whitesoxfan99 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Terrible call against Singler for his 5th there. I freaking hate when refs call games like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) Illinois just does not have the offensive fire power to hold up in this game. And they've played some terrible, terrible D. That sums up the game. I don't think the officiating was biased -- Duke is just better. Really, Duke's biggest advantage was quickness and the ability to penetrate. I'm a little surprised that McCamey and Alexander aren't better perimeter defenders. On the up side, there's some hope they can improve. I think UI chances of making the tournament hinge on Brock, McCamey, and Alexander. If they can step up and provide perimeter defense and some outside shooting I think UI has a decent chance to make the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 (edited) Illinois pulls to within 44-41 with 18 minutes left in the game, then goes 2 for their next 21 from the field. Ballgame, end of story. As for the game, I think Duke is actually a REALLY good team, perhaps a Final 4 contender, and Henderson and Nelson on the wings will give nightmares to a lot of teams this year. Illinois seems to have everything but a 2 guard, and as a result the defense will suffer against athletic and small teams like Duke since Randle is foul prone, Calvin is a bench player that is an exclusive 3 (and you can't bench Alexander because you need his offensive prescence), and Chet isn't big enough to guard wings, despite the fact he shuts down point guards every night. Besides that, Illinois will be better on offense this year but the lack of a stud 2 guard will still lead to some bad stretches like we saw tonight. I think this years team is modestly better than last years in a modestly worse Big 10, and hopefully they beat Okie State tomorrow to get out of the Islands at 4-1 overall, which isn't too bad. As for individual players, I was impressed with Rodney Alexander and here's why. Yes, he shot AWFUL, but he still managed to acquire 9 rebounds, with 6 of them on the offensive glass leading to some points. I wish he were a better defender though. Calvin Brock looks like a different player, he's really bulked up and seems to have figured out how to best use his strengths, which include defense. Chester had a rough game tonight, but his shot looks a bit better and I think he's a solid point guard overall (did have 9 boards tonight too). Pruitt missed some easy ones tonight, but he's still a beast, I have hope this is FINALLY Randle's breakout season, and Meacham and Holdren are USELESS. I'd also like to see more of Tisdale and wish we'd have seen Cole tonight, and McCamey is a very good talent but is lost in the motion offense and seems slow on defense, so he'll be very up and down this year IMO (down tonight). QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 10:17 PM) Jamar killed the team with his stupidity last year. So did Quinton Watkins not making it here, he was an ideal 2 guard for this system. If you have Jamar and Watkins instead of Mike Davis this year and in the future, then the Illini might really be onto something until the calvary that is the 2009 and 2010 classes show up. Edited November 21, 2007 by whitesoxfan101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Bring on Duke. Our guards should be able to handle their guards, but I really worry about guys like Singler and Henderson doing some major damage. I don't think we have anyone who can matchup against Singler -- the big three are going to have to play a phenomenal defensive game to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 11:31 PM) Bring on Duke. Our guards should be able to handle their guards, but I really worry about guys like Singler and Henderson doing some major damage. I don't think we have anyone who can matchup against Singler -- the big three are going to have to play a phenomenal defensive game to win. It's actually quite an even matchup, and I would say that Singler, who is the one difference between the teams, will be the thing that decides it depending on how he plays. Should be a great final. Edited November 21, 2007 by whitesoxfan101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 11:26 PM) That sums up the game. I don't think the officiating was biased -- Duke is just better. Really, Duke's biggest advantage was quickness and the ability to penetrate. I'm a little surprised that McCamey and Alexander aren't better perimeter defenders. On the up side, there's some hope they can improve. I think UI chances of making the tournament hinge on Brock, McCamey, and Alexander. If they can step up and provide perimeter defense and some outside shooting I think UI has a decent chance to make the tournament. Duke absolutely is better. Never said otherwise and officiating had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. But officiating in Duke games is nearly always biased towards Duke. Just one of the things you have to expect when you play them. They flop constantly and the officials always buy it (Scheyer's flop comes to mind tonight), they are allowed to handcheck away from the basket in ways no other team is allowed. Would not have made a difference tonight but I have seen refs come to Duke's rescue far too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 11:30 PM) , and McCamey is a very good talent but is lost in the motion offense and seems slow on defense, so he'll be very up and down this year IMO (down tonight). I think almost all of his problem is intensity and concentration based. He tends to get lazy at times and really does not always seem to be as into the game as he should be. He had the same problem in high school. He has to learn when you play a team like Duke you can't take plays off and you have to be decisive. He has a ton of talent but he has a tendency to coast. Most of his mistakes tonight had little to do with understanding the offense and everything to do with not playing with the type of intensity necessary against a team like Duke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 illinois is going to have some issues this year (like last year) because they don't have guards that can either shoot or take you off the dribble. that allows teams to really overplay out front and kind of negates some of the strength they have in the frontcourt. this is likely going to be a running problem all year, as it was last year. however, there were some encouraging things out of last night, notably brock and some of the newcomers. i like what i saw out of tisdale, mccamey, and davis and it seemed like illinois was at its best when it had some of the younger guys on the floor. alexander was OK, but they need more consistent offense out of him because he's one of the few explosive players they have. on the flip side, i tend to agree with fathom that randle just does not play smart basketball. i had to laugh when they left randle in with three fouls and said, "you have to rely on a senior to not pick up his fourth" and not even 30 seconds later he commits the typical randle "reachy" foul. that's just what he does, you can't expect otherwise. i also wasn't overly impressed with pruitt who did not have his best game. oh, one last thing. trent meacham is of no worth to this team right now. i see no reason to play him minutes at the expense of mccamey. mccamey may make mistakes and do dumb things, but i see no short- or long-term value added by meacham playing significant minutes. same for holdren. these guys are overmatched against good teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I agree with everything but the Randle comment with his 3rd foul - it was bogus. I rewatched the first half after the game and although the total fouls were pretty close, Duke was called for blatant fouls and Illinois was called for touch fouls. I HATE to b**** about officiating because 9 times out of 10 it's just blind fans b****ing about how their team got screwed. But it was SO obvious in this game that Illinois was called for the smallest infranctions. Meachums "foul" when he smacked Scheyer in the mouth - guess what, if you get up in someones face, you have to let the guy brush the defender off a little. The 3rd foul on Randle was crap. When you have a guy driving his shoulder into someone (purposefully making contact) you can't bail him out when the defender shows some strength and doesn't give him any room. That was total and complete crap. And then the kicker was with like 10 min to play both Frazier and Puolus (?) were going for a ball, and neither one touched each others body! They just both touched the ball and Frazier gets hit with a foul. In the end it probably wouldn't have mattered - but it sure messed with the flow of the game. Illinois played solid the first 10 minutes when the refs let them play. I'm still enouraged by what I saw. It's clear the team has 8 or 9 guys with pure athletic talent. It's just going to take time for Weber to teach these guys how to play. My only fear is that he won't be able to teach them how to hit a shot. Man they are a terrible jump shooting team. Maybe I was spoiled watching D-Will, Luther and Dee for so many years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:52 AM) I'm still enouraged by what I saw. It's clear the team has 8 or 9 guys with pure athletic talent. It's just going to take time for Weber to teach these guys how to play. My only fear is that he won't be able to teach them how to hit a shot. Man they are a terrible jump shooting team. Maybe I was spoiled watching D-Will, Luther and Dee for so many years... As far shooting goes, Frazier seems to have improved his shot significantly. Hopefully the same thing can happen for McCamey, and quickly. As far as athleticsm, UI has some guys that can jump, but their perimeter defenders outside of Frazier and Jordan seem slow to me. I was hoping Alexander would have more quickness. I think Weber has to start McCamey or Brock at the 2 and hope they step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuiceCruz16 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 (edited) Now I just root for the "Golden Warriors" to take down the Dookies! Edited November 21, 2007 by JuiceCruz16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Yeah at this point I'm convinced Brock needs to be in the starting line-up. Lets go big and athletic. We might suffer with speed, but I really don't see much drop-off. Maybe Weber likes Brock off the bench as a spark. He's improved a lot. Still can't hit that pull up jumper with consistency, but the fact that he can create and get a clean look like he did (at least 5-6 times last night) is good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 oklahoma state is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 So anybody have any idea on some kind of sports bar that might be open tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) Holy f***ing cripes -- how is that NOT a foul on Paulus yet they call it on Oose? Damn. Edited November 22, 2007 by CWSGuy406 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:03 PM) So anybody have any idea on some kind of sports bar that might be open tomorrow? I'm hoping SIU will be on ESPN or ESPN 2 at the last second. Otherwise, it is Reis online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 You know, going into a game versus Duke you expect the foul calls to be lopsided but there's not a whole lot that can actualy prepare you for it. 12 to 6 fouls tonight in the first half, wasn't it 13 to 6 last night for U of I? I don't necessarily disagree that Marquette had 13 fouls, but I know Duke committed more than six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(Brian @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:52 PM) I'm hoping SIU will be on ESPN or ESPN 2 at the last second. Otherwise, it is Reis online. There has to be SOMEWHERE, this is driving me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:54 PM) There has to be SOMEWHERE, this is driving me nuts. Dawg Vision online but you would have to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(Brian @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:56 PM) Dawg Vision online but you would have to pay for it. Not on there, already looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 How is when you put on a Duke uniform, you cannot possibly be called a travel on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 f*** these refs. Four fouls on Hayward, four fouls on McNeal. f*** 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonik22 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 QUOTE(Brian @ Nov 21, 2007 -> 09:52 PM) I'm hoping SIU will be on ESPN or ESPN 2 at the last second. Otherwise, it is Reis online. Same here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 If Duke and Marquette are only the 10th and 13th best teams, it's going to be a fun year. The refs were bad as you'd expect in a Duke game, but James has to be better than 4 of 12. Also, people need to wake up and realize that Ohio State is really good again, they just reload and Koufos is nasty. As for Illinois, coming home 4-1 is nice, and hopefully they can win at College Park against a mediocre Maryland team to get to 5-1 next week. The lineup switch worked great too, Brock was solid again and Meacham really seemed to get a wakeup call from being benched. McCamey also did a great job distributing, he set up most of the easy baskets (the few there were) it seemed like. Pruitt needs to stop fouling though, and I don't like to say this about college athletes, but I hate Brian Randle. Soft as tissue paper and a waste of talent, I will not miss the human foul machine next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 It's amazing how good the freshman class is. Beasley, Singler, Mayo, Griffin, Rose, Koufos, Bayless, and Love are just sensational talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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