Official 2007-08 College Basketball Thread

[AddisonStSox]

Not that I post anymore, but...

 

LMFAO at Indiana, its fans, and the Indiana University basketball program.

 

Time to reap what you sow. You deserve everything that is coming your way and more.

 

Is there a more smarmy fanbase this side of the toothless hicks at Kansas?

 

"Setting the program back for multiple years...YES!".

[thedoctor]

If Carwell was driving that night and the same thing happened and he left Smith to die, he would have been gone long ago. As far as transferring, it happens all the time. It is ironic that Carwell will wind up gone long before Smith. Weber wanted Carwell to put in time. Apparently Smith's requirement was to do time. Its ridiculous he's still on scholarship. Make him pay his way through schol and let him be a walk on if he desires. He is going to get hazed next year, and all the people who threw crap at Gordon's family will call it a travesty. Such is Illinois athletics.

 

personally, this illinois fan/graduate thinks jamar will deserve whatever he gets from anyone next year.

 

then again, i also think the way gordon was treated was way overplayed and overhyped by media.

 

your "all the people who threw crap at Gordon's family" numbered probably two or three, btw.

Edited February 22, 2008 by thedoctor

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Not that I post anymore, but...

 

LMFAO at Indiana, its fans, and the Indiana University basketball program.

 

Time to reap what you sow. You deserve everything that is coming your way and more.

 

Is there a more smarmy fanbase this side of the toothless hicks at Kansas?

 

"Setting the program back for multiple years...YES!".

 

That is Ksate, the KU fans are the rich kansas city alumni.

[Jenksismyhero]

You do know Carlwell still suffers effects from the crash that nearly killed him, in large part due to the slow response time to the accident thanks to his "teammate" deciding he didn't need to call 911, but rather call Wayne McClain and let the neighbor call 911, don't you? Bruce Weber's comments on Carlwell were kind of like the program he runs, pathetic and out of control.

 

 

Isn't that MORE of a reason to redshirt? If you still suffer from those effects then heed the words of your coaches and advisors and get your s*** together. Fact is Carlwell was recruited by the likes of MSU and UNC. He was a good get for Weber. Instead of working hard and trying to live up to his potential, he's done jack for two years. Obviously he has the excuse of the crash, but he had these issues before the crash and he's continued these issues a year after. And lets not forget that it was Carlwells choice to transfer because he's not playing. I'm pretty sure Semrau, who is essentially in the same position as Carlwell (with one year more of eligibility), is content with taking a free ride through college rather than work on his game and actually contribute to the team.

 

And what do you have against Illinois exactly? Did you get rejected from the school? Are you holding a grudge? It's one thing to argue from a logical position, but everything you post with respect to Illinois is so blatantly biased its ridiculous.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Jenksismybitch

[Brian]

That is Ksate, the KU fans are the rich kansas city alumni.

 

Come on, Jimbo. You know you have fake teeth to get away from that "toothless hick" stereotype.

[hitlesswonder]

You did read the quote didn't you? He pretty much calls him lazy and says he was stubborn for not redshirting and basically says he's being a baby not getting into shape. I'd like to see Weber's dumbass get into shape with post concussion, seeing the person that put him into that state get preferential treatment. And I know the comments were Monday, but Weber knew the transfer was coming weeks ago, just like fathom and everybody else did.

 

I don't see how anyone can defend Weber and how he's handled the situation. If I was Brian Carlwell or a member of his family I would be outraged at Weber and the University of Illinois. It's pathetic that the basketball program "stands by" Jamar Smith because he can shoot and he's DJ Richardson's friend, but Carlwell gets pushed out of the program because he's having trouble dealing with a brain injury which was exacerbated by his teammates and an assistant coach leaving him injured in the car for who knows how long. It's a sign of how screwed up college basketball is that people are so outraged over Sampson making against-the-rules phone calls while no one really seems to care about what's going at Illinois.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Come on, Jimbo. You know you have fake teeth to get away from that "toothless hick" stereotype.

 

 

 

No way I am chicago born and raised, I hate the people of Kansas for the most part.

[AddisonStSox]

That is Ksate, the KU fans are the rich kansas city alumni.

 

No. Toothless hicks and those Chicago-landers that couldn't get into UI.

 

But, hey, if we accepted everyone, we wouldn't be the state's flagship university now would we?

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't see how anyone can defend Weber and how he's handled the situation. If I was Brian Carlwell or a member of his family I would be outraged at Weber and the University of Illinois. It's pathetic that the basketball program "stands by" Jamar Smith because he can shoot and he's DJ Richardson's friend, but Carlwell gets pushed out of the program because he's having trouble dealing with a brain injury which was exacerbated by his teammates and an assistant coach leaving him injured in the car for who knows how long. It's a sign of how screwed up college basketball is that people are so outraged over Sampson making against-the-rules phone calls while no one really seems to care about what's going at Illinois.

 

 

Someone explain to me where in the rule book it says "Thou shall not allow a player to transfer when he wants to." Cuz i'm pretty sure it does say, don't make too many phone calls, don't make too many phone calls while on probation, and don't lie to the NCAA. Oh yeah, totally comparable situations.

 

Wtf is Weber and Illinois supposed to do? Carlwell isn't in good enough shape to play. Lets assume you're right and he still has lingering effects. Weber wanted him to take a year off to work on those problems. Isn't that the right thing to do? At the beginning of the year he said this. Carlwell chose not to. Instead, Carlwell chose, like an idiot, to sit on the bench all season. I'd imagine it finally came to a point where Carlwell was complaining and Weber finally said, look you're not going to play because of X,Y,Z, so deal with it. It was CARLWELL'S CHOICE TO TRANSFER. I don't think anyone was pushed to do anything. I think a good coach was being a good coach and instead of lying to a kid he told him the truth. Was Weber supposed to play him out of pity? Should he get a starting spot because he was involved in an accident with a teammate and suffered injuries? I don't get your logic.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Before that blows up into anything ridiculous (not that this isn't already), IndyStar has it on record that it was DeAndre Thomas.

 

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...S0601/802220490

It was definitly Thomas. He and Ebanks were the two names when the inital report report came out months ago.

 

On second thought though, couldn't the blacked out name be multiple people? It appeared more than once in the report.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

No. Toothless hicks and those Chicago-landers that couldn't get into UI.

 

But, hey, if we accepted everyone, we wouldn't be the state's flagship university now would we?

 

 

or I just took my nice scholarship from Kansas, Illinois was not offering. I happened to be accepted by the U of Illinois, oh yes your s*** stinks too. Don't be too bitter that you could not get into Michigan or Wisconsin.

 

 

 

[Jimbo's Drinker]

I don't see how anyone can defend Weber and how he's handled the situation. If I was Brian Carlwell or a member of his family I would be outraged at Weber and the University of Illinois. It's pathetic that the basketball program "stands by" Jamar Smith because he can shoot and he's DJ Richardson's friend, but Carlwell gets pushed out of the program because he's having trouble dealing with a brain injury which was exacerbated by his teammates and an assistant coach leaving him injured in the car for who knows how long. It's a sign of how screwed up college basketball is that people are so outraged over Sampson making against-the-rules phone calls while no one really seems to care about what's going at Illinois.

 

 

IMHO, Weber is the one who should be fired.

[Heads22]

To be truthful, when I went to Manhattan, everyone there was pretty nice to us.

 

You imagine people from Kansas would have to be nice, or no one would come back to their state.

 

I also have to think that Manhattan is by far the toughest place to recruit to in the Big 12, even harder than Ames.

[Soxbadger]

IMHO, Weber is the one who should be fired.

 

Care to explain?

 

The University of Illinois makes the policy on whether a student should be suspended, kicked out, etc. The only thing Weber was in charge of was with Smith in terms of the basketball program.

 

If Weber's bosses said this is how to handle the situation, why would they fire him when he did what he was told?

 

Personally I dont think Weber did anything wrong. In my opinion drinking and driving is not the worst crime in the world, and yes something bad happened, but if everyone on the team and within the Administration feels that Smith's punishment should be X, thats what it should be.

 

but Carlwell gets pushed out of the program because he's having trouble dealing with a brain injury which was exacerbated by his teammates and an assistant coach leaving him injured in the car for who knows how long. It's a sign of how screwed up college basketball is that people are so outraged over Sampson making against-the-rules phone calls while no one really seems to care about what's going at Illinois.

 

Well people do care about whats happening in Illinois, its just not against any rules, so why would people be outraged?

 

DUI's happen all the time, im sure that plenty of people in the NCAA etc have gotten a DUI. A DUI is not an NCAA problem, it is a state of Illinois problem. The state of Illinois could have sent Jamar Smith to jail, but it did not. The University of Illinois did not even have to suspend Smith.

 

I guess my problem is that these are kids, and kids make mistakes. In college, especially at a campus like Illinois where you can get into bars at 19, underage drinking is common and accepted. People make mistakes and Smith is serving the time the University of Illinois and state of Illinois have deemed appropriate.

 

Sampson is an adult. Sampson was specifically told by the NCAA to not do something. Sampson to benefit himself and his school chose to cheat, he chose to cheat to gain benefit for himself.

 

That is far worse than making a mistake and driving in horrible conditions after you drank.

 

I guess im not going to throw stones, because I am no better or worse than Smith or Carlwell. Maybe I wouldnt have left the scene, maybe I would have called the police, but I dont know, Ive panicked before Ive made the wrong decision, and I would hope that my friends, teammates, and coach could eventually forgive me.

 

As for Carlwell being pushed out, so far Ive seen nothing to prove that. If anything Illinois wanted to keep him in the program, work with him to rehab him and get him back in shape. How is it pushing him out of the program to ask him to red shirt?

 

Thats the exact opposite, its trying to protect and keep a player in the program.

 

If your theory was true, Weber would have never wanted the red shirt because hed have wanted Carlwell's scholly off the books?

 

Or maybe Weber wanted to keep Carlwell for another year next year, burn a scholarship on him, and then have Carlwell transfer after next season?

 

Because thats basically what your arguing in terms of asking Carlwell to take a red shirt, since a red shirt keeps a player in the program an extra year.... Seems odd youd want to keep a player your trying to get rid of.

 

:shrugs:

 

People make mistakes, they should be given another chance. If Smith drank and drive again, hed be gone. I bet even if Smith is seen drinking under age he gone.

 

Sampson had his chance, after his big problem not only did he not get kicked out of OU, he got a better job and a nice raise.

 

Perhaps you can see the irony in an Indiana fan saying that a player should never get a second chance, because your University gave Sampson another chance....

[greasywheels121]

What Indiana fan said a player should never get a second chance?

[Dick Allen]

Care to explain?

 

The University of Illinois makes the policy on whether a student should be suspended, kicked out, etc. The only thing Weber was in charge of was with Smith in terms of the basketball program.

 

If Weber's bosses said this is how to handle the situation, why would they fire him when he did what he was told?

 

Personally I dont think Weber did anything wrong. In my opinion drinking and driving is not the worst crime in the world, and yes something bad happened, but if everyone on the team and within the Administration feels that Smith's punishment should be X, thats what it should be.

Well people do care about whats happening in Illinois, its just not against any rules, so why would people be outraged?

 

DUI's happen all the time, im sure that plenty of people in the NCAA etc have gotten a DUI. A DUI is not an NCAA problem, it is a state of Illinois problem. The state of Illinois could have sent Jamar Smith to jail, but it did not. The University of Illinois did not even have to suspend Smith.

 

I guess my problem is that these are kids, and kids make mistakes. In college, especially at a campus like Illinois where you can get into bars at 19, underage drinking is common and accepted. People make mistakes and Smith is serving the time the University of Illinois and state of Illinois have deemed appropriate.

 

Sampson is an adult. Sampson was specifically told by the NCAA to not do something. Sampson to benefit himself and his school chose to cheat, he chose to cheat to gain benefit for himself.

 

That is far worse than making a mistake and driving in horrible conditions after you drank.

 

I guess im not going to throw stones, because I am no better or worse than Smith or Carlwell. Maybe I wouldnt have left the scene, maybe I would have called the police, but I dont know, Ive panicked before Ive made the wrong decision, and I would hope that my friends, teammates, and coach could eventually forgive me.

 

As for Carlwell being pushed out, so far Ive seen nothing to prove that. If anything Illinois wanted to keep him in the program, work with him to rehab him and get him back in shape. How is it pushing him out of the program to ask him to red shirt?

 

Thats the exact opposite, its trying to protect and keep a player in the program.

 

If your theory was true, Weber would have never wanted the red shirt because hed have wanted Carlwell's scholly off the books?

 

Or maybe Weber wanted to keep Carlwell for another year next year, burn a scholarship on him, and then have Carlwell transfer after next season?

 

Because thats basically what your arguing in terms of asking Carlwell to take a red shirt, since a red shirt keeps a player in the program an extra year.... Seems odd youd want to keep a player your trying to get rid of.

 

:shrugs:

 

People make mistakes, they should be given another chance. If Smith drank and drive again, hed be gone. I bet even if Smith is seen drinking under age he gone.

 

Sampson had his chance, after his big problem not only did he not get kicked out of OU, he got a better job and a nice raise.

 

Perhaps you can see the irony in an Indiana fan saying that a player should never get a second chance, because your University gave Sampson another chance....

Smith could have a second chance, that's debatable. If Carwell died because of Smith's carelessness would you feel the same? He shouldn't be going to school for free. If he were a regular student he would have been expelled, I know because my father went to U of I when he was 16. He got caught with a fake ID. He was thrown out of school for a year.

 

I'm glad you aren't a lawmaker, , one where making phone calls is far worse than driving drunk, getting into an accident, and compounding your mistake by leaving your injured friend in the car to try and save your ass.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Soxbadger]

Smith could have a second chance, that's debatable. If Carwell died because of Smith's carelessness would you feel the same? He shouldn't be going to school for free. If he were a regular student he would have been expelled, I know because my father went to U of I when he was 16. He got caught with a fake ID. He was thrown out of school for a year.

 

Carlwell did not die, so its pretty irrelevant what penalty would be appropriate if he had died. It would be like saying:

 

"Well I got in an accident, and it could have been way worse. Luckily nothing really happened, but can I sue the other driver for the terrible things that may have happened?"

 

No you cant.

 

The facts are Carlwell was not seriously injured. Carlwell decided to get in the car he was not forced. He made a decision to get into the car and put his life at risk. In my opinion he is almost as guilty as Smith, he could have stopped Smith from driving, he could have said no to the ride.

 

In the end "could have" is all that it is.

 

If he were a regular student he would have been expelled, I know because my father went to U of I when he was 16. He got caught with a fake ID. He was thrown out of school for a year.

 

No you dont know. Your father was kicked out for 1 year, so what. Not every crime or criminal is treated the same way. Was your father in school in the last 10 years (no) so its not the same time, its not the same administration, its not the same attitude towards drinking.

 

I was caught using a fake ID 3 times when I went to Madison. I never even had to talk with the Administration, I was not put on probation, I was not suspended, no one cared. My roommate was given multiple public drinking tickets, he was never suspended, placed on probation, etc.

 

My other roommate was caught smoking dope by the RA, he was never disciplined, reported, or placed on probation.

 

I kept an illegal alligator in my apartment for a year, I was never placed on any sort of probation.

 

The only time I slightly got reported was:

 

Failure to go downstairs on a false fire alarm.

 

And even that went away.

 

So just because you have 1 example of where the administration was tough, there are a thousand of other examples where they just dont care. Im sure that there are people who want to U of I here and who got drinking tickets or there id's taken and were not suspended. So you cant just use your own personal experience to paint the administration.

 

I'm glad you aren't a lawmaker, , one where making phone calls is far worse than driving drunk, getting into an accident, and compounding your mistake by leaving your injured friend in the car to try and save your ass.

 

Well thats your first problem.

 

Cheating is not enforced by law makers, its enforced by the NCAA. I dont know of any illinois statute that says its against the law to make phone calls to recruit, care to find me one?

 

The problem is you keep comparing apples and oranges.

 

One being handled by the state and the school.

 

The other being handled by the NCAA.

 

See how those are not the same entities, the NCAA is not the state of Illinois, and the state of Illinois is not the NCAA.

 

So if the NCAA feels cheating is worse than drunk driving, thats THEIR problem. Perhaps you should talk to the NCAA and say that players who are caught drinking and driving should be suspended and lose eligibility to play in the NCAA, they have the power to do that.

 

And you shouldnt be upset im not a lawmaker, the lawmakers clearly agree with me as Jamar Smith already has been charged by the state of Illinois and that case has come to its conclusion. So clearly the state of Illinois feels that what Jamar Smith did was not that bad either....

 

The only people that seem to have a problem are those who either:

 

A) Dislike Bruce Weber

 

B ) Dislike Illinois

 

Because Leonard Little of the Stl Rams actually killed some one while driving drunk and all he received was a slap on the wrist, not sure why Smith should be held to a higher standard...

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...e-charged_x.htm

 

Yeah Little not only killed some one in 1999, but then six years later in 2004 was again arrested for drunk driving.

 

But I dont hear any one of you on a crusade against him....

Edited February 22, 2008 by Soxbadger

[Dick Allen]

Carlwell did not die, so its pretty irrelevant what penalty would be appropriate if he had died. It would be like saying:

 

"Well I got in an accident, and it could have been way worse. Luckily nothing really happened, but can I sue the other driver for the terrible things that may have happened?"

 

No you cant.

 

The facts are Carlwell was not seriously injured. Carlwell decided to get in the car he was not forced. He made a decision to get into the car and put his life at risk. In my opinion he is almost as guilty as Smith, he could have stopped Smith from driving, he could have said no to the ride.

 

In the end "could have" is all that it is.

No you dont know. Your father was kicked out for 1 year, so what. Not every crime or criminal is treated the same way. Was your father in school in the last 10 years (no) so its not the same time, its not the same administration, its not the same attitude towards drinking.

 

I was caught using a fake ID 3 times when I went to Madison. I never even had to talk with the Administration, I was not put on probation, I was not suspended, no one cared. My roommate was given multiple public drinking tickets, he was never suspended, placed on probation, etc.

 

My other roommate was caught smoking dope by the RA, he was never disciplined, reported, or placed on probation.

 

I kept an illegal alligator in my apartment for a year, I was never placed on any sort of probation.

 

The only time I slightly got reported was:

 

Failure to go downstairs on a false fire alarm.

 

And even that went away.

 

So just because you have 1 example of where the administration was tough, there are a thousand of other examples where they just dont care. Im sure that there are people who want to U of I here and who got drinking tickets or there id's taken and were not suspended. So you cant just use your own personal experience to paint the administration.

Well thats your first problem.

 

Cheating is not enforced by law makers, its enforced by the NCAA. I dont know of any illinois statute that says its against the law to make phone calls to recruit, care to find me one?

 

The problem is you keep comparing apples and oranges.

 

One being handled by the state and the school.

 

The other being handled by the NCAA.

 

See how those are not the same entities, the NCAA is not the state of Illinois, and the state of Illinois is not the NCAA.

 

So if the NCAA feels cheating is worse than drunk driving, thats THEIR problem. Perhaps you should talk to the NCAA and say that players who are caught drinking and driving should be suspended and lose eligibility to play in the NCAA, they have the power to do that.

 

And you shouldnt be upset im not a lawmaker, the lawmakers clearly agree with me as Jamar Smith already has been charged by the state of Illinois and that case has come to its conclusion. So clearly the state of Illinois feels that what Jamar Smith did was not that bad either....

 

The only people that seem to have a problem are those who either:

 

A) Dislike Bruce Weber

 

B ) Dislike Illinois

 

Because Leonard Little of the Stl Rams actually killed some one while driving drunk and all he received was a slap on the wrist, not sure why Smith should be held to a higher standard...

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...e-charged_x.htm

 

Yeah Little not only killed some one in 1999, but then six years later in 2004 was again arrested for drunk driving.

 

But I dont hear any one of you on a crusade against him....

If there wasn't the "everyone deserves a second chance" attitude like you have perhaps Little wouldn't get another DUI, but there's really little one can do to keep him from driving unless you have him behind bars. You can send a message to Smith and any other U of I athlete by kicking his ass off the team or at least stripping away his scholarship. I like Bruce Weber. I do think his recruiting failure is why Smith wasn't kicked off the team. If he could bring players in like Self could, Smith wouldn't be needed so they would have done the right thing. How Smith could affect the record of the Illini basketball team was a huge factor in his "punishment." There is something terribly wrong with that. Of course I'm a guy who thinks schools should not lower their admission standards for the sake of their basketball and football records. I think in a way it cheapens everyone's degree.

[Palehosefan]

ESPN's Andy Katz reporting that IU and Sampson are talking settlement right now.

[thedoctor]

sampson, six players absent from indiana practice today

 

Dan Dakich is coaching IU’s basketball team in practice, but a number of the key Hoosier players are not there.

 

As far as we can tell, D.J. White, Jamarcus Ellis, Armon Bassett, Jordan Crawford, DeAndre Thomas and Brandon McGee are not at practice. That leaves IU with seven players practicing and six not there.

 

We don’t know exactly what that means, but it seems ominous after the reports today that players have been talking about a walk-out for Saturday’s game at Northwestern. There has been no official word on who will be available for that game.

 

The players who are practicing are playing against team managers. Dakich told the players that it is important that the players finish what Kelvin Sampson started this season.

 

Assistant coach Jeff Meyer is participating in the practice. Assistant coach Ray McCallum is not there.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Would Gordon by himself be able to beat NU? Yes.

[farmteam]

Yeah, the past two days have been pretty crazy. It's hard to know what to believe, though most reports now are saying fired/suspended/resigned, which means he's gone right away, in any case (except in the case of suspended, then he'll be gone in 10 days, but he wouldn't be coaching between now and then).

[Cerbaho-WG]

If the aforementioned players do not travel to Northwestern, I'd be shocked. It would be such a selfish, immature thing to do that would not only tarnish any respect fans would have for them, but also destroy any prospect of them playing at a higher level than college ball.

[farmteam]

There's supposedly a press conference at 6. Here's the link if anyone wants to watch:

 

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/hoosiershq/stream.php

[whitesoxfan101]

Well it seems clear a buyout negotiation is going on, but wow IU has handeled this poorly. I would assume the school will suspend the players that skipped out today, I mean if they were too busy to go to practice, I would imagine they won't have time to play this weekend. Plus, IU would beat NW with 7 guys anyways.

 

EDIT: Sampson has signed a $750,000 settlement, and is officially out, per the Score.

 

Now, will the walkout happen? And if not, will they just let all the guys that skipped practice play?

Edited February 22, 2008 by whitesoxfan101