Official 2007-08 College Basketball Thread

[Rowand44]

Well if a guy like Bone, (who I know nothing about and won't pretend to) who played sparingly last year is supposed to take over a lot of Tatum's role, it's going to be tough...I don't know what kind of talent this guy possesses, but putting a guy in a spot to take over for one of the best (the best maybe?) point guards in school history is rough. Transitions like this are never smooth, but I expect Lowery to figure it out, he's proven he knows what he's doing and he'll figure out a way to adjust to it.

 

I've only seen this game play almost 2 games (MSU, USC), and the main thing that stuck out to me was their defensive breakdowns against USC, which aren't like them. And for a team who makes their living off of grinding it out and uglying their way to victory, it's clear they can't afford that to happen.

 

They need more offensive weapons obviously, but that's seemingly always been a need. Falker can't do it all.

Bone has a crap load of talent, that's why people expected him to be the scorer. I shouldn't have said that I expected Bone to take over the Tatum role but I expected him to be the scoring guard on this team and right now absolutely nothing is falling for him. He took it to the basket more today than he has been so that's a plus but he still can't get anything to go.

 

And yes, I've been worried about the defense since the first exhibition game, it's not the same and it's not going to be as good as last year. Tatum and Young were just insanely good defensively and they were both in the system for a long time(Tatum for 4 and Young for 5 years). The defense is so freaking far off from last season.

 

Oddly enough, the offense isn't too far off from last season at this point and I actually believe it's running smoother, nobody is making shots at the moment though, NOBODY. And the best catch and shoot shooter that we have imo can't find minutes right now. I know Lowery wants to ease the freshman in but they need to be thrown into the fire right now cause they're two of our better shooters.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2007 by Rowand44

[gbuk]

Bone has a crap load of talent, that's why people expected him to be the scorer. I shouldn't have said that I expected Bone to take over the Tatum role but I expected him to be the scoring guard on this team and right now absolutely nothing is falling for him. He took it to the basket more today than he has been so that's a plus but he still can't get anything to go.

 

And yes, I've been worried about the defense since the first exhibition game, it's not the same and it's not going to be as good as last year. Tatum and Young were just insanely good defensively and they were both in the system for a long time(Tatum for 4 and Young for 5 years). The defense is so freaking far off from last season.

 

Oddly enough, the offense isn't too far off from last season at this point and I actually believe it's running smoother, nobody is making shots at the moment though, NOBODY. And the best catch and shoot shooter that we have imo can't find minutes right now. I know Lowery wants to ease the freshman in but they need to be thrown into the fire right now cause they're two of our better shooters.

 

Thing with mid-majors is that their recruiting is so much different than high majors I never have any clue what's going on unless one of them lands a big time recruit (hello Anthony Booker!) it's more of a diamond in the rough type thing, and I legitimately don't know about these guys unless I hear it straight from a hardcore mid-major fan (which I don't know many of, and I enjoy hearing about).

 

It's tough for guys like Bone when expecting so much so quickly...they're thrown right in because they have to be, there's no one else. I didn't take what you said about Bone taking over Tatum's role completely as meaning that because that's a whole different thing. Tatum was one of those special guards who did EVERYTHING...a guy anyone on any team needs. Although it's never necessarily entertaining to watch SIU play, watching Tatum was a pleasure, a nice change of pace. But I digress.

 

I totally forgot about Young...him, Tatum, and Mullins made the sickest backcourt defense, oh man. Losing 2 of those 3 and replacing them with guys who don't necessarily understand the system or have to be made into good defenders is very hard to do, and that's certainly what it feels like with you guys.

 

I agree with throwing the freshmen out into the fire, because the problem is, if they want to be a good team right now, you have to find a remedy for your problem, and if those freshmen bring that, there's no reason to ease them in...let them get experience. It might be tough at first, but it's better than leaving a less talented, more experienced player out there.

 

[Rowand44]

Thing with mid-majors is that their recruiting is so much different than high majors I never have any clue what's going on unless one of them lands a big time recruit (hello Anthony Booker!) it's more of a diamond in the rough type thing, and I legitimately don't know about these guys unless I hear it straight from a hardcore mid-major fan (which I don't know many of, and I enjoy hearing about).

 

It's tough for guys like Bone when expecting so much so quickly...they're thrown right in because they have to be, there's no one else. I didn't take what you said about Bone taking over Tatum's role completely as meaning that because that's a whole different thing. Tatum was one of those special guards who did EVERYTHING...a guy anyone on any team needs. Although it's never necessarily entertaining to watch SIU play, watching Tatum was a pleasure, a nice change of pace. But I digress.

 

I totally forgot about Young...him, Tatum, and Mullins made the sickest backcourt defense, oh man. Losing 2 of those 3 and replacing them with guys who don't necessarily understand the system or have to be made into good defenders is very hard to do, and that's certainly what it feels like with you guys.

 

I agree with throwing the freshmen out into the fire, because the problem is, if they want to be a good team right now, you have to find a remedy for your problem, and if those freshmen bring that, there's no reason to ease them in...let them get experience. It might be tough at first, but it's better than leaving a less talented, more experienced player out there.

Good stuff, man. You hit a lot of things right on the nose.

 

I'm sure people are tired of seeing me vent my frustrations here so this will be the last post on the matter tonight. I still believe this team has a lot of talent and can make a run some time along the way but right now it's ugly and it might not get better for a while.

 

[IlliniKrush]

Well Justin is still alive, always a positive

[Felix]

This Gopher team is going to shock some people this year.

[gbuk]

Good stuff, man. You hit a lot of things right on the nose.

 

I'm sure people are tired of seeing me vent my frustrations here so this will be the last post on the matter tonight. I still believe this team has a lot of talent and can make a run some time along the way but right now it's ugly and it might not get better for a while.

 

Ha, believe me man, I know what it's like to vent frustrations on message boards, I can understand it.

 

I wouldn't be too worried just yet, considering this was on the road against a relatively decent A-10 team and your other 2 losses came against one vastly underrated team IMO (USC) and Indiana...so who knows what this team will look like, but as long as they're prepared for conference season that's all that matters.

 

[Brian]

At least Shaw woke up yesterday. I never expected Mullins to become a big scorer. Just not his game.

 

I also agree with the point above that Bone can't be expected to be a big scorer right now based on how so little he played last year.

 

I'm more upset we gave up 70 pts.

[Rex Hudler]

It wasn't surprising that Jordan owned his brother. Joe has been one of the bigger busts in Kentucky history, coming off his 5 star, top 10 hype out of high school (along with his bust teammate Malik Hairston). Jordan is quicker, stronger, a better shooter, and better ball handler than Joe has ever been. Jordan defeating his brother that badly was the epitomy of Joe's career.

 

DJ was a man amongst boys only because Kentucky legitimately does have boys down there. Stevenson, Coury, Carter, Stewart, and Harris had no chance defending big men with the power that White and Thomas have. Patterson was not going to guard either to avoid foul trouble, and since Gillispie is set in man-to-man (making sure his style is instilled in these players for the long run) there weren't many adjustments they could make.

 

I like White and think he's a pretty solid player, but for the most part he's not the game changer/dominant big man some make him out to be. Just my opinion, but with Thomas and Mike White helping him out and with a loaded backcourt he doesn't need to be.

 

I know you mention that they only had one guard, but Ellis can absolutely play the two also with his ball handling skills...he's going to be a very good player...and besides, one guard against a team who lacks any competence with the ball, it's not too hard to win that battle.

 

Not exactly sure why you are wanting to argue here, but look at it however you want.

 

DJ has been playing very differently of late, rebounding more aggressively and shooting with confidence. Regardless of competition, DJ is getting better and more confident with every game. His success was not directly related to Kentucky's talent, but more about how he is approaching the game.

 

You can act as if it were no surprise that Jordan outplayed his brother, but I think you are alone in that regard. Jordan was asked to do things yesterday that he has not yet had to as a collegian. He has never played that amount of minutes. There was no fall back. To act as if one knows how a player will react in that situation playing against his older brother is ridiculous. Anyone can act smart after the fact. The 3-game suspension only made the possibilities more cloudy.

 

I know very well what Ellis can do. However, he is not a #2 guard. He is a vintage wing player that is much more a slasher than a shooter. He filled in quite well yesterday and he has skills that can translate to the guard position, but I was really making a point. Their guard depth has been shallow and to lose two more makes yesterday's performance even more unlikely.

 

I along with most IU fans will take yesterday's performance in a heartbeat and smile all day long with it. If you feel better calling is just okay, then go right ahead.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Rex Hudler

[gbuk]

Not exactly sure why you are wanting to argue here, but look at it however you want.

 

DJ has been playing very differently of late, rebounding more aggressively and shooting with confidence. Regardless of competition, DJ is getting better and more confident with every game. His success was not directly related to Kentucky's talent, but more about how he is approaching the game.

 

You can act as if it were no surprise that Jordan outplayed his brother, but I think you are alone in that regard. Jordan was asked to do things yesterday that he has not yet had to as a collegian. He has never played that amount of minutes. There was no fall back. To act as if one knows how a player will react in that situation playing against his older brother is ridiculous. Anyone can act smart after the fact. The 3-game suspension only made the possibilities more cloudy.

 

I know very well what Ellis can do. However, he is not a #2 guard. He is a vintage wing player that is much more a slasher than a shooter. He filled in quite well yesterday and he has skills that can translate to the guard position, but I was really making a point. Their guard depth has been shallow and to lose two more makes yesterday's performance even more unlikely.

 

I along with most IU fans will take yesterday's performance in a heartbeat and smile all day long with it. If you feel better calling is just okay, then go right ahead.

 

I'm not arguing, more just giving my opinion on IU. I'll wait to fully judge them until they have their full team, but I don't see a Final Four in their future, but I could be wrong. We just have differing opinions and that's completely understandable.

 

White is a good player, a good college big man, no doubt, I just don't think he's great, that's all. He's obviously in much better shape now than he has been in the past and he's going to have his career year easily as long as he stays out of foul trouble. He's got a solid post game but from what I've seen, he needs to post up more rather than settling for mid-range jumpers, which he's decent at but certainly not something you always want from him. I do like the fact that he's a lot more mobile this year, something that will definitely help him defensively rather than in the past when he was sluggish and had to keep up with quicker forwards. An easy mismatch.

 

I know what you're saying about Jordan, but I'm not sure you understand the type of talent that Joe Crawford possesses. He's been a huge disappoint in every aspect of his career, and has never showed up in a game that truly counts. He can't take over when he wants to, he can't penetrate at will, his shot is about as inconsistent (shooting motion) as I've ever seen, and he cannot finish in the slightest. And this game coming against a team known for its defensive prowess and in a hostile environment there was no way he was going to step up big.

 

It was clear from the beginning of this year that Jordan was already a better version of Joe. Maybe not at this moment, but he's so much smoother, longer, better ball-handler and etc. He's better in almost every aspect of the game than Joe. I understand facing his brother would have been very strange and scary, but it was the same for Joe, considering the pressure on him to maybe live up to some of his potential against his own brother. It was obvious to Kentucky fans that Joe was going to be outdone by his brother, maybe not to you guys, but I'm very impressed by Jordan...he's going to be very good.

 

I understand what you were saying about Ellis, I think I was just comparing Ellis filling in at the 2 to Kentucky's terrible guards.

 

Of course you guys should take that performance. It was a very well played game, but it was nothing special...Kentucky turns the ball over like they're afraid of it. But again, this is just matter of opinion, excuse the long post.

 

[thedoctor]

I'm not arguing, more just giving my opinion on IU. I'll wait to fully judge them until they have their full team, but I don't see a Final Four in their future, but I could be wrong. We just have differing opinions and that's completely understandable.

 

White is a good player, a good college big man, no doubt, I just don't think he's great, that's all. He's obviously in much better shape now than he has been in the past and he's going to have his career year easily as long as he stays out of foul trouble. He's got a solid post game but from what I've seen, he needs to post up more rather than settling for mid-range jumpers, which he's decent at but certainly not something you always want from him. I do like the fact that he's a lot more mobile this year, something that will definitely help him defensively rather than in the past when he was sluggish and had to keep up with quicker forwards. An easy mismatch.

 

I know what you're saying about Jordan, but I'm not sure you understand the type of talent that Joe Crawford possesses. He's been a huge disappoint in every aspect of his career, and has never showed up in a game that truly counts. He can't take over when he wants to, he can't penetrate at will, his shot is about as inconsistent (shooting motion) as I've ever seen, and he cannot finish in the slightest. And this game coming against a team known for its defensive prowess and in a hostile environment there was no way he was going to step up big.

 

It was clear from the beginning of this year that Jordan was already a better version of Joe. Maybe not at this moment, but he's so much smoother, longer, better ball-handler and etc. He's better in almost every aspect of the game than Joe. I understand facing his brother would have been very strange and scary, but it was the same for Joe, considering the pressure on him to maybe live up to some of his potential against his own brother. It was obvious to Kentucky fans that Joe was going to be outdone by his brother, maybe not to you guys, but I'm very impressed by Jordan...he's going to be very good.

 

I understand what you were saying about Ellis, I think I was just comparing Ellis filling in at the 2 to Kentucky's terrible guards.

 

Of course you guys should take that performance. It was a very well played game, but it was nothing special...Kentucky turns the ball over like they're afraid of it. But again, this is just matter of opinion, excuse the long post.

 

i agree with just about all of this. nice post.

 

[RockRaines]

Is the topic of a big ten team in the final four still being thrown around?

[Rex Hudler]

Is the topic of a big ten team in the final four still being thrown around?

 

you have something to add?

[RockRaines]

you have something to add?

No chance.

 

End.

[Felix]

Tubby Smith is my friend on facebook, take THAT.

 

 

And now his facebook is deleted.. oh well.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Felix

[Brian]

Justin's crush on Brian Mullins just got bigger after tonight.

[Sonik22]

Thank God for that win! How ironic!

[gbuk]

Thank God for that win! How ironic!

 

Big win for SIU. Later in the year it might not look as good, but that's a good way to get back on track.

 

[Rowand44]

Justin's crush on Brian Mullins just got bigger after tonight.

You guys should have seen some of the crap he was doing tonight. Mills is going to need a new set of ankles.

 

Huge win, gotta keep this thing going now. Need to see some consistency out of this bunch but tonight they looked fantastic.

[whitesoxfan101]

DePaul pulls an Illinois and blows a huge lead to a team ranked in the 20's and loses in overtime. Vandy improves to 10-0 despite not really showing up for most of the night.

 

And Maryland lost at home, to OHIO. That is the worst OOC loss I've seen for Illinois in years (at least since Bail was coach), the game to the Terps.

Edited December 13, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Palehosefan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3152461

 

Self sure is teaching Rush a tough life lesson. I'm shocked the date is 5 days after the national championship. I'm not sure what's funnier, Self pushing the date to after the season, or Self thinking he will be in the national title :-P.

[whitesoxfan101]

At least Self doesn't have a convicted felon on his team who left a teammate for dead taking a redshirt year as "punishment".

[Brian]

At least Self doesn't have a convicted felon on his team who left a teammate for dead taking a redshirt year as "punishment".

 

Oh no, he didn't!

 

/ghetto style

 

Oh wait, that was kinda lame and out of the blue.

[whitesoxfan101]

Of course it was lame. But the fact I had to defend Bill Self tells you all you need to know about Bruce Weber. He's a fraud at levels I can't begin to explain. At least Self doesn't stand on a false premise of personal morality like Bruce tries to.

Edited December 14, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[gbuk]

Of course it was lame. But the fact I had to defend Bill Self tells you all you need to know about Bruce Weber. He's a fraud at levels I can't begin to explain. At least Self doesn't stand on a false premise of personal morality like Bruce tries to.

 

Please tell us what kind of "fraud" Weber is then. Go on.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Please tell us what kind of "fraud" Weber is then. Go on.

 

If you aren't aware of the entire Jamar Smith/Brian Carlwell saga, the myth that Weber is a great in game coach, the bizarre showing up of World Wide Wes at the UC recently on the coaching staff's tab, the general ignorance he showed toward the incredible amount of problems off the court within the program the last few years, and his seeming inability to blame anybody but his young players.........that's your problem.