeper's daughter a communist fighter also? a teenage girl?!

 

Nuke, if you actually believe that we're killing leftist guerrillas, for the most part you're absolutely incorrect. In Columbia, for example, the paramilitaries are responsible for over 90% of the human rights violations occuring there according to Amnesty International.

Yes, groups like the FARQ are minority groups when coming to having any power in committing any sort of human rights abuses. They are nowhere near as prolific in the murder of innocents as SOA graduates are.

 

The SOA has caused the death of thousands of victims throughout Central and South America. If you believe it is Marxist that the people be able to democratically elect their government, that they can live without fear of being "disappeared" for being a labor activist for shorter hours and higher wages, if they want enough money to feed their family and have a basic life...Peasants should be able to farm their land without corporations like United Fruit owning over 1/2 their country. They peacefully try to buy it back at the same price UF was buying. UF's response? Send in the Marine Corps to decimate the farmers.

 

Nuke, people are dying. Churchwomen, lay people, farmers, innocent little f***ing kids! I could give two pieces of monkey s*** about their politics...nobody should have to worry about being murdered, kidnapped or disappeared for standing up against military oppression or fighting for basic human rights and dignity!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by sideshowapu

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

 

 

I MADE MY POINT ABOUT THIS ALREADY.  YOU USE THE CONVIENENT FACT THAT A SMALL NUMBER OF SOUTH AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL WE TRAINED MISUSED THEIR TRAINING & KILLED INNOCENTS AS A COVER FOR LOBBYING FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A SCHOOL THAT TRAINS OUR FRIENDS DOWN SOUTH TO FIGHT COMMUNISTS.  YOU DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE AT ALL.  YOU WANT US TO STOP TRAINING THOSE PEOPLE TO KICK THE ASS OF YOUR MARXIST PALS DOWN THERE.

 

A small handful, Nuke?

Maybe you'd like to look at the numbers:

* 2/3 of the Columbian military has been indicted for human rights violations (torture and murder of small children, labor activists, church workers) and they were SOA graduates.

* Colonel Uribe of Columbia, an SOA grad, is one of the most notorious human rights abusers authorizing the fumagation to crops of people opposing military dictatorships along with numerous kidnappings and murders that have taken place in Columbia.

* Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia who privatized the water supply so over 70% of the people couldn't afford water. When they peacefully protested, he assigned snipers and the military to kill protesters.

* 20 out of the 26 officers indicted for the EL Mazote massacre of 900 villagers (over 1/2 under age 12...tell me again how those are Marxist rebels Nuke...I'd like to hear your explanation)

* the Jesuit massacre of 6 Jesuit priests, their housekeeper and the housekeeper's daughter (trained by the US...the Atacotl battallion was the responsible party and had just come back 24 hrs. fresh from US training when they did this)...tell me Nuke, was the housekeeper's daughter a communist fighter also? a teenage girl?!

 

Nuke, if you actually believe that we're killing leftist guerrillas, for the most part you're absolutely incorrect. In Columbia, for example, the paramilitaries are responsible for over 90% of the human rights violations occuring there according to Amnesty International.

Yes, groups like the FARQ are minority groups when coming to having any power in committing any sort of human rights abuses. They are nowhere near as prolific in the murder of innocents as SOA graduates are.

 

The SOA has caused the death of thousands of victims throughout Central and South America. If you believe it is Marxist that the people be able to democratically elect their government, that they can live without fear of being "disappeared" for being a labor activist for shorter hours and higher wages, if they want enough money to feed their family and have a basic life...Peasants should be able to farm their land without corporations like United Fruit owning over 1/2 their country. They peacefully try to buy it back at the same price UF was buying. UF's response? Send in the Marine Corps to decimate the farmers.

 

Nuke, people are dying. Churchwomen, lay people, farmers, innocent little f***ing kids! I could give two pieces of monkey s*** about their politics...nobody should have to worry about being murdered, kidnapped or disappeared for standing up against military oppression or fighting for basic human rights and dignity!

 

 

YOU GET YOUR STATS FROM AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. THERES A REALLY CREDIBLE f***ING SOURCE. THATS THE SAME BUNCH OF IDIOTS THAT YELL THE SKY IS FALLING EVERY TIME SOME CRIMINAL GETS EXECUTED. WHEN IT COMES TO THIS SORT OF THING THESE ASSHOLES MAKE CHICKEN LITTLE LOOK LEVEL HEADED. I STAND BY WHAT I SAID. YOU ARE SIMPLY USING WHAT ARE ONLY A SMALL NUMBER OF HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSERS TO ADVANCE A LEFTIST AGENDA.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Originally posted by CubKilla

Originally posted by cwsox

 

To understand what has affected the life of either Ligue, and respond to each with the appropriate sentence for each one as determined by the court, means we may rescue one young man from following the sad footsteps of his father, while the father gets a much needed reality check and gets his head straight while serving whatever sentence the court finds appropriate.

 

 

 

The criminal justice system in this country is a joke. If the courts had clue one on how to deal with Ligue (the father) he'd have been in jail for all his previous offenses. As for the punk kid..... quit making him out to be the victim. His life path is set towards violence and lawlessness. Good thing a liberal lawyer will be there to defend his best interests after he batters or maybe kills the next person that, to quote the little Ligue, "looked at me and flipped me off" a certain way. Where's the voice in this country for the victim?

 

I agree that the kid should face up and pay for that assbeating he laid on Tom Gamboa. However, I also think that the heads of Enron and WorldCom, etc. should also see jailtime. What about the thousands of workers who lost their pensions and stuff because of Kenny Lay and Co.? What about a voice for those victims?!?!

What about the voice of the victims of those killed and tortured by SOA graduates? They've gone through a lot of s*** and the US has said nothing about it's responsibility for training these cold hearted bastard perps. What about the voices for those victims, CubKilla?

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

Originally posted by sideshowapu

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

 

 

I MADE MY POINT ABOUT THIS ALREADY.  YOU USE THE CONVIENENT FACT THAT A SMALL NUMBER OF SOUTH AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL WE TRAINED MISUSED THEIR TRAINING & KILLED INNOCENTS AS A COVER FOR LOBBYING FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A SCHOOL THAT TRAINS OUR FRIENDS DOWN SOUTH TO FIGHT COMMUNISTS.  YOU DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE AT ALL.  YOU WANT US TO STOP TRAINING THOSE PEOPLE TO KICK THE ASS OF YOUR MARXIST PALS DOWN THERE.

 

A small handful, Nuke?

Maybe you'd like to look at the numbers:

* 2/3 of the Columbian military has been indicted for human rights violations (torture and murder of small children, labor activists, church workers) and they were SOA graduates.

* Colonel Uribe of Columbia, an SOA grad, is one of the most notorious human rights abusers authorizing the fumagation to crops of people opposing military dictatorships along with numerous kidnappings and murders that have taken place in Columbia.

* Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia who privatized the water supply so over 70% of the people couldn't afford water. When they peacefully protested, he assigned snipers and the military to kill protesters.

* 20 out of the 26 officers indicted for the EL Mazote massacre of 900 villagers (over 1/2 under age 12...tell me again how those are Marxist rebels Nuke...I'd like to hear your explanation)

* the Jesuit massacre of 6 Jesuit priests, their housekeeper and the housekeeper's daughter (trained by the US...the Atacotl battallion was the responsible party and had just come back 24 hrs. fresh from US training when they did this)...tell me Nuke, was the housekeeper's daughter a communist fighter also? a teenage girl?!

 

Nuke, if you actually believe that we're killing leftist guerrillas, for the most part you're absolutely incorrect. In Columbia, for example, the paramilitaries are responsible for over 90% of the human rights violations occuring there according to Amnesty International.

Yes, groups like the FARQ are minority groups when coming to having any power in committing any sort of human rights abuses. They are nowhere near as prolific in the murder of innocents as SOA graduates are.

 

The SOA has caused the death of thousands of victims throughout Central and South America. If you believe it is Marxist that the people be able to democratically elect their government, that they can live without fear of being "disappeared" for being a labor activist for shorter hours and higher wages, if they want enough money to feed their family and have a basic life...Peasants should be able to farm their land without corporations like United Fruit owning over 1/2 their country. They peacefully try to buy it back at the same price UF was buying. UF's response? Send in the Marine Corps to decimate the farmers.

 

Nuke, people are dying. Churchwomen, lay people, farmers, innocent little f***ing kids! I could give two pieces of monkey s*** about their politics...nobody should have to worry about being murdered, kidnapped or disappeared for standing up against military oppression or fighting for basic human rights and dignity!

 

 

YOU GET YOUR STATS FROM AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. THERES A REALLY CREDIBLE f***ING SOURCE. THATS THE SAME BUNCH OF IDIOTS THAT YELL THE SKY IS FALLING EVERY TIME SOME CRIMINAL GETS EXECUTED. WHEN IT COMES TO THIS SORT OF THING THESE ASSHOLES MAKE CHICKEN LITTLE LOOK LEVEL HEADED.

 

Wow, who would expect Nuke to use *data* or *facts* to back up his claims?? Show me the data that makes the US government not responsible for the training and usage of that training in Central and South America, Nuke.

 

Since you brought up capital punishment, show me that cap. punishment is even a deterrant to crime. I'd really like to see that data, Nukey Nuke.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by sideshowapu

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

Originally posted by sideshowapu

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

 

 

I MADE MY POINT ABOUT THIS ALREADY.  YOU USE THE CONVIENENT FACT THAT A SMALL NUMBER OF SOUTH AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL WE TRAINED MISUSED THEIR TRAINING & KILLED INNOCENTS AS A COVER FOR LOBBYING FOR THE DISMANTLING OF A SCHOOL THAT TRAINS OUR FRIENDS DOWN SOUTH TO FIGHT COMMUNISTS.  YOU DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE AT ALL.  YOU WANT US TO STOP TRAINING THOSE PEOPLE TO KICK THE ASS OF YOUR MARXIST PALS DOWN THERE.

 

A small handful, Nuke?

Maybe you'd like to look at the numbers:

* 2/3 of the Columbian military has been indicted for human rights violations (torture and murder of small children, labor activists, church workers) and they were SOA graduates.

* Colonel Uribe of Columbia, an SOA grad, is one of the most notorious human rights abusers authorizing the fumagation to crops of people opposing military dictatorships along with numerous kidnappings and murders that have taken place in Columbia.

* Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia who privatized the water supply so over 70% of the people couldn't afford water. When they peacefully protested, he assigned snipers and the military to kill protesters.

* 20 out of the 26 officers indicted for the EL Mazote massacre of 900 villagers (over 1/2 under age 12...tell me again how those are Marxist rebels Nuke...I'd like to hear your explanation)

* the Jesuit massacre of 6 Jesuit priests, their housekeeper and the housekeeper's daughter (trained by the US...the Atacotl battallion was the responsible party and had just come back 24 hrs. fresh from US training when they did this)...tell me Nuke, was the housekeeper's daughter a communist fighter also? a teenage girl?!

 

Nuke, if you actually believe that we're killing leftist guerrillas, for the most part you're absolutely incorrect. In Columbia, for example, the paramilitaries are responsible for over 90% of the human rights violations occuring there according to Amnesty International.

Yes, groups like the FARQ are minority groups when coming to having any power in committing any sort of human rights abuses. They are nowhere near as prolific in the murder of innocents as SOA graduates are.

 

The SOA has caused the death of thousands of victims throughout Central and South America. If you believe it is Marxist that the people be able to democratically elect their government, that they can live without fear of being "disappeared" for being a labor activist for shorter hours and higher wages, if they want enough money to feed their family and have a basic life...Peasants should be able to farm their land without corporations like United Fruit owning over 1/2 their country. They peacefully try to buy it back at the same price UF was buying. UF's response? Send in the Marine Corps to decimate the farmers.

 

Nuke, people are dying. Churchwomen, lay people, farmers, innocent little f***ing kids! I could give two pieces of monkey s*** about their politics...nobody should have to worry about being murdered, kidnapped or disappeared for standing up against military oppression or fighting for basic human rights and dignity!

 

 

YOU GET YOUR STATS FROM AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. THERES A REALLY CREDIBLE f***ING SOURCE. THATS THE SAME BUNCH OF IDIOTS THAT YELL THE SKY IS FALLING EVERY TIME SOME CRIMINAL GETS EXECUTED. WHEN IT COMES TO THIS SORT OF THING THESE ASSHOLES MAKE CHICKEN LITTLE LOOK LEVEL HEADED.

 

Wow, who would expect Nuke to use *data* or *facts* to back up his claims?? Show me the data that makes the US government not responsible for the training and usage of that training in Central and South America, Nuke.

 

Since you brought up capital punishment, show me that cap. punishment is even a deterrant to crime. I'd really like to see that data, Nukey Nuke.

 

I AGREE WITH YOU THERE. CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IS A JOKE. IT GOT THAT WAY BECAUSE YOU LEFTISTS HAVE HAD IT WATERED DOWN TO THAT POINT. CAP PUNISHMENT IS IMPOSED ARBITRARILY AND NOT IN A UNIFORM MANNER. YOU MAKE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT A STANDARD PENALTY FOR CRIMES SUCH AS MURDER & DRUG DEALING & BACK IT UP WITH A STRONG LIMITATION OF THE APPEALS PROCESS (WHICH TAKES AN AVERAGE OF 7 YEARS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO GO THROUGH) AND WATCH CRIME TAKE A NOSE DIVE.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by sideshowapu

Originally posted by CubKilla

Originally posted by cwsox

 

To understand what has affected the life of either Ligue, and respond to each with the appropriate sentence for each one as determined by the court, means we may rescue one young man from following the sad footsteps of his father, while the father gets a much needed reality check and gets his head straight while serving whatever sentence the court finds appropriate.

 

 

 

The criminal justice system in this country is a joke. If the courts had clue one on how to deal with Ligue (the father) he'd have been in jail for all his previous offenses. As for the punk kid..... quit making him out to be the victim. His life path is set towards violence and lawlessness. Good thing a liberal lawyer will be there to defend his best interests after he batters or maybe kills the next person that, to quote the little Ligue, "looked at me and flipped me off" a certain way. Where's the voice in this country for the victim?

 

I agree that the kid should face up and pay for that assbeating he laid on Tom Gamboa. However, I also think that the heads of Enron and WorldCom, etc. should also see jailtime. What about the thousands of workers who lost their pensions and stuff because of Kenny Lay and Co.? What about a voice for those victims?!?!

What about the voice of the victims of those killed and tortured by SOA graduates? They've gone through a lot of s*** and the US has said nothing about it's responsibility for training these cold hearted bastard perps. What about the voices for those victims, CubKilla?

 

IF YOU HAD WATCHED THE NEWS AT ALL IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN A PARADE OF CORRUPT EXECS ON THEIR WAY TO FEDERAL PRISON FOR WHAT THEY DID.

 

AS FOR YOUR "VICTIMS" IN SOUTH AMERICA I REALLY FIND IT FUNNY THAT YOU LEFTISTS ARE SO EAGER TO MAKE EXCUSES TO LET CRIMINALS ( A LOT OF INNOCENT VICTIMS INVOLVED HERE ) HERE OFF THE HOOK WHILE DEMANDING THE HEADS OF PHANTOM "WAR CRIMINALS" IN FOREGIN COUNTRIES. THE HYPOCRASY HERE IS JUST STAGGERING.

 

YOU PEOPLE ARE TOTALLY SHAMELESS

[doubleM23]

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

 

IF YOU HAD WATCHED THE NEWS AT ALL IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN A PARADE OF CORRUPT EXECS ON THEIR WAY TO FEDERAL PRISON FOR WHAT THEY DID.

 

And I'm sure they'll learn their lesson in a minimun-security prison full of other "white collar criminals" in quarters more luxurious than 95% of the places people "earn."

 

Man, for a swanky pad paid for by the taxpayers of America, I'd TRY and get caught.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

 

IF YOU HAD WATCHED THE NEWS AT ALL IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN A PARADE OF CORRUPT EXECS ON THEIR WAY TO FEDERAL PRISON FOR WHAT THEY DID.

 

AS FOR YOUR "VICTIMS" IN SOUTH AMERICA I REALLY FIND IT FUNNY THAT YOU LEFTISTS ARE SO EAGER TO MAKE EXCUSES TO LET CRIMINALS ( A LOT OF INNOCENT VICTIMS INVOLVED HERE ) HERE OFF THE HOOK WHILE DEMANDING THE HEADS OF PHANTOM "WAR CRIMINALS" IN FOREGIN COUNTRIES.  THE HYPOCRASY HERE IS JUST STAGGERING.

 

YOU PEOPLE ARE TOTALLY SHAMELESS

 

 

Nuke, I meant a federal 'pound me in the ass' type prison. Not a white collar resort prison where they play bocce ball all afternoon.

And tell me Nuke, when I have I asked for a criminal to be released or let off? Please, inform me!!!!

 

I demand peace. War hasn't gotten us anywhere except lots of corpses and lots of hatred. Let's dump millions into fighting an endless war. People can live in peace if given a chance...we're too anxious to use fists and weapons to solve our problems.

 

Baggs and Nuke, bin Laden was trained by the US. Isn't it great to see stuff like this blow back in our face? We run around with 8% of the world population and control approx 40% of the wealth, we s*** all over the environment, s*** all over everybody in our quest to be greedy f***s and get the most wealth without worrying about consequences...then we wonder why the international community dislikes us so much?

 

I am appreciative that I live in a country where I can come out and voice my displeasure for my governmental policies...every person should have that right. I would like the day to come where I can say that I am proud to be an American.

Foreign policy, our political parties being so beholden to money, the inequalities of the US social structure...makes me sick to my stomach.

But if you want peace, work for justice. Social justice and peace...it's quite nice not having to use missiles and guns as our main diplomacy method. If the US wouldn't be so goddamn greedy, we could live well with other people and start fighting the real f***ing enemies like the American Knights of the KKK, the administrations that authorize the slaughter and oppression of minorities, gays, lesbians, et. al. especially the Christian fundamentalists that are raping the f*** out of our nation's culture.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Originally posted by sideshowapu

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

 

IF YOU HAD WATCHED THE NEWS AT ALL IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN A PARADE OF CORRUPT EXECS ON THEIR WAY TO FEDERAL PRISON FOR WHAT THEY DID.

 

AS FOR YOUR "VICTIMS" IN SOUTH AMERICA I REALLY FIND IT FUNNY THAT YOU LEFTISTS ARE SO EAGER TO MAKE EXCUSES TO LET CRIMINALS ( A LOT OF INNOCENT VICTIMS INVOLVED HERE ) HERE OFF THE HOOK WHILE DEMANDING THE HEADS OF PHANTOM "WAR CRIMINALS" IN FOREGIN COUNTRIES.  THE HYPOCRASY HERE IS JUST STAGGERING.

 

YOU PEOPLE ARE TOTALLY SHAMELESS

 

 

Nuke, I meant a federal 'pound me in the ass' type prison. Not a white collar resort prison where they play bocce ball all afternoon.

And tell me Nuke, when I have I asked for a criminal to be released or let off? Please, inform me!!!!

 

I demand peace. War hasn't gotten us anywhere except lots of corpses and lots of hatred. Let's dump millions into fighting an endless war. People can live in peace if given a chance...we're too anxious to use fists and weapons to solve our problems.

 

Baggs and Nuke, bin Laden was trained by the US. Isn't it great to see stuff like this blow back in our face? We run around with 8% of the world population and control approx 40% of the wealth, we s*** all over the environment, s*** all over everybody in our quest to be greedy f***s and get the most wealth without worrying about consequences...then we wonder why the international community dislikes us so much?

 

I am appreciative that I live in a country where I can come out and voice my displeasure for my governmental policies...every person should have that right. I would like the day to come where I can say that I am proud to be an American.

Foreign policy, our political parties being so beholden to money, the inequalities of the US social structure...makes me sick to my stomach.

But if you want peace, work for justice. Social justice and peace...it's quite nice not having to use missiles and guns as our main diplomacy method. If the US wouldn't be so goddamn greedy, we could live well with other people and start fighting the real f***ing enemies like the American Knights of the KKK, the administrations that authorize the slaughter and oppression of minorities, gays, lesbians, et. al. especially the Christian fundamentalists that are raping the f*** out of our nation's culture.

 

SURE, OK, LETS DO IT YOUR WAY. LETS SPEND OUR WHOLE DEFENSE BUDGET ON FLOWERS & CANDY FOR TERRORISTS & TIN POT DICTATORS WHO POSSESS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HATE OUR GUTS AND ASK THEM REALLY NICE LIKE TO BE OUR PAL.

 

YOU SAY AMERICA MAKES YOU SICK TO YOUR STOMACH AND YOU ARE NOT PROUD TO BE ONE OF ITS CITIZENS BUT YOU SURE WILL REAP ITS BENEFITS. YOU CONTRIBUTE NOTHING TO THIS COUNTRY BUT YOU TAKE ITS BENEFITS AND THEN TURN AROUND AND TRASH IT WHENEVER AND WHEREVER YOU CAN. YOU WONT EVER HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY WITH ME UNLESS YOU EITHER SHOW SOME INTEGRITY & LEAVE THE COUNTRY YOU HATE SO MUCH OR LAY OFF THE CONSTANT AMERICA-BASHING.

[CubKilla]

Still nothing on how the leftists would deal with the Bin Ladens and the Husseins of this world. And, as a general point here Apu..... using statistics compiled by Amnesty International to back up your argument is tantamount to using statistics compiled by the NRA to back up an argument against gun control. Amnesty International is as left as you get. I would expect statistics from them that would back up your claims exclusively as gospel. Perhaps I'd buy your argument if you had statistics from a more moderate source.

 

As for white collar criminals..... last I checked the US Congress just enacted a litany of new laws to protect the workers and shareholders of US owned companies from fraud and debunking similar to what occured at WorldCom and Enron. This was handled diplomatically..... the US military didn't storm the WorldCom or Enron office execs so you should see the good in these new laws. And, in case you haven't been watching the news lately, many of the higher-ups in these fraud cases have been indicted and are awaiting trial.

 

As for the death penalty..... the reason why it isn't a deterrent is because the people most deserving of capital punishment are rarely sentenced to it as their fate. And if they are, there are so many appeals that they will rot on Death Row and zap the taxpayers out of more money trying to have the sentence lessened to life-in-prison. Trust me..... if page 6 of the Sun-Times and Tribune had 5 or 6 names of convicted murderers, rapists, child molestors/abusers, etc that the State executed EVERYDAY..... you'd see a big f***ing deterrent effect. The fact that gangbangers frequently recruit juveniles to commit gang murders of rival gang members shows a deterrent effect of present day laws and the punishment ascribed to each offense by the court. The adult gangmembers know a juvenile will not be eligible for the death penalty and will not receive as harsh a sentence as the adult would. Think these juvenile bangers would be so willing if they knew they'd end up on page 6 if caught? Now..... give me your Amnesty International statistics to debunk that theory :****

[Spiff]

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND

 

SURE,  OK,  LETS DO IT YOUR WAY.  LETS SPEND OUR WHOLE DEFENSE BUDGET ON FLOWERS & CANDY FOR TERRORISTS & TIN POT DICTATORS WHO POSSESS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HATE OUR GUTS AND ASK THEM REALLY NICE LIKE TO BE OUR PAL.

 

YOU SAY AMERICA MAKES YOU SICK TO YOUR STOMACH AND YOU ARE NOT PROUD TO BE ONE OF ITS CITIZENS BUT YOU SURE WILL REAP ITS BENEFITS.  YOU CONTRIBUTE NOTHING TO THIS COUNTRY BUT YOU TAKE ITS BENEFITS AND THEN TURN AROUND AND TRASH IT WHENEVER AND WHEREVER YOU CAN. YOU WONT EVER HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY WITH ME UNLESS YOU EITHER SHOW SOME INTEGRITY & LEAVE THE COUNTRY YOU HATE SO MUCH OR LAY OFF THE CONSTANT AMERICA-BASHING.

 

lol ownage.

 

1-2-3 count apu out.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Originally posted by CubKilla

Still nothing on how the leftists would deal with the Bin Ladens and the Husseins of this world. And, as a general point here Apu..... using statistics compiled by Amnesty International to back up your argument is tantamount to using statistics compiled by the NRA to back up an argument against gun control. Amnesty International is as left as you get. I would expect statistics from them that would back up your claims exclusively as gospel. Perhaps I'd buy your argument if you had statistics from a more moderate source.

 

As for white collar criminals..... last I checked the US Congress just enacted a litany of new laws to protect the workers and shareholders of US owned companies from fraud and debunking similar to what occured at WorldCom and Enron. This was handled diplomatically..... the US military didn't storm the WorldCom or Enron office execs so you should see the good in these new laws. And, in case you haven't been watching the news lately, many of the higher-ups in these fraud cases have been indicted and are awaiting trial. 

 

As for the death penalty..... the reason why it isn't a deterrent is because the people most deserving of capital punishment are rarely sentenced to it as their fate. And if they are, there are so many appeals that they will rot on Death Row and zap the taxpayers out of more money trying to have the sentence lessened to life-in-prison. Trust me..... if page 6 of the Sun-Times and Tribune had 5 or 6 names of convicted murderers, rapists, child molestors/abusers, etc that the State executed EVERYDAY..... you'd see a big f***ing deterrent effect. The fact that gangbangers frequently recruit juveniles to commit gang murders of rival gang members shows a deterrent effect of present day laws and the punishment ascribed to each offense by the court. The adult gangmembers know a juvenile will not be eligible for the death penalty and will not receive as harsh a sentence as the adult would. Think these juvenile bangers would be so willing if they knew they'd end up on page 6 if caught? Now..... give me your Amnesty International statistics to debunk that theory  :****

 

UN Truth Commissions have lots of data, CubKilla. Read the documentation from the government's truth commissions in the countries where these atrocities took place. How's that for moderate sources?

 

Also, about the bin Ladens and Husseins of the world. We wouldn't HAVE them if we used an alternative to our militaristic policy that has netted us all this hatred. But, I think that we could get international support by actually lifting some sanctions in Iraq (there are sanctions not allowing dolls, for instance, in Iraq...WTF does Saddam care about dolls?) I've seen pictures taken of civilians in Iraq that have been f***ed over because of these sanctions...and the people who took these pictures with Voices in the Wilderness said that Saddam's food distrobution program was the best they had seen.

It is the UN sanctions that are raping the Iraqi civilians. That is terrorism. If we stopped being the world mafia and had more peaceful means, the bin Ladens and such would lose a helluva lot of their support base because they wouldn't have such a legit cause to hate us. Ever think of that?

 

Also, the death penalty since it's inception has not been a deterrant to crime. Before gangbangers too, CubKilla. Also, if you're worried about your tax dollars being wasted it takes much more money to kill people via the state than pay for life in prison. (just look at the prices) And the possibility of innocent people being on death row? In IL alone, there have been numerous exonerations via DNA evidence...these innocent people would have been killed.

 

In my eyes, if a person committed a horrid crime, I think that having to spend the rest of their lives in an 8 x 10 cell for 23 hours a day is a much worse punishment than a needle in the arm. To waste time away in a prison cell is not only more humane but it seems a more fitting and cheaper punishment having to deal with their thoughts for 23 hrs per day for years.

[cwsox]

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Originally posted by cwsox

anyone who speaks of Oscar Romero, Ita Ford, and by inlucison, Maura Clark, Jean Donovan, and Dorothy Kazel, is someone that I will listen to for that person has much to teach and share.

 

 

 

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cubkilla responded:

 

Bulls***. Then share your ideas on how to deal with a Osama Bin Laden. Or Saddam Hussein. Those that advocate force have been asking all the leftists on this board for months now for their ideas on how Bush and the US should handle this situation. All we get are more f***ing links to liberal, sometimes borderline Socialist, garbage. Being moderate in my political views, I wish the whole Middle East crisis and the War on Terrorism could be settled with all sides sitting down and hammering out an agreement that all sides could agree on. BUT THAT ISN'T GOING TO f***ING HAPPEN..... NOT TODAY, NOT TOMORROW, NOT ANYDAY!!!!! What the Romero's, Fords, et al had in common is that they just couldn't come to the revelation that some people..... your Bin Laden's, Husseins, Islamic Fundamentalists, etc..... don't understand anything but violence.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

and my response: Cubkilla, I met you at a game and/or SoxFest and thought you were cool and hope we meet again and party a bit with our mutual friends.

 

However, your response indicates basic (total) lack of knowledge what you are talking about here. Ita Ford, Maura Clark, Jean Donovan, and Dorothy Kazel were three nuns and a Roman Catholic lay worker who were raped and killed on 2 December 1980 by the forces of Savlador's Roberto d'Aubbisson (spelling), who was backed by the US in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Archbishop Oscar Romero, killed during mass as he elevated the bread and wine, on 24 March 1980, was killed by the same forces. What you say is ill-informed here at best, and frankly, extremely offensive due to the nature of the deaths of these five Christian witnesses to social justice in Salvador, which has nothing to do with bin Ladin and Hussein.

 

And given that you are prone to outrageous and uninformed bursts of ranting to support your position, then I can easily evaluate the rest of your thinking here, which is, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

 

And there it is.

 

I sure do hope that these differences aside, when we meet again we can not deal with these things and enjoy our mutual friends and the joy of cheering for the Sox. I prefer to meet with friends over things that unite us, not divide us.