Official 2007-08 College Basketball Thread

[Jimbo's Drinker]

TaTa coach scumbag

[Rex Hudler]

Here is what I hope will happen...

 

Coach Sampson will talk to the players as part of his buyout agreement and cooler heads will prevail. The players who missed practice today will be forgiven considering the situation. I'm not such a hard ass that I am going to call for players to be suspended or benched. This is obviously an emotional time for them and I understand them wanting to defend their coach. Regardless of what people want to say about Coach Sampson, it is obvious that he had a great relationship with his players and they looked up to him.

 

Look at it from their point of view...

 

1. IU found and reported the violations in the fall.

2. Sampson was punished and additional restrictions were placed on the program at that time

3. The NCAA report came out not adding much new to what was already reported but accused Sampson of lying to or misleading investigators.

4. Sampson states he did not intentionally mislead or lie to investigators

 

The kids don't understand why this is happening because they believe Sampson. They are emotionally invested which means they are not thinking logically.

 

The right thing to do is to let them come back to their senses and rebuild this team emotionally. That starts by putting things back together, not by punishments.

[Soxbadger]

If there wasn't the "everyone deserves a second chance" attitude like you have perhaps Little wouldn't get another DUI, but there's really little one can do to keep him from driving unless you have him behind bars. You can send a message to Smith and any other U of I athlete by kicking his ass off the team or at least stripping away his scholarship. I like Bruce Weber. I do think his recruiting failure is why Smith wasn't kicked off the team. If he could bring players in like Self could, Smith wouldn't be needed so they would have done the right thing. How Smith could affect the record of the Illini basketball team was a huge factor in his "punishment." There is something terribly wrong with that. Of course I'm a guy who thinks schools should not lower their admission standards for the sake of their basketball and football records. I think in a way it cheapens everyone's degree.

 

Well I dont believe everyone deserves a second chance.

 

I do believe that I do not have better information than the University of Illinois or the County of Champaign. If they believe that this is an appropriate punishment, that is their job and decision to make. But Im not about to blame Bruce Weber.

 

Is it Weber's fault that the prosecutor made a deal? Because its the prosecutors job to prosecute and convict criminals, so if he made a deal I doubt it was because he wanted to make sure that Jamar Smith stayed on the Illini basketball team to help recruiting.

 

As for the prosecution, I cant speak on it. I have not reviewed the court files or anything, but I guess if you know the reason why the prosecutor accepted a plea bargain, than you have some inside information.

 

I do think his recruiting failure is why Smith wasn't kicked off the team. If he could bring players in like Self could, Smith wouldn't be needed so they would have done the right thing. How Smith could affect the record of the Illini basketball team was a huge factor in his "punishment."

 

Self can bring in players with the best of them, but Brandon Rush received no punishment and he had warrants out for him for failing to appear in court.

 

Or what about Memphis,

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7791324...Memphis-program

 

Most of these players receive no punishment. Gullickson on Wisconsin has 3 under age drinking offenses, he was not even suspended from the team, he is a walk on with a scholly. Do you think that Wisconsin is keeping him because they need his talent?

 

Or maybe is it that these programs feel a responsibility towards their players and just because they made a mistake they arent going to disown them and leave them out to dry. They are going to help these kids try and fix their lives and become better people

 

Of course I'm a guy who thinks schools should not lower their admission standards for the sake of their basketball and football records. I think in a way it cheapens everyone's degree.

 

I disagree, those players make your degree.

 

A prime example of this is Wisconsin. In the early 80's Wisconsin was not a top Big 10 University and it had a horrible sports program. In the mid 90's Wisconsin started to improve its sports program and the applicants for the school started to become better. After the final 4 appearance in 1999, the university of Wisconsin's applications drastically increased. Due to this increase Wisconsin began to only accept better and better students. As a result of this Wisconsin's rating as a University has been increasing as well.

 

So I thank all of the players who have given to my University, because they have made my degree worth something. At the end of the day a valuable sports program is one of the most important things at a school.

[Cerbaho-WG]

At the end of the day a valuable sports program is one of the most important things at a school.

 

This is absolute bulls*** and you know it. Are all of the Ivy League schools good because of their prestigious sports teams? Does Cal Berkeley, any private liberal arts college, or even IU offer a great education because of sports? No, it's because former alumni donate to the school. Hell, the Kelley School of Business at IU pulls in tens of millions of dollars without any help of the basketball team.

 

Hearing your asinine argument just wants me to have colleges abandon sports altogether and focus on education like they should. Universities were created to learn, not so you can play sports.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Well I dont believe everyone deserves a second chance.

 

I do believe that I do not have better information than the University of Illinois or the County of Champaign. If they believe that this is an appropriate punishment, that is their job and decision to make. But Im not about to blame Bruce Weber.

 

Is it Weber's fault that the prosecutor made a deal? Because its the prosecutors job to prosecute and convict criminals, so if he made a deal I doubt it was because he wanted to make sure that Jamar Smith stayed on the Illini basketball team to help recruiting.

 

As for the prosecution, I cant speak on it. I have not reviewed the court files or anything, but I guess if you know the reason why the prosecutor accepted a plea bargain, than you have some inside information.

Self can bring in players with the best of them, but Brandon Rush received no punishment and he had warrants out for him for failing to appear in court.

 

Or what about Memphis,

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7791324...Memphis-program

 

Most of these players receive no punishment. Gullickson on Wisconsin has 3 under age drinking offenses, he was not even suspended from the team, he is a walk on with a scholly. Do you think that Wisconsin is keeping him because they need his talent?

 

Or maybe is it that these programs feel a responsibility towards their players and just because they made a mistake they arent going to disown them and leave them out to dry. They are going to help these kids try and fix their lives and become better people

I disagree, those players make your degree.

 

A prime example of this is Wisconsin. In the early 80's Wisconsin was not a top Big 10 University and it had a horrible sports program. In the mid 90's Wisconsin started to improve its sports program and the applicants for the school started to become better. After the final 4 appearance in 1999, the university of Wisconsin's applications drastically increased. Due to this increase Wisconsin began to only accept better and better students. As a result of this Wisconsin's rating as a University has been increasing as well.

 

So I thank all of the players who have given to my University, because they have made my degree worth something. At the end of the day a valuable sports program is one of the most important things at a school.

 

 

Rush had parking tickets, little different. Self has canned a few players for being "thugs". This is one thing I can respect about him.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

This is absolute bulls*** and you know it. Are all of the Ivy League schools good because of their prestigious sports teams? Does Cal Berkeley, any private liberal arts college, or even IU offer a great education because of sports? No, it's because former alumni donate to the school. Hell, the Kelley School of Business at IU pulls in tens of millions of dollars without any help of the basketball team.

 

Hearing your asinine argument just wants me to have colleges abandon sports altogether and focus on education like they should. Universities were created to learn, not so you can play sports.

 

You've neard heard the saying that athletics are the front porch of a university I'm guessing. It's a good saying, because although the front porch doesn't make the house, just as the sports program doesn't make the university, everybody sees it people will often judge it based upon what the front porch looks like because people are judgemental. While I agree that sports are way down on the totem pole of importance in academia, to say they aren't a factor is just inaccurate.

 

The 2003 NIU football season led to the school having double the applications sent for enrollment as the school has ever seen. President Peters even admitted the success of the football team during that timespan of about 2002-2006 did a lot for the growth of the university, and in the last five years funding for ALL programs here has risen exponentially, leading to the building of several new facilities such as the Barsema Alumni Hall and the Yordon Center, which is mostly centered on academics for athletes in fact.

 

I see your point that Ivy league schools don't need athletics, but most schools aren't Ivy League schools, and I'd be willing to guess that you could find a lot of stories similar to NIU in which the revitilization of the athletic program turned out to be quite fruitful for the school. So, with that said, to dismiss the post you quoted so vehimately is inaccurate. College sports probably shouldn't matter that much, but they do.

Edited February 23, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[gbuk]

Offensively they've been erratic, sure, but both of them bring it to the defensive end just about every night. That's why -- bringing this back to my original question -- I wouldn't worry about a team that is 'guard-oriented'. I'm fairly confident that our top three can match up (defensively) with just about anyone's in the nation. The issue arises when we face a team with athletic (or just plain talented) #3-4 types -- guys that spring to mind are Alexander at WVU, Adrien at UConn, Singler for Duke (although I'm fairly certain if we didn't get the treatment from the refs -- something like an 11 foul difference between the two teams -- we win that game), Clark for Louisville. Obviously there are other factors at play, but we simply don't have a matchup for those types. Add in a better-than-competent big man -- Thabeet, Mr Facilitator (Padgett), Harangody -- and Marquette is in a LOT of trouble.

 

That's why I'm cautiously optimistic about Mbakwe. He plays much bigger than his 6'7 (?) frame.

 

And fathom's Sweet 16 statement isn't completely off-the-wall. So long as they finish out the season relatively well, they should be in that 5-8 range as far as seeding, so they'll most likely be a first round favorite. Of course, a 5-to-8 seed would make them a second round underdog, but unless it's an 8-vs-2 or 7-vs-3 matchup, they wouldn't be that much of an underdog.

 

My expectations right now are at 1.5 wins -- I think the final four Big East games will determine whether that number goes up or down a half a win.

 

I agree with this. It's more of the tweeners rather than traditional big men that can be killers, especially for an undersize team like you guys. I'm not saying a Sweet 16 is totally impossible, I just don't see it happening, that's all. Didn't mean anything by it really, just came off a little harsher than it was meant to be.

 

The problem with what you're saying about their mismatches is that a lot of teams have exactly what kills Marquette, especially in the seeding range they'll get...but won't even bother discussing that until tourny time and we know exactly where they are.

 

[gbuk]

Wonderful -- more of the "It's all James' fault!" crowd. I get enough of that up here. If you've watched even a reasonable amount of Marquette basketball over the past couple seasons, it's clear how much worse of a team Marquette is when James is off the floor. Does that make James a great player? No, not in the least. But I absolutely hate it that the faults of Tom Crean (not having a good gameplan against teams with a zone, among other things) are put on the shoulders of DJ.

 

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. Not having James is much worse than having a struggling James on the floor. The point is, how he goes, the team seems to go. And down the stretch the last 2 years the team has faltered the same way James has. See where I'm going with this? It's not his fault, and actually think he's a solid player because he can still make things happen when his shot isn't falling.

 

I'm not a big fan of Tom Crean at all, never really have been since DWade left, because he hasn't proven he can do anything without a future NBA stud.

 

General question for you though, what are Crean's faults in coaching, in terms of gameplans and etc.? Because I really do refuse to believe with a backcourt like this one that they should be as erratic as they are.

[Soxbadger]

This is absolute bulls*** and you know it. Are all of the Ivy League schools good because of their prestigious sports teams? Does Cal Berkeley, any private liberal arts college, or even IU offer a great education because of sports? No, it's because former alumni donate to the school. Hell, the Kelley School of Business at IU pulls in tens of millions of dollars without any help of the basketball team.

 

Um what are you talking about?

 

Ivy league schools take their sports very seriously, they offer "scholarships" (they are "need" based, not based on "athleticism"). Ever heard of Dan Jiggets, he went to Harvard...

 

Where did I say that the reason those schools offer great education is because of sports? I said that they get national recognition, which leads to getting better applicants, which leads to the school improving its national rank, which then improves its prestige.

 

Not to mention you are comparing ivy league schools to INDIANA which is not even a top 50 school. Ivy league schools get the best of the best in terms of applicants, every single kid I knew that went to ivy league never even cared about sports, so the fact that their school wasnt a sports school didnt matter.

 

Conversely Big 10 schools, which are for much more mainstream students, sports does play an important role in how people decide to go to school.

 

Case in point,

 

The year before Wisconsin went to the Final Four, 5 people went to University of Wisconsin from my HS. The year Wisconsin went to the Final Four over 20 people went to Wisconsin. These were all the same type of students, except more started choosing Wisconsin over Michigan....

 

 

No, it's because former alumni donate to the school. Hell, the Kelley School of Business at IU pulls in tens of millions of dollars without any help of the basketball team.

 

Well all the large alumni donors I know donate for the sports programs.

 

/shrugs.

 

Its funny you bring up Indiana. When I was visiting there all they wanted to talk about was basketball and the 1986 championship and how there is still one fish or something missing from the fountain. The entire time I was there all they wanted to sell me on was their basketball program. The same can be said for Wisconsin, Michigan, and Illinois. (all wanting to sell sports) I cant remember 1 of them even talking about their academics, when they were trying to get me to decide which school to go to, all they wanted to tell me about was which was the highest rated party school, which had the best football team, which one had the library rated by playboy as the best place to pick up girls, etc.

 

Not exactly sure what school you went to, but Indiana whom offered me an academic scholarship, never once tried to sell me on their academics.

 

Jimbo,

 

I know, but a warrant is a warrant in the eyes of the law. I just was pointing out every program has problems (not saying Self is a bad guy or anything). Just that generally the team stands by its player.

 

101,

 

An odd time where we agree.

 

Im not saying sports are the most important thing, but to many of the applicants sports is more important than academic rank. When you are talking the difference between Purdue and Iowa this year, (both ranked 64 by US News) what will be the determining factor for many who get accepted into both? My experience has been the sports program. Most college students dont even know the major they are going to be taking, let alone are selecting schools for certain programs. What they know, what they hear, is about sports.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Soxbadger

[Dick Allen]

Um what are you talking about?

 

Ivy league schools take their sports very seriously, they offer "scholarships" (they are "need" based, not based on "athleticism"). Ever heard of Dan Jiggets, he went to Harvard...

 

Where did I say that the reason those schools offer great education is because of sports? I said that they get national recognition, which leads to getting better applicants, which leads to the school improving its national rank, which then improves its prestige.

 

Not to mention you are comparing ivy league schools to INDIANA which is not even a top 50 school. Ivy league schools get the best of the best in terms of applicants, every single kid I knew that went to ivy league never even cared about sports, so the fact that their school wasnt a sports school didnt matter.

 

Conversely Big 10 schools, which are for much more mainstream students, sports does play an important role in how people decide to go to school.

 

Case in point,

 

The year before Wisconsin went to the Final Four, 5 people went to University of Wisconsin from my HS. The year Wisconsin went to the Final Four over 20 people went to Wisconsin. These were all the same type of students, except more started choosing Wisconsin over Michigan....

Well all the large alumni donors I know donate for the sports programs.

 

/shrugs.

 

Its funny you bring up Indiana. When I was visiting there all they wanted to talk about was basketball and the 1986 championship and how there is still one fish or something missing from the fountain. The entire time I was there all they wanted to sell me on was their basketball program. The same can be said for Wisconsin, Michigan, and Illinois. (all wanting to sell sports) I cant remember 1 of them even talking about their academics, when they were trying to get me to decide which school to go to, all they wanted to tell me about was which was the highest rated party school, which had the best football team, which one had the library rated by playboy as the best place to pick up girls, etc.

 

Not exactly sure what school you went to, but Indiana whom offered me an academic scholarship, never once tried to sell me on their academics.

 

Jimbo,

 

I know, but a warrant is a warrant in the eyes of the law. I just was pointing out every program has problems (not saying Self is a bad guy or anything). Just that generally the team stands by its player.

 

101,

 

An odd time where we agree.

 

Im not saying sports are the most important thing, but to many of the applicants sports is more important than academic rank. When you are talking the difference between Purdue and Iowa this year, (both ranked 64 by US News) what will be the determining factor for many who get accepted into both? My experience has been the sports program. Most college students dont even know the major they are going to be taking, let alone are selecting schools for certain programs. What they know, what they hear, is about sports.

I have a real hard time believing most of the cream of the crop non athlete students base their college choice on the success of a football or basketball team. Maybe in the mid to late 80s it helped schools a little bit before cable really exploded because only the top sports schools were on television all the time and basically received free advertising.

BTW, McPhearson the Illini WR that Zook threw off the team for stealing a laptop, of course a far more serious crime than aggravated drunk driving in your book was sentenced to 180 days in prison. Smith only got a few weeks on a plea deal. Carwell was in the hospital for 4 days with a serious concusion, Smith initially thought he was dead, so like the coward he is, he ran. Smith gets a redshirt, so free room and board, free tuition, free books this year. There's something very slimey with that, and you know it. If he were projected to be a guy who scores 4 points a game, he would have lost his scholarship, most likely wouldn't have received the plea deal, and his life would be screwed. Certainly if you think Smith's offense is worthy of a second chance, you probably think McPhearson should have been slapped on the wrist.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Dick Allen

[thedoctor]

richmond kicked off waukegan team

 

not a good year for richmond. kid obviously has some growing up to do.

[Jenksismyhero]

I have a real hard time believing most of the cream of the crop non athlete students base their college choice on the success of a football or basketball team. Maybe in the mid to late 80s it helped schools a little bit before cable really exploded because only the top sports schools were on television all the time and basically received free advertising.

BTW, McPhearson the Illini WR that Zook threw off the team for stealing a laptop, of course a far more serious crime than aggravated drunk driving in your book was sentenced to 180 days in prison. Smith only got a few weeks on a plea deal. Carwell was in the hospital for 4 days with a serious concusion, Smith initially thought he was dead, so like the coward he is, he ran. Smith gets a redshirt, so free room and board, free tuition, free books this year. There's something very slimey with that, and you know it. If he were projected to be a guy who scores 4 points a game, he would have lost his scholarship, most likely wouldn't have received the plea deal, and his life would be screwed. Certainly if you think Smith's offense is worthy of a second chance, you probably think McPhearson should have been slapped on the wrist.

 

 

A) I don't think Soxbadger was talking about the "cream of the crop" applicants. If you have a school that has a 3.0 gpa for its entire student body, which increases to 3.5 because their sports programs are doing well, you're not getting the "cream of the crop" but you're certaintly getting much better students than you had before. Anyone denying the role of sports in the selection of a school (not THE factor, but certainly an important one) probably also believes that bball and football players are actually "student athletes."

 

B) I'm pretty sure McPhearson was also caught with firearms, which yes, makes it much more serious than Smith. And you still haven't addressed the point that the State didn't punish Smith severly, not even as severly as McPhearson. Instead they gave him, what, like 2 weeks in jail and a couple years probation. I think the mental state required to drink and drive (and make stupid decisions thereafter) is much less than the mental state required to have guns and rob people.

 

 

 

Soxbadger: attorneys/soon to be attorneys unite! (and I have the Bar in 3 days, I'm starting to freak out!)

[whitesoxfan99]

richmond kicked off waukegan team

 

not a good year for richmond. kid obviously has some growing up to do.

 

Absolutely. Luckily he is still 2 years away from playing in college.

[Heads22]

Beat Tech!

[fathom]

I am shocked to hear the news about Richmond! I wonder if the remaining players on the team had a party last night.

[Rowand44]

Daniel Ruffin has been arrested and charged with battery. Sad to see but this certainly helps our chances at not only the number 2 seed in the Lou but winning the whole thing as well.

[Dick Allen]

A) I don't think Soxbadger was talking about the "cream of the crop" applicants. If you have a school that has a 3.0 gpa for its entire student body, which increases to 3.5 because their sports programs are doing well, you're not getting the "cream of the crop" but you're certaintly getting much better students than you had before. Anyone denying the role of sports in the selection of a school (not THE factor, but certainly an important one) probably also believes that bball and football players are actually "student athletes."

 

B) I'm pretty sure McPhearson was also caught with firearms, which yes, makes it much more serious than Smith. And you still haven't addressed the point that the State didn't punish Smith severly, not even as severly as McPhearson. Instead they gave him, what, like 2 weeks in jail and a couple years probation. I think the mental state required to drink and drive (and make stupid decisions thereafter) is much less than the mental state required to have guns and rob people.

Soxbadger: attorneys/soon to be attorneys unite! (and I have the Bar in 3 days, I'm starting to freak out!)

Didn't some fugitive who shot a cop and left him partially paralyzed 40 years ago get sentenced to 30 days? The punishment doesn't often match the crime. There are flaws in the system. Smith probably got a little break for being an Illini basketball player considered to be a nice piece of the team. If Weber had thrown him off the team like Zook did McPhearson, it wouldn't surprise me that Smith wouldn't have even been offered a plea, or if he was, one that was a little more harsh. The university could still have taken action. People get thrown off teams all the time for things less serious than almost killing someone. I once was injured in a head on collision with a drunk driver. He crossed the center line and nailed me directly. There actually was a cop right behind me that saw the whole thing. It turned out my car was totalled, he had no insurance. I went to observe his court appearance and actually talked to the prosecutor who informed me he had no prior convictions, that they were dropping the charges. I was disgusted. I asked her how he would ever get an offense if it required a prior to procede. He probably would have had to kill me, just like Smith probably would have had to kill Carwell for any type of real justice to be served.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Dick Allen

[thedoctor]

Didn't some fugitive who shot a cop and left him partially paralyzed 40 years ago get sentenced to 30 days? The punishment doesn't often match the crime. There are flaws in the system. Smith probably got a little break for being an Illini basketball player considered to be a nice piece of the team. If Weber had thrown him off the team like Zook did McPhearson, it wouldn't surprise me that Smith wouldn't have even been offered a plea, or if he was, one that was a little more harsh. The university could still have taken action. People get thrown off teams all the time for things less serious than almost killing someone. I once was injured in a head on collision with a drunk driver. He crossed the center line and nailed me directly. There actually was a cop right behind me that saw the whole thing. It turned out my car was totalled, he had no insurance. I went to observe his court appearance and actually talked to the prosecutor who informed me he had no prior convictions, that they were dropping the charges. I was disgusted. I asked her how he would ever get an offense if it required a prior to procede. He probably would have had to kill me, just like Smith probably would have had to kill Carwell for any type of real justice to be served.

 

flaws in the system? sure. it's still the best one out there.

 

as i am sure i don't have to tell you, in our country "justice" is dictated by the judicial system, not the wants, opinions, or wishes of individuals. considering the concept of "justice" probably would get a different answer from just about anyone, i think it's absolutely just that flawed or not, our judicial system makes those calls.

 

and in that regard, in our system, america's system, smith most certainly received a just punishment as defined by the laws of our country.

 

now, if you want to debate the validity of that system, that's another topic probably best off for the filibuster.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Tons of good games in the annual event with tourney implications:

 

VA Commonwealth versus Akron

George Mason versus Ohio

Creighton versus Oral Roberts

Nevada versus So. Ill

And the most intriguing game of the day(screw you, state of Tennessee): Drake versus Butler

And another gem: Kent State versus St. Mary's

Wright State versus Illinois State

 

Pretty much all these teams have tourney hope and most fall within the bubble RPI range.

[Dick Allen]

flaws in the system? sure. it's still the best one out there.

 

as i am sure i don't have to tell you, in our country "justice" is dictated by the judicial system, not the wants, opinions, or wishes of individuals. considering the concept of "justice" probably would get a different answer from just about anyone, i think it's absolutely just that flawed or not, our judicial system makes those calls.

 

and in that regard, in our system, america's system, smith most certainly received a just punishment as defined by the laws of our country.

 

now, if you want to debate the validity of that system, that's another topic probably best off for the filibuster.

The University still could have stepped in and took away his scholarship. It would be interesting to see how many students have been kicked out of the U of I the past couple of years and what their offenses were. Someone getting a free ride should be held to even a higher standard IMO to keep the free ride. I think Smith's punishment was weak, but he really wasn't punished by the University. He had a redshirt year, big deal. I think Smith should have been thrown off the team, or at the very least, had his scholarship taken away and let him stay on the team and in school if he wanted to pay his way. Who knows maybe the same booster who paid for his defense would pay for his tuition.

[thedoctor]

The University still could have stepped in and took away his scholarship. It would be interesting to see how many students have been kicked out of the U of I the past couple of years and what their offenses were. Someone getting a free ride should be held to even a higher standard IMO to keep the free ride. I think Smith's punishment was weak, but he really wasn't punished by the University. He had a redshirt year, big deal. I think Smith should have been thrown off the team, or at the very least, had his scholarship taken away and let him stay on the team and in school if he wanted to pay his way. Who knows maybe the same booster who paid for his defense would pay for his tuition.

 

i don't think the code of conduct specifies immediate expulsion for a student who is convicted of drunken driving, which is the offense they would review in regards to any punishment since that is his charge. in fact, if the university hasn't made practice of dismissing first-time dui offenders, they would likely be setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

 

now, i understand the circumstances surrounding the incident (although i think people have taken many, many liberties with what happened that not, mainly off of hearsay and message board chatter) have made it exceptionally unsavory. i get that. but again, as i stated earlier on this issue, if smith knowingly and willingly "left a teammate to die" then why was he so roundly supported by the people who were there and knew what happened that night, including brian carlwell himself? to me, that reaction speaks volumes about what happened.

 

none of that is to absolve smith of anything. but i also think it's bunk to suggest he wasn't punished or got off easy in the context of how college athletes are routinely punished for dui's. i'd say there are very, very few occasions where players are suspended for an entire year, let alone a year and a half. certainly the circumstances of the night dictated a more severe penalty than normal, but to me the penalty he received is above and beyond any punishment i've seen for a dui case at any other school. if you can cite other instances where a similar penalty was dispensed, i'm all for hearing about it.

[Dick Allen]

i don't think the code of conduct specifies immediate expulsion for a student who is convicted of drunken driving, which is the offense they would review in regards to any punishment since that is his charge. in fact, if the university hasn't made practice of dismissing first-time dui offenders, they would likely be setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

 

now, i understand the circumstances surrounding the incident (although i think people have taken many, many liberties with what happened that not, mainly off of hearsay and message board chatter) have made it exceptionally unsavory. i get that. but again, as i stated earlier on this issue, if smith knowingly and willingly "left a teammate to die" then why was he so roundly supported by the people who were there and knew what happened that night, including brian carlwell himself? to me, that reaction speaks volumes about what happened.

 

none of that is to absolve smith of anything. but i also think it's bunk to suggest he wasn't punished or got off easy in the context of how college athletes are routinely punished for dui's. i'd say there are very, very few occasions where players are suspended for an entire year, let alone a year and a half. certainly the circumstances of the night dictated a more severe penalty than normal, but to me the penalty he received is above and beyond any punishment i've seen for a dui case at any other school. if you can cite other instances where a similar penalty was dispensed, i'm all for hearing about it.

The Tennessee punter got suspended for 5 games and lost his scholarship and his accident didn't hurt anybody, and he didn't compound his mistake like Smith did.

From USA Today:

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tennessee punter Britton Colquitt was suspended for five games and lost his scholarship after he was arrested on charges of DUI and leaving the scene of an accident early Sunday morning.

The 22-year-old hit a parked car around 2 a.m. ET and then fled the scene, said Lt. Mark Pressley, a Knoxville police spokesman.

 

"I am very disappointed that Britton doesn't appreciate the blessings he has been given from his family and his team," coach Phillip Fulmer said in a press release announcing the suspension Sunday evening.

 

"Along with the five-game suspension, I am taking his scholarship away and he will be required to undergo alcohol counseling as well as other internal punishments."

 

Pressley said Monday night that Colquitt was visibly intoxicated and could not complete field sobriety tests.

 

[thedoctor]

The Tennessee punter got suspended for 5 games and lost his scholarship and his accident didn't hurt anybody, and he didn't compound his mistake like Smith did.

From USA Today:

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tennessee punter Britton Colquitt was suspended for five games and lost his scholarship after he was arrested on charges of DUI and leaving the scene of an accident early Sunday morning.

The 22-year-old hit a parked car around 2 a.m. ET and then fled the scene, said Lt. Mark Pressley, a Knoxville police spokesman.

 

"I am very disappointed that Britton doesn't appreciate the blessings he has been given from his family and his team," coach Phillip Fulmer said in a press release announcing the suspension Sunday evening.

 

"Along with the five-game suspension, I am taking his scholarship away and he will be required to undergo alcohol counseling as well as other internal punishments."

 

Pressley said Monday night that Colquitt was visibly intoxicated and could not complete field sobriety tests.

 

you left the end of the story out, not surprisingly. here it is:

 

Colquitt, who decided not to enter the NFL draft and to return to Tennessee for his senior year, was suspended from the team as a freshman in 2004 when he faced multiple alcohol-related charges stemming from several incidents.

 

He was reinstated later in the year after he pleaded no contest to a charge of underage alcohol consumption and a judge sentenced him to nearly a year of probation.

 

again, this was smith's first offense.

Edited February 23, 2008 by thedoctor

[zenryan]

what a great week for Miami basketball. Beating Duke and smoking Maryland by 15 today.

 

19-7 and 6-6 in conference. 2 more wins and that should be good enough to make the dance for the first time in years!!

[Soxbadger]

Its funny, you mention Colquitt, but you leave out key facts as to why he was given his penalty:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3251463

 

Colquitt, who decided to return to Tennessee for his senior year and not to enter the NFL draft, was suspended from the team as a freshman in 2004 when he faced multiple alcohol-related charges stemming from several incidents. He was reinstated later in the year after he pleaded no contest to a charge of underage alcohol consumption

 

1) This was not Colquitt's first offense.

 

2) Colquitt is a senior with 0 years of eligibility left...

 

Which means if UT gave him the same penalty as Smith, he would never play another down.

 

Instead they only gave him a 5 game suspension and took away a scholarship so that he could still play this season.

 

If anything this penalty is way lighter than Smiths....

 

Jenks,

 

Good luck, if you have any questions just send me a pm and Ill give you any tips I can.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Soxbadger