Official 2007-08 College Basketball Thread

[watchtower41]

Our mascot is a bird, our nickname is a tornado, and our logo is a letter.

 

 

??

 

whatever floats your boat. I liked the bird logo better, esp this one.

 

[greasywheels121]

Heads is CrossCyed...

[gbuk]

Eh, Tennessee hugely beat themselves. Can't wait till KY comes to Thompson-Boling. Let's see how well Gillispie can coach then... Anyway, hope Kentucky has fun battling the rest of the year for a NIT bid.

 

Oh you poor, bitter Tennessee fan not willing to give credit where credit's due?

 

Sweet low blow on the NIT bid...don't really care, it was pretty obvious all this year that's how it was going to be.

 

[gbuk]

Yeah, he's been doing amazingly with Kentucky so far this year. I mean, look at really, it's not like they lost at home to San Diego or anything ridiculous like that.

 

Well hey at least someone has been following what's actually been going on with Kentucky here!

 

[gbuk]

He's no Tubby! Gardner Webb?

 

There's a reason Tubby got forced out at Kentucky. Need a reminder?

[Soxbadger]

Well its just shocking to say Gillispie is an insanely good coach when:

 

1. Kentucky had a preseason ranking of 20 in AP and 22 in ESPN.

 

2. Kentucky has a 16 season NCAA tourney streak.

 

3. Since 2001 here are Kentuckys final win/loss:

 

2001-2: 20-10

2002-3: 32-4

2003-4: 27-5

2004-5: 28-6

2005-6: 22-13

2006-7: 22-12

 

Current Record: 8-9

 

Barring a finish of 12-4 or better Kentucky will finish with its worst record in 6+ years.

 

Tubby Smith on the other hand has Minnesota at: 12-5

 

2001-2: 18-12

2002-3: 19-14

2003-4: 12-18

2004-5: 21-11

2005-6: 16-15

2006-7: 9-22

 

As you can see, Tubby already has more wins this year for Minnesota than they did all of last year. If he can win even 7 more games this season it will be Minnesota's second best in the last 6+ years. If he can win 9 games it will tie for Minnesota's best season.

 

Its hard for me to consider Gillespie as doing an "insanely good" job when he took a team that has been a NCAA lock and has made them a bubble team. And the coach he replaced has taken a team that was a cupcake, not even going to make the NIT, to a bubble NCAA team.

 

Gillespie may be a good coach, but hes done really nothing this year to prove that. If anything he has shown to be over rated.

 

There's a reason Tubby got forced out at Kentucky. Need a reminder?

 

Can I take race for 1000 Alex?

Edited January 24, 2008 by Soxbadger

[farmteam]

Here you go, Heads:

 

GO CLONES!

 

Man, I despise Kansas.

[gbuk]

Well its just shocking to say Gillispie is an insanely good coach when:

 

1. Kentucky had a preseason ranking of 20 in AP and 22 in ESPN.

 

2. Kentucky has a 16 season NCAA tourney streak.

 

3. Since 2001 here are Kentuckys final win/loss:

 

2001-2: 20-10

2002-3: 32-4

2003-4: 27-5

2004-5: 28-6

2005-6: 22-13

2006-7: 22-12

 

Current Record: 8-9

 

Barring a finish of 12-4 or better Kentucky will finish with its worst record in 6+ years.

 

Tubby Smith on the other hand has Minnesota at: 12-5

 

2001-2: 18-12

2002-3: 19-14

2003-4: 12-18

2004-5: 21-11

2005-6: 16-15

2006-7: 9-22

 

As you can see, Tubby already has more wins this year for Minnesota than they did all of last year. If he can win even 7 more games this season it will be Minnesota's second best in the last 6+ years. If he can win 9 games it will tie for Minnesota's best season.

 

Its hard for me to consider Gillespie as doing an "insanely good" job when he took a team that has been a NCAA lock and has made them a bubble team. And the coach he replaced has taken a team that was a cupcake, not even going to make the NIT, to a bubble NCAA team.

 

Gillespie may be a good coach, but hes done really nothing this year to prove that. If anything he has shown to be over rated.

 

 

Can I take race for 1000 Alex?

 

First of all, preseason rankings mean absolutely nothing, and I'm truly sorry if you put faith in those.

 

Judging from this post I'll just go ahead and assume you haven't seen us progress from the beginning. We have improved probably 500% since the second half of the Louisville game...pretty much over night. Since not many people want to point it out, we were without two of our best players, who's minutes for the first half of the season were taken by guys who probably shouldn't have gotten a scholarship at Kentucky in the first place.

 

You're telling me Tubby is a very good coach. I agree with you. No one said otherwise, yet somehow you're trying to argue my statement that Gillispie is a great coach by telling me what I already know about Tubby. Anyone who pretended he would be very successful (in relative terms) at Minnesota probably hasn't paid too much attention. Tubby thrives with players who, similar to WSU this year, combine to make a team whose "sum is better than their parts". Teams like this are always competitive and will always give you their best shot...and always successful.

 

However, Kentucky isn't happy with just being a successful, middle of the pack team and happy with second round exits 3/4 years. Kentucky and Minnesota are clearly on totally different levels, and for Tubby, Minnesota is absolutely perfect for him.

 

Anyone who told you that we were going to be a legit team this year also wasn't paying too much attention. In the last few years Tubby's teams have become apathetic and seemed to lack a will to win and even true effort at all times. Tubby became complacent in recruiting, in his offense, and what was always Tubby's trademark, their defense was horrible.

 

Gillispie comes in, and the first thing he promises to do is recruit, something which was not done very well...as we had a lazy coach for the most part, who liked to go all out for one recruit; and when he missed he almost never had a backup plan, leaving us with players like Josh Carrier, Brandon Stockton, Mike Williams, and on and on. Players who shouldn't be at this level.

 

To put it simple, we have a really dumb team. Their basketball IQ is collectively worse than I've seen it in my lifetime, so adjusting from Tubby's ball line defense and total laziness in the past few years to Gillispie's in your face CONSTANT man-to-man was something these players just could not understand for a long, long time. To add to it, they weren't giving the effort Gillispie wanted, and that's something a lot of players struggled with, mainly Joe Crawford who didn't truly earn his starting spot until the Vanderbilt game. Offensively? Well, we didn't run an offense the last two years...unless you count standing around for 25 seconds, realizing the mistake, and then penetrating with guys who absolutely do not understand how to do that...then yeah, we did.

 

Gillispie runs an offense focused on a lot of ball movement, and a hi-lo game, much like Bill Self (for obvious reasons), and given the fact that there are probably 3 legit passers and no real point guard, this was by far the hardest adjustment for them. Again, they're not smart, and everything was very forced and predictable for a long while until something clicked in the last few weeks.

 

Basically this team lacks a tremendous amount of talent (thanks to the previous regime), and for a long while was way, way too lazy to become what Gillispie wanted them to become. They have fully bought in...every one of them, and if you haven't seen that, you're obviously not watching the games.

 

 

 

Tubby's gone because of his race? Please tell me this is a joke...please lord tell me you are not serious. If so, you must have something seriously wrong up there.

 

And dude, if your argument is going to be legit, SPELL GILLISPIE'S NAME RIGHT. NOT GILLESPIE. GILLISPIE.

[Soxbadger]

Sorry I misspelled it 1 time. I spelled it right to begin with but did not think that his spelling was relevant to the discussion. But it is noted, should you ever spell a name wrong 1 time, I will be all over you and remind you that the only way an argument is going to be legit is if you spell every word right.

 

Its a clever argument, all of the blame is placed on Tubby, but the question is does it make sense:

 

In the last few years Tubby's teams have become apathetic and seemed to lack a will to win and even true effort at all times. Tubby became complacent in recruiting, in his offense, and what was always Tubby's trademark, their defense was horrible.

 

Gillispie comes in, and the first thing he promises to do is recruit, something which was not done very well...as we had a lazy coach for the most part, who liked to go all out for one recruit; and when he missed he almost never had a backup plan, leaving us with players like Josh Carrier, Brandon Stockton, Mike Williams, and on and on. Players who shouldn't be at this level.

 

Basically this team lacks a tremendous amount of talent (thanks to the previous regime), and for a long while was way, way too lazy to become what Gillispie wanted them to become. They have fully bought in...every one of them, and if you haven't seen that, you're obviously not watching the games.

 

So let me get this straight.

 

Tubbys players were:

 

Lazy, unathletic, and should not be playing at the NCAA level.

 

Yet Tubby with all these terrible playes won 20+ games.

 

Now Self comes in, these lazy terrible players all of a sudden regress to .500?

 

Something has to give, its a simple equation same players + different coach= drastic decline in record.

 

And why are Minnesota's untalented players buying into Tubby?

 

Minnesota has less talent than Kentucky, but has more wins. Its team only won 9 games last year, he already has eclipsed that.

 

You can make all the excuses that you want that players are lazy, cant understand the system, etc... But the facts are they lost their last 2 road games to unranked teams, and this upset occurred in their own arena. (which just shows how sad the state of Kentucky basketball is when its an upset to win at your own court which you should never lose at)

 

And whats odd is that you complain about the lack of talent/recruiting but since 2004:

 

2004: 3 five star, 1 four star

2005: 2 four star

2006: 3 four star

 

To me thats not to bad of talent. Maybe its not at the top tier like UNC, KU, but its still enough talent to make the NCAA tournament, and thats where Billy's (im not going to use his last name cause i dont want to spell it wrong so sorry for any disrespect billy) problem lies. He does have the players, he just is not getting as much as Tubby was out of them. You can say he was lazy, etc, but he clearly got more out of his players.

 

You said that he was an "insanely good" coach.

 

I just dont consider it a great job when a coach takes over a team that should never miss an NCAA tournament and makes them a bubble team.

 

/shrugs

 

You can complain about my grammar and sentence structure as well if it will keep you warm at night.

[chimpy2121]

Good win tonight against UVA. To my surprise we pulled it out despite being down 10 with about eight minutes to go; usually a Coach Ham team just quits.

[Rowand44]

Lost on another buzzer beater on a phantom foul. Unreal, this team can't catch a break.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Rowand44

[Palehosefan]

Tech beats Mizzou 92-84. Tech shot 50 FT's tonight, never seen that before. This is the game after Kansas shot 45 FT's againts Mizzou.

[gbuk]

Sorry I misspelled it 1 time. I spelled it right to begin with but did not think that his spelling was relevant to the discussion. But it is noted, should you ever spell a name wrong 1 time, I will be all over you and remind you that the only way an argument is going to be legit is if you spell every word right.

 

Its a clever argument, all of the blame is placed on Tubby, but the question is does it make sense:

So let me get this straight.

 

Tubbys players were:

 

Lazy, unathletic, and should not be playing at the NCAA level.

 

Yet Tubby with all these terrible playes won 20+ games.

 

Now Self comes in, these lazy terrible players all of a sudden regress to .500?

 

Something has to give, its a simple equation same players + different coach= drastic decline in record.

 

And why are Minnesota's untalented players buying into Tubby?

 

Minnesota has less talent than Kentucky, but has more wins. Its team only won 9 games last year, he already has eclipsed that.

 

You can make all the excuses that you want that players are lazy, cant understand the system, etc... But the facts are they lost their last 2 road games to unranked teams, and this upset occurred in their own arena. (which just shows how sad the state of Kentucky basketball is when its an upset to win at your own court which you should never lose at)

 

And whats odd is that you complain about the lack of talent/recruiting but since 2004:

 

2004: 3 five star, 1 four star

2005: 2 four star

2006: 3 four star

 

To me thats not to bad of talent. Maybe its not at the top tier like UNC, KU, but its still enough talent to make the NCAA tournament, and thats where Billy's (im not going to use his last name cause i dont want to spell it wrong so sorry for any disrespect billy) problem lies. He does have the players, he just is not getting as much as Tubby was out of them. You can say he was lazy, etc, but he clearly got more out of his players.

 

You said that he was an "insanely good" coach.

 

I just dont consider it a great job when a coach takes over a team that should never miss an NCAA tournament and makes them a bubble team.

 

/shrugs

 

You can complain about my grammar and sentence structure as well if it will keep you warm at night.

 

Wow, you seriously missed every single point of my argument. I'm not even kidding. I'm not even going to bother responding to this. Wow.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Thanks for the glorified practice Heads...KU killed ISU.

 

Darnell Jackson is one of the best 10 players in the nation.

[Soxbadger]

No the point of your argument was clear:

 

The team wasnt talented and was lazy. Billy brought in a new style and they were unable to adapt to it very quickly because the players were untalented and lazy. The fact that these players are even able to win any games is a testament to how great Billy is, as Tubby left him with nothing, absolutely nothing.

 

Tubby was a bad recruiter and lazy. His teams were lazy. He is a lazy coach.

 

Apathetic, not giving enough effort, laziness, you might as well just say "lazy" over and over again.

 

You clearly are a big UK fan and actually care about the team, I as an outsider who frankly could care less about UK just does not agree with your assessment that Billy has been an "insanely good" coach.

 

I guess my standards of "insanely good" are a little higher than yours.

 

Which is odd because half way in your post you say how Kentucky has such high standards...

 

He might be doing a decent job, maybe even good, but "insanely good", thats where I think it becomes strained.

[gbuk]

No the point of your argument was clear:

 

The team wasnt talented and was lazy. Billy brought in a new style and they were unable to adapt to it very quickly because the players were untalented and lazy. The fact that these players are even able to win any games is a testament to how great Billy is, as Tubby left him with nothing, absolutely nothing.

 

Tubby was a bad recruiter and lazy. His teams were lazy. He is a lazy coach.

 

Apathetic, not giving enough effort, laziness, you might as well just say "lazy" over and over again.

 

You clearly are a big UK fan and actually care about the team, I as an outsider who frankly could care less about UK just does not agree with your assessment that Billy has been an "insanely good" coach.

 

I guess my standards of "insanely good" are a little higher than yours.

 

Which is odd because half way in your post you say how Kentucky has such high standards...

 

He might be doing a decent job, maybe even good, but "insanely good", thats where I think it becomes strained.

 

We lost our entire front court, started a walk on for most of the year, do not have a true point guard, and have quite possibly the lowest basketball IQ on our team in my lifetime. These players were lazy, there's no question about it...now as a random observer you should have no reason to know that, but they were.

 

The problem with Tubby's era is the fact that he beat the teams they were supposed to beat and lost to the teams they were supposed to lose to. It was incredibly predictable...in fact, before the Vanderbilt win they hadn't beaten a ranked team since February '06.

 

Gillispie was going to get his system at whatever cost. He's way too arrogrant to give a s*** what the fans want, and that's absolutely how it has to be. Sometimes you have to completely tear something down to rebuild it and that's exactly what he's doing. We're just a few points away from being 4-0 in the SEC...after getting blown out by Gardner Webb, San Diego, and etc. We lost to them, whatever...that sucked, but improvement was all that was needed this year because everyone expected it to be this way with the personnel we lost and the incredible amount of injuries we've had.

 

Tubby was apathetic his last two years. No doubt. That's why he needed to leave and go where he's totally accepted and where he can really shine. Minnesota is the perfect place for him. You're totally misunderstand what I'm saying about him as a coach.

 

Also, you're last sentence you say "good job", I'm saying he's an insanely great "coach". He is a great coach, I have no doubt about that. The type of job he's doing this year is totally objective depending on your standards.

Edited January 24, 2008 by gbuk

[Soxbadger]

Well he will have his chance to prove that his greatness.

 

I hope he does well, hes just gotten off to a rough start.

 

 

[Heads22]

Thanks for the glorified practice Heads...KU killed ISU.

 

Darnell Jackson is one of the best 10 players in the nation.

 

We owned the first minute.

 

aTm and Baylor tied at 99, end of the fourth overtime.

[gbuk]

Well he will have his chance to prove that his greatness.

 

I hope he does well, hes just gotten off to a rough start.

 

I truly think your last sentence really is where our disconnect is here.

 

From an outsider's standpoint he's doing a bad job and they should be much better. If he had just fit his system to his players and halted the development of his system for just this year, we would have been better. However, Kentucky fans (at least the rational ones, who sadly are few and far between) want a long term fix, something that will ensure us a better chance of getting back to the Final Four, where we haven't been in 10 years, going on 11 (the longest drought in Kentucky history).

 

The improvement in this team's effort mainly, leading to its play, has truly been unbelievable so far this year. The way he's gotten these guys to come together and give 100% effort ALL the time and play some of the best defense (last night) we've played in years is incredible.

 

He's a great, great coach. No doubt.

[Palehosefan]

Texas A&M loses 3rd in a row in 5 OT's to Baylor. A&M goes at Okl State. and then welcomes Texas, they could be 1-5 in conference to start.

 

Baylor looks to be the second best team in the Big 12 so far this year.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Texas A&M loses 3rd in a row in 5 OT's to Baylor. A&M goes at Okl State. and then welcomes Texas, they could be 1-5 in conference to start.

 

Baylor looks to be the second best team in the Big 12 so far this year.

 

Id go Kstate second best.

[whitesoxfan101]

Kansas is so far and away the best team in the nation right now......I don't even think Self can do his traditional die in the elite 8 thing with this group. And I think hell is going to freeze over when Drake and Baylor, both in the top 25, make the dance in the same year.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Kansas is so far and away the best team in the nation right now......I don't even think Self can do his traditional die in the elite 8 thing with this group. And I think hell is going to freeze over when Drake and Baylor, both in the top 25, make the dance in the same year.

 

 

Best Kansas team by far since 96-97. Still don't trust Self in a tourney situation yet!!!

[danman31]

I think Baylor is a tournament team.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

 

 

baylor is already in....guarenteed tourney team.