Official 2007-08 College Basketball Thread

[sircaffey]

What about Mark Few??

 

He said no to IU 3 years ago.

[Soxbadger]

I think the only chance Indiana has here to avoid real sanctions if if Sampson performs seppuku (harakiri) on himself. Right now Sampson is digging a bigger hole, he is saying the allegations are untrue and I really cant recall any program fighting the NCAA and coming out successful. So the best thing for Indiana is to fire him, but that still wont be enough. The NCAA is going to want to punish some one, and at the end of the day if Sampson is gone, they are going to punish the institution that benefited from his cheating, which unfortunately is Indiana.

 

So Sampson has to come out and fall on his sword, take the entire rap. It was all him, Indiana knew nothing, they told him not to cheat and he blatantly violated their orders. They were watching him, and he was creating deceptive plots to get around them.

 

If Indiana stands next to Sampson they will go down with the ship.

[sircaffey]

given that he's a big name and grew up as an indiana fan i do think his name will come up and maybe iu makes a call. that said, i don't think there's a snowballs chance he goes.

 

Matta said no to IU 3 year ago as well.

[Kyyle23]

Would all of these coaches who snubbed IU 3 years ago snub them again, given the talent currently on the team, and the talent coming in(despite the talent leaving)?

 

3 years ago, IU was struggling, no?

[sircaffey]

I think if the allegations are true, they're looking at a loss of few scholarships (maybe one or two for a couple of years) and a minimum of one year post-season ban.

 

Espn has a good article about how lying to investigators is one of the bigger no-no's. Now the writer of the piece fails to accurately compare the violations - he's talking about Baylor (telling kids to lie about a murder), Minnesota (writing papers/taking tests) and Ohio State (the most ridiculous one imo, giving a kid 6k to go home to the other side of the world) - but it still shows how the NCAA comes down strong on programs that lie to it. Except for Ohio State, the schools he talked about got major penalties - often multi-year loss of scholarships and post-season bans AFTER the school had already given self-imposed penalties.

 

I also wonder how the NCAA would view Indiana keeping Sampson around this year, even if they just suspend him. You'd think allowing a cheater to continue just because he has a good team and some good players (a "one year window") would make them react stronger against it.

 

And does anyone know if this current team will be affected? Lets assume they make the final four or the championship, is that something that can later be taken away by the NCAA because of Sampsons actions?

 

I find it very hard to believe there will be any post season ban. Very hard to believe that. IU is not in the wrong here. Sampson is in the wrong. IU launched their own investigation and notified the NCAA what they found. Then the NCAA found that Sampson lied to Indiana University. Indiana University wasn't attempting to cover anything up. In fact they imposed their own penalties before the NCAA even had time to look at the case. If anything, I could see a couple more scholarships lost and probation, but Indiana University certainly is not a main culprit in this case especially if they fire Sampson pronto.

[daa84]

IU should go after kevin stallings...hes been to the sweet 16 twice in the last 4 years, and has a shot at going again this year, and he beat florida last year...not to mention we had georgetown beat, until jeff green traveled and hit a game winner that should have sent us to the elite 8 last year

[Rex Hudler]

I think firing Sampson and imposing sanctions would definitely reduce the penalty. The problem still would remain that IU hired a known cheater and he continued to cheat under their watch. It doesn't exactly set a great example for other programs if simply firing the guy once he gets caught and imposing a one scholarship reduction is sufficient to not receive further penalties. Because really, 1 scholarship is not significant since teams often don't have 13 guys on scholarship and only 9 or 10 guys typically play.

 

I agree and that's why I thinK IU would have to add to their self-imposed penalties. Whatever that is, I don't know. Part of the response IU has to priovide the NCAA is their compliance information. Documentation of meetings, what was taught, etc. If they determine the school was doing their part, couple that with the fact that IU found the violations in their internal checks and balances with the fact Sampson supposedly lied to both the school and the NCAA, then I would think a lack of institutional control would not be an issue. But who knows? I'm trying to be as objective as I can, but that's difficult to do.

 

The bottom line is once IU has done their due diligence with the report, unless they just find it to be completely false (which I don't see happening), then they will have to fire Sampson. I don't see them delaying until after the season here. But I also don't see them flying off the handle and doing something yesterday.

[Jenksismyhero]

A school doesn't get hit with FIVE MAJOR violations and get off on the excuse that it was all the coach. I know what you're saying, and I agree Indiana probably shouldn't be held responsible for the acts of a cheater, but they hired a cheater and they gave him the means to cheat. They have to be involved. And loss of scholarhips, to me, won't do it.

 

What Indiana decides to do from here (fire Sampson, declare themselves ineligible, etc) will have a major impact on what the NCAA should do.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Jenksismybitch

[CanOfCorn]

Anyone think Keno Davis might be in the picture, considering what he has done with Drake this year? He may wait for Iowa, though.

 

And I think you have to do two things with the IU situation. One, punish IU for hiring Sampson knowing that he left Oklahoma for the same sanctions...what's the old saying...fool me once, shame on you, fool me...I won't get fooled again!

 

Two, the NCAA should give Sampson the Bozeman treatment and keep him from coaching in the NCAA for a specific amount of time. Three years maybe?

[Heads22]

Anyone think Keno Davis might be in the picture, considering what he has done with Drake this year? He may wait for Iowa, though.

 

And I think you have to do two things with the IU situation. One, punish IU for hiring Sampson knowing that he left Oklahoma for the same sanctions...what's the old saying...fool me once, shame on you, fool me...I won't get fooled again!

 

Two, the NCAA should give Sampson the Bozeman treatment and keep him from coaching in the NCAA for a specific amount of time. Three years maybe?

 

Lickliter's job is not in jeopardy. He's got much more support here than Alford ever did.

 

Don't get sold too quickly on Keno, either.

[Rowand44]

SIU 2.3 secs away from knocking of Drake at the Arena. Of course Matt Shaw can't make a free throw to extend it to 4. SIU up 3. Justin should storm the floor if we win. Ha

Shaw is such a vagina. But ya, expected that win. Nothing to get excited about though, we MIGHT win @ WSU on Saturday cause they're so awful but I still highly doubt it.

[CanOfCorn]

Lickliter's job is not in jeopardy. He's got much more support here than Alford ever did.

 

Don't get sold too quickly on Keno, either.

 

I don't think Tony Bennett would leave either. Scott Drew might, but living here in Texas, I can tell you that the Baylor community absolutely loves him for what he has done for that program. He has given them hope. Now, Drew may want to be back in Indiana, but Baylor might make it worth his while to stay.

[knightni]

Well i'm glad ESPN felt the St. Johns-Cincy game was a better choice than UCONN-ND last night but whatever. Glad that UCONN won.

 

BOOOOOOOO!

[Palehosefan]

Scott Drew should definitely be one of Indiana's main targets for the job. He has done an amazing job at Baylor, and has as much talent as anyone but Kansas in the Big 12 now.

[Rex Hudler]

Please excuse the long dissertation that is this post, but I wanted to offer up some thoughts.... Please read the entire post if you want to comment on it. I think you need to read it all to understand the entirety of my point.

 

I have read the entire 14 page NCAA response.

 

I'll start off by sying that the allegations/violations by and large are bulls***, penny ante stuff, not high level cheating that should warrant this much attention. Again, bear with me before you react to that statement.

 

Here is a good synopsis of things that happened, in no particular order.

 

1. Much of the this was not NCAA violations, but violations of the sanctions placed on Sampson after the Oklahoma case.

 

2. The NCAA allows for one call per month to be placed to recruits from June 15 of their sophomore year to August 1 of their senior year. Sampson's restriction limited contact to once every other month. Impermissible calls were made by assistants here.

 

3. The NCAA allows for two calls per week to be placed to recruits after August 1 of their senior year. Sampson's restriction limited contact to one per week. Impermissible calls were made by assistants here.

 

4. IU assistants placed two calls to Yancey Gates (Cincinnati) before June 15 of his sophomore year.

5. IU assistant Rob Senderoff made 1 impermissible call to Evan Turner on May 11 after already calling based on the above limitations.

6. Senderoff made 3 calls in May 2006 to Demetri McCamey over the above limitations.

7. Senderoff made 1 impermissible call to Markeif Morris (who is this?) on June 29, 2006.

8. Senderoff made 2 impermissible calls to DeJuan Blair during the month of July 2006.

9. From March 1 thru July 17, 2007 Senderoff made 22 impermissible calls to Bud Mackey, an IU commit at the time. I am not sure exactly when his legal problems arose, but I wonder if many of them may have been connected to that?

10. From March 26 thru April 15 2007 Senderoff made 3 impermissible calls to Philip Jurick.

11. Assistant Jeff Meyer made 1 impermissible to Scott Martin on July 18, 2006 after he had already made 1 permissible call that month.

12. Meyer made 6 impermissible calls to Robbie Hummel between June 29 and July 10, 2006.

 

3-way callls

12. The NCAA found that Sampson knowingly participated in several (it did not say a #) 3-way calls between May 31 2006 and May 1 2007. IU's report estimated it to be about a dozen over the course of a year. Again these were violations of the sanctions and not a violation of NCAA rules.

 

The work around the rules calls - The sanctions on Sampson did not allow him to be present when another assistant was calling a recruit or visiting with a recruit. This limitation I was not familiar with.

13. Sampson participated in speaker phone calls to Marcus Morris, placed by Senderoff.

14. Senderoff called Sampson from his cell phone while in the present of several recruits and allowed Sampson to talk to the recruits.

15. Sampson spoke with Bud Mackey's mother while Senderoff was in her presence on Senderoff's cell. It did not say who initiated the call.

 

16. The NCAA alleges that Sampson and Senderoff provided false or misleading information regarding the above calls and the three way calls.

17. The allegations state their finding that Sampson failed to promote compliance in regards to recruiting restrictions placed on him, failed to promote compliance concerning telephone recruiting calls and failed to monitor the documentation of recruiting calls by his staff to ensure compliance.

18. Senderoff provided signed statements to the university that he had not placed recruiting calls from his home telephone. Of those calls 30 were against the recruiting restrictions from the sanctions and 15 were against NCAA regulations (see limitations in #2 and #3)

19. On June 30 Sampson and Meyer met with 2009 recruit Derek Elston during a two-day basketball camp held at IU. (not sure why this is impermissible)

20. Meyer gave a t-shirt and a backpack to Elston's coach the next day. The NCAA alleges Meyer told him to give it to Elston when they got home, which he did.

 

So basically we are looking at 100 or so phone calls and a free t-shirt. This in itself is not big stuff. It is not what big-time cheaters do. If isolated, I would be disappointed bu by no means up in arms about this. Over a year's time it just doesn't reflect on what my mind thinks a guy intentionally cheating would do. I think the calls would be more frequent and there would be other issues. The sad part is that text messages were not illegal and not against his restrictions. He could have used text messages and the above would have been cut tenfold and there would be very little left to be dealing with.

 

This is so stupid that IU is having to deal with penny-ante stuff. This would be scoffed at as amateurish by SEC football progams.

 

All that said, the problem is not the actual violations. It is the fact that Sampson had already been busted for similar violations and was operating under santions at the time. The problem is that apparently he has either lied or misled to cover his ass. How stupid can a guy be???? He HAD to know he would be under a miscroscope based on the previous case. He had already been down this road before, he HAD to know that not being 100% truthful would fry his ass. I just don't get how someone can be so careless, callous or irreverent to their own situation to land here.

 

I want to be clear that my problem is with Sampson and his stupidity. Something just doesn't make sense. I guess I should be happy we aren't dealing with cash payments and major issues. None of these violations would be considered major if they were not repeats. It just totally sucks that Sampson couldn't be smart enough to keep his nose clean and play within the rules (mistakes can happen - no one is perfect). It's just obvious that he either didn't care or was too stupid to do things right. I hope IU decides to handle this pretty quickly and not let it drag out. He needs to go, no ifs ands or buts.

 

 

 

 

 

[Felix]

According to another board I frequent, ESPN1000 has reported Sampson is out as head coach. Not sure of the validity, but still.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Felix

[Jenksismyhero]

Espn.com says its day-to-day. I'm sure they are talking to their lawyers to make sure they act appropriately and don't waste millions in fines and legal fees. What I don't get is that they're talking about buy-outs and wrongful termination stuff. Doesn't his contract have a clause in it that gives Indiana the right to fire him for something like this? I don't get what they need to talk about, unless they amended his contract after the first time he got caught.

 

And Rex - I hear ya. If you look at this story out of context you'd laugh and chalk this up to a slow news day. But the fact that he didn't get caught once, or twice, it's now three times he's done something bad (the 3d being the lying/covering up). This from a guy who was the president of the ethics board. The first time i'll give you the benefit of the doubt - call the improper calls a mistake (which I doubt 500+ calls over the limit is a mistake, but whatever). But the fact he did it again and then lied about doing it again is pretty clear evidence his actions were willful. He knew he was cheating but decided to risk it anyway. I just don't see how the NCAA could accept that and give a minimum penalty, especially when the report says "major" all over the place.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Looks like it is official.

[whitesoxfan99]

Looks like it is official.

Link?

[Buehrle>Wood]

Link?

 

Notta yet. There is something about a press conference at 7, according to the IU message board.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Buehrle>Wood

[RockRaines]

given that he's a big name and grew up as an indiana fan i do think his name will come up and maybe iu makes a call. that said, i don't think there's a snowballs chance he goes.

I believe he grew up as an OSU fan, as I believe he was originally from Columbus, IL, but I could be wrong. But you are right, now way in hell, IU had some glory days awhile ago, but OSU has been top tier since he started there and he has brought in top tier talent, and they have the largest budget in the country.

 

 

I still dont think IU is that desirable of a position anymore. I certainly dont think they are a top 5 coaching slot. Couple that with the sanctions that may come down and its going to be hard to find an established coach to take that position. Its going to have to be a no-name or something with alot to prove.

[sircaffey]

Espn.com says its day-to-day. I'm sure they are talking to their lawyers to make sure they act appropriately and don't waste millions in fines and legal fees. What I don't get is that they're talking about buy-outs and wrongful termination stuff. Doesn't his contract have a clause in it that gives Indiana the right to fire him for something like this? I don't get what they need to talk about, unless they amended his contract after the first time he got caught.

 

And Rex - I hear ya. If you look at this story out of context you'd laugh and chalk this up to a slow news day. But the fact that he didn't get caught once, or twice, it's now three times he's done something bad (the 3d being the lying/covering up). This from a guy who was the president of the ethics board. The first time i'll give you the benefit of the doubt - call the improper calls a mistake (which I doubt 500+ calls over the limit is a mistake, but whatever). But the fact he did it again and then lied about doing it again is pretty clear evidence his actions were willful. He knew he was cheating but decided to risk it anyway. I just don't see how the NCAA could accept that and give a minimum penalty, especially when the report says "major" all over the place.

 

The point here is that Indiana University did not do anything wrong. They took the initiative to investigate. They didn't try to ignore what Sampson was doing. They didn't try to cover it up. THEY found that Sampson broke the rules for the 2nd time and cried foul. Considering the NCAA concluded that Sampson lied to IU, they know that IU had no knowledge of what Sampson was doing. I don't know how they could find IU to be so much in the wrong that they are going throw the book at them especially when IU took serious action. Loss of scholarships and probation. I can't imagine anything more. If Sampson is indeed fired soon like rumored, Indiana handled this situation very well. Both initiating the investigation and ending it.

[Rex Hudler]

IU to quickly investigate/review new allegations and decide on Sampsons fate.

 

From the Indianapolis Star:

 

Indiana University President Michael McRobbie will announce Friday athletic director Rick Greenspan will review a new IU investigation into NCAA allegations against basketball coach Kelvin Sampson and offer a recommendation within a matter of days, a person close to the situation said this evening.

 

McRobbie will outline his plan at a news conference Friday afternoon in Bloomington that will attempt to accelerate the adjudication process involving IU’s embattled second-year coach, according to the person.

 

In the meantime, Sampson will continue to coach the Hoosiers, who play host to Michigan State Saturday night at Assembly Hall.

 

If Greenspan recommends that Sampson should be fired, Sampson's contract calls for a 10-day appeal process by which he could challenge the termination. At that point, IU would suspend him of his coaching duties.

 

At Friday's news conference, McRobbie will explain the investigation procedure and name those who will conduct the investigation. The investigation will involve only the new allegations that surfaced in the NCAA’s report which was released Wednesday that determined that Sampson knowingly violated telephone recruiting restrictions and then lied about it to members of both the university and NCAA investigative staffs.

[chimpy2121]

Ryan Reid=Dumb ass.

[JDsDirtySox]

The point here is that Indiana University did not do anything wrong. They took the initiative to investigate. They didn't try to ignore what Sampson was doing. They didn't try to cover it up. THEY found that Sampson broke the rules for the 2nd time and cried foul. Considering the NCAA concluded that Sampson lied to IU, they know that IU had no knowledge of what Sampson was doing. I don't know how they could find IU to be so much in the wrong that they are going throw the book at them especially when IU took serious action. Loss of scholarships and probation. I can't imagine anything more. If Sampson is indeed fired soon like rumored, Indiana handled this situation very well. Both initiating the investigation and ending it.

 

Unfortunately they made the first wrong move the day they hired Sampson.

His Cheating ways at OU seemed to be treated as "no big deal" when he left them behind to go to Indiana.

Now IU will have to pay the price.

Of Course the Coach, and some of his coaching staff is the problem... but

The President, Athletic Director, and Board of Trustees have to be held accountable here.