Challenges Facing the Next President

[southsideirish71]

The MESS as a whole is the fault of both sides. The companies hooked people into loans they think they can afford then jack up the prices later on. These companies KNEW the prices would go up, and I am more than sure they KNEW they would foreclose on some of them. I call it bulk lending. Make up for the potential foreclosures by giving out more loans to compensate.

It is also the fault of the consumer. two and a half years ago I almost bought a town home. It would have been tight on the budget, but we could afford it. The other option to save money would have been to do a interest only or ARM. Well, i thought those sounded a little too risky. I understood these companies are out to make money, not help me get my dream. i decided against it. It's a good thing. My rate would have gone up and my home would be worthless. I have been a happy renter since August 2005.

 

Corporate Greed + Consumer Ignorance = DISASTER

 

Corporations are greedy, that shouldnt be a shock to everyone. The mess the mortgage industry got themselves into is their fault as well. But as far as the innocent victims of corporate greed. I am just sick of the sad sob stories of the people crying on TV playing victim because their ARM matured. They are not victims, they are willing participants in this mess. My favorites are the ones who said, well all of a sudden my payment went up and when I called the bank they told me that I had an ARM. I dont remember that. How can anyone be this dumb, really. Banks dont want foreclosures. If these so called responsible adults took some time to contact the bank and negotiate terms and maybe a new mortgage and show good faith they might save their home. But f*** that, just scream and cry and hope that the government bails you out. They miss 6 or so payments in a row meanwhile pissing and crying about being a victim then they put themselves in a place where they cant get help. But the same dolts who are crying on TV, are the same ones who dont pay their bills for 4 months in a row and then cry when its dark in the house. Pay your bills, and pay them on time. When I bought my house I had one thief of a lender try and talk me into buying a house 3 times the price of the one I bought. . Well you can afford it. I resisted the trap. I bought a good sized house in Downers Grove, that needed some work, fixed it up and I will have paid off within 10 years by overpaying on my 30 year note. Maybe I should of said f*** it, and went into Hinsdale and got the house with the bling bling address and then watched as I go month to month.

 

 

The mortgage industry needs to re-evaulate on what is an appropriate risk for a lendee. If your house payment is 85% of your net for the month. Maybe its time to tell the morons that the house they want is too big. If you cannot pay your cable bill on time for 2 years, maybe they shouldn't be the one to get a mortgage.

Edited February 13, 2008 by southsideirish71

[iamshack]

Lower the business tax rates and you will attract a boatload of business to this country, and you will find multi-nationals re-patriating earnings from overseas.

 

Not when you're paying $8,500 annually in health care for each employee working here...or when hourly wages are triple or even 10 times here what they are in other countries.

 

An example, and this was discussed on the program that inspired this thread:

 

Detroit, MI used to be the city in North America where the most vehicles were manufactured- by far. Now Ontario, Canada is the city where most vehicles are manufactured in North America, because the health care costs per employee are 1/10th the price. How do we compete for those jobs?

 

Another example- Starbucks is now paying more $ in healthcare than they spend on coffee beans.

 

What corporation in their right mind would want to set up any part of their manufacturing process here in the United States?

 

How can we change that?

[HuskyCaucasian]

Not when you're paying $8,500 annually in health care for each employee working here...or when hourly wages are triple or even 10 times here what they are in other countries.

 

An example, and this was discussed on the program that inspired this thread:

 

Detroit, MI used to be the city in North America where the most vehicles were manufactured- by far. Now Ontario, Canada is the city where most vehicles are manufactured in North America, because the health care costs per employee are 1/10th the price. How do we compete for those jobs?

 

Another example- Starbucks is now paying more $ in healthcare than they spend on coffee beans.

 

What corporation in their right mind would want to set up any part of their manufacturing process here in the United States?

 

How can we change that?

VERY well written. I believe that was one of the points made in the show. It's amazing how all these problems intertwine.

[kapkomet]

Perhaps if people would't sue for 20 bazillion dollars when their pinky gets infected after they went to the doctor, or people go to the ER for a hangnail, etc the costs wouldn't be so damn high. But of course, it's always the evil capitalistic bastards driving costs up. You people do realize that all these costs are passthroughs by and large and the companies are getting charged more and more and more by whoever, using whatever factor is driving up the cost (malpractice insurance, suppliers, etc.) It's not like as a percentage the profits are growing any more. They're not, materially. MATERIALLY being the key word (I don't want to start a nitpick bulls*** thread).

 

[southsideirish71]

Perhaps if people would't sue for 20 bazillion dollars when their pinky gets infected after they went to the doctor, or people go to the ER for a hangnail, etc the costs wouldn't be so damn high. But of course, it's always the evil capitalistic bastards driving costs up. You people do realize that all these costs are passthroughs by and large and the companies are getting charged more and more and more by whoever, using whatever factor is driving up the cost (malpractice insurance, suppliers, etc.) It's not like as a percentage the profits are growing any more. They're not, materially. MATERIALLY being the key word (I don't want to start a nitpick bulls*** thread).

 

And lets not forget about the 12 million or so squatters who are still going to hospitals shockingly just in time for their anchor baby to be born here. Its not like they are paying one dime for healthcare.

[southsider2k5]

Perhaps if people would't sue for 20 bazillion dollars when their pinky gets infected after they went to the doctor, or people go to the ER for a hangnail, etc the costs wouldn't be so damn high. But of course, it's always the evil capitalistic bastards driving costs up. You people do realize that all these costs are passthroughs by and large and the companies are getting charged more and more and more by whoever, using whatever factor is driving up the cost (malpractice insurance, suppliers, etc.) It's not like as a percentage the profits are growing any more. They're not, materially. MATERIALLY being the key word (I don't want to start a nitpick bulls*** thread).

 

How many zeros is a bazillion, I need to know for my next lawsuit.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Afghanistan was one thing. IRAQ is a whole other. They invaded a country saying they were supporting terrorists, only to find out later there were no links. Over the last 3+ years we have been fighting over when and how to get them out. Investigations into corruption within the administration, and other wrong doing. All the time Bush suppresses government reports on global warming. Gives the Kyoto accords the middle finger. Let's oil companies money rape American citizens, healthcare companies charge record prices, America ranks 24th in the world in broadband penetration, a national debt that is ballooning out of control, ignored all these "sub-prime" and intrest only loans that even I know were bad ideas and I didnt go to Yale.

 

 

Iraq: Everybody and their brother, including most Democrats perceived Iraq as some form of "grave threat that needed to be dealt with". Bush does something about it and has been paying the price for it since. I will agree with you that it's time to start drawing down bigger numbers of troops than what is on the table from Bush.

 

Kyoto Accords: A giant "f*** America over" treaty that penalizes us while ignoring India and the current biggest polluter in the world.......China. Anyone with half a brain in their head would give that treaty the finger as unfair. This is especially true since all these pious, stuck-up Euro-assholes are seeing their own carbon hold constant while the U.S. actually saw a decrease in 2006 ( last year of available stats ). Hmmn. I guess that treaty really worked out for you guys huh?

 

http://www.mnp.nl/en/service/pressreleases...ndposition.html

 

If you want something substantive done about carbon emissions how about seeing the enviro-alarmists drop their arguments to Nuclear? It's perfectly clean, safe as anything else, and ZERO CARBON EMISSIONS! Alas, they are not interested in clean energy, just in rolling America back to the stone age.

 

Letting Oil Companies rape Americans: Oh boy, where do I begin on this one? Lets start by informing the economically ignorant that the President does not set the price of oil and neither do the oil companies. That is determined by a bunch of hair trigger traders in New York and Chicago. I guess Bush should just wave his hand and make high gas prices go away. That's about as realistic an expectation as getting Americans to deal with the real problem which is themselves and their gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks. When given the choice between taking responsibility for their own failings or blaming someone else, Americans will always choose option B. Pussies that we as a nation are.

 

America ranks 24th in broadband penetration: So now it's the federal government's duty to give everyone a blazing fast internet connection so they can download porn..er.......I mean enlighten themselves.......yeah. If you don't have access to broadband because it isn't available in your area, I have one word for you....satellite. If you're some minimum wage slave who can't afford it, I have another word: Library.

 

Healthcare companies charge record prices: This one's more fun than the oil part. If insurers weren't forced to pay for Viagra for some old pervert who can't get it up anymore, if they weren't sued 50 times a day by people who got denied for plastic surgery, if emergency rooms were actually used for emergencies and not every time someone's little snowflake catches a cold.........whew.......then maybe things wouldn't be so darn expensive.

 

National Debt out of control: I actually agree with you there. The Republicans have done an utterly disgraceful job of managing the purse strings. Runaway spending's bad mmmmmmmmmmmkay!

 

 

Subprime crisis: HAHAHAHA!!! Good one.........Oh wait, you were serious. Yeah YOU may know they were a bad idea, but to the knuckle-dragging masses out there who think they have money just because they have a check book it's a sweet deal. It, of course, is somehow government's fault when some Wal Mart drone making 9 dollars an hour takes out a loan for a house he couldn't possibly afford, doesn't read the fine print and doesn't care about the terms gets burned and loses something he had no business having in the 1st place? OHHHHHHHHH The humanity. This is just another symptom of our culture of instant gratification. Little things like personal responsibility and living within our means are old and busted.

 

WHEW!! I'm out of breath!

Edited February 13, 2008 by NUKE

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Lower the business tax rates and you will attract a boatload of business to this country, and you will find multi-nationals re-patriating earnings from overseas.

 

YOU EVIL SUPPLY SIDER!!!! HOW DARE YOU GO AROUND SPEWING FORTH VOO DOO ECONOMICS LIKE THAT!!!!!

 

 

SHAME!!!!!!!!!

 

[StrangeSox]

Iraq: Everybody and their brother, including most Democrats perceived Iraq as some form of "grave threat that needed to be dealt with". Bush does something about it and has been paying the price for it since. I will agree with you that it's time to start drawing down bigger numbers of troops than what is on the table from Bush.

 

After being fed tons and tons of rheotoric along the lines of "you're either with us (Bush admin.) or against us." And a bunch of bad intel.

 

Bush's desire to go to Iraq came first, not the other way around.

 

Letting Oil Companies rape Americans: Oh boy, where do I begin on this one? Lets start by informing the economically ignorant that the President does not set the price of oil and neither do the oil companies. That is determined by a bunch of hair trigger traders in New York and Chicago. I guess Bush should just wave his hand and make high gas prices go away. That's about as realistic an expectation as getting Americans to deal with the real problem which is themselves and their gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks. When given the choice between taking responsibility for their own failings or blaming someone else, Americans will always choose option B. Pussies that we as a nation are.

 

It would be nice to cut out the billions in subsidies to them.

Edited February 13, 2008 by StrangeSox

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I cant speak to the intricacies of how other countries work. But I saw in an interesting note the other day. Congress just passed a $150 billion stimulus package. $150 billion would pay to run fiber to EVERY home (and i think business) in the entire country! I am not saying we should run fiber instead of give people money, but it's an interesting comparison. If instead of spending $275 million per day in Iraq we turned that money around and ran fiber... we could have fiber to every home in America within 2 years.

 

 

The way things are now with the deficit and national debt, I'd rather just not spend it at all. The reason the economy is in such trouble right now is that consumers have been on an unsustainable coke-binge of spending for the last 10 years and now we're going to use deficit spending to serve up some more and say "go spend it!".

 

 

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

It would be nice to cut out the billions in subsidies to them.

 

 

..................and use those dollars to fund alternative energy research. Preferably something that doesn't do more harm than good like ethanol either.

 

Agree.

 

Still doesn't have anything to do with high oil/gasoline prices though.

Edited February 13, 2008 by NUKE

[StrangeSox]

..................and use those dollars to fund alternative energy research. Preferably something that doesn't do more harm than good like ethanol either.

 

Ethanol can be a good thing. Corn-based ethanol, not so much, but some of the switchgrass stuff is promising.

[Mplssoxfan]

The way things are now with the deficit and national debt, I'd rather just not spend it at all. The reason the economy is in such trouble right now is that consumers have been on an unsustainable coke-binge of spending for the last 10 years and now we're going to use deficit spending to serve up some more and say "go spend it!".

Better make your peace with whatever Deity you worship, I'm in full agreement with NUKE on an issue!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Ethanol can be a good thing. Corn-based ethanol, not so much, but some of the switchgrass stuff is promising.

 

 

I was all about ethanol as an environmentally friendly method of fueling our vehicles. That is, until I read further into it and saw how it was sending food prices to Pluto and causing more environmental damage than it saved due to clearing lands for more corn and such. At least the farmers are getting a better price for the corn they have.

[StrangeSox]

I was all about ethanol as an environmentally friendly method of fueling our vehicles. That is, until I read further into it and saw how it was sending food prices to Pluto and causing more environmental damage than it saved due to clearing lands for more corn and such. At least the farmers are getting a better price for the corn they have.

 

Yep, using food sources as fuel crops (and really inefficient fuel crops at that) is a terrible, terrible idea.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the "answer" to the sustainable energy question is actually several different technologies spread out instead of one do-it-all. Solar at home, plug-in hybrids, ethanol hybrids, more biodiesel, etc. etc.

[Cknolls]

And lets not forget about the 12 million or so squatters who are still going to hospitals shockingly just in time for their anchor baby to be born here. Its not like they are paying one dime for healthcare.

 

 

So insensitive!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Better make your peace with whatever Deity you worship, I'm in full agreement with NUKE on an issue!

 

 

Ain't that something.

 

 

 

Seems to me the biggest group of people in favor of this silliness are the politicians ( on both sides of the aisle ) who are falling all over themselves to see who can pander to the masses better than the other. Them and the knuckle-draggers out there who will use their check to put it down on a new ginormus 123451234 inch screen LCD TV that they have no business owning.

 

I got it!!! The newest and greatest in financial products!!! The SUBPRIME big screen TV loan!!!!

 

I'm such a genius. There's so many knuckle-dragging suckers out there that I could make a killing off this in no time.

Edited February 13, 2008 by NUKE

[StrangeSox]

Ain't that something.

 

Seems to me the biggest group of people in favor of this silliness are the politicians ( on both sides of the aisle ) who are falling all over themselves to see who can pander to the masses better than the other. Them and the knuckle-draggers out there who will use their check to put it down on a new ginormus 123451234 inch screen LCD TV that they have no business owning.

 

I got it!!! The newest and greatest in financial products!!! The SUBPRIME big screen TV loan!!!!

 

I'm such a genius. There's so many knuckle-dragging suckers out there that I could make a killing off this in no time.

 

Rent-A-Center is two steps ahead of you.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Rent-A-Center is two steps ahead of you.

 

 

CURSES!!!!!

 

I totally forgot about rent-to-own places.

 

 

[Texsox]

This is all b.s. the biggest challenge facing the next President is getting himself reelected and more representatives from his party elected during the mid term elections. That's been the same for 200 years. Everything else gets used to achieve that end.

[iamshack]

Yep, using food sources as fuel crops (and really inefficient fuel crops at that) is a terrible, terrible idea.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the "answer" to the sustainable energy question is actually several different technologies spread out instead of one do-it-all. Solar at home, plug-in hybrids, ethanol hybrids, more biodiesel, etc. etc.

 

Oh it absolutely will be- especially in a time where we are still trying to figure out how to make these technologies cost effective. At first, many of these technologies will supplement non-renewable energies, then they will supplement each other to replace non-renewable energies entirely, and then finally, one or two will probably emerge as the best of the bunch and that technology will be mainstream.

[southsider2k5]

The way things are now with the deficit and national debt, I'd rather just not spend it at all. The reason the economy is in such trouble right now is that consumers have been on an unsustainable coke-binge of spending for the last 10 years and now we're going to use deficit spending to serve up some more and say "go spend it!".

 

There is nothing that saids you have to spend it. You could either destroy the check, so the funds would stay with the federal government, or even donate to someone else who needs it more.

[dasox24]

Iraq: Everybody and their brother, including most Democrats perceived Iraq as some form of "grave threat that needed to be dealt with". Bush does something about it and has been paying the price for it since. I will agree with you that it's time to start drawing down bigger numbers of troops than what is on the table from Bush.

 

Kyoto Accords: A giant "f*** America over" treaty that penalizes us while ignoring India and the current biggest polluter in the world.......China. Anyone with half a brain in their head would give that treaty the finger as unfair. This is especially true since all these pious, stuck-up Euro-assholes are seeing their own carbon hold constant while the U.S. actually saw a decrease in 2006 ( last year of available stats ). Hmmn. I guess that treaty really worked out for you guys huh?

 

http://www.mnp.nl/en/service/pressreleases...ndposition.html

 

If you want something substantive done about carbon emissions how about seeing the enviro-alarmists drop their arguments to Nuclear? It's perfectly clean, safe as anything else, and ZERO CARBON EMISSIONS! Alas, they are not interested in clean energy, just in rolling America back to the stone age.

 

Letting Oil Companies rape Americans: Oh boy, where do I begin on this one? Lets start by informing the economically ignorant that the President does not set the price of oil and neither do the oil companies. That is determined by a bunch of hair trigger traders in New York and Chicago. I guess Bush should just wave his hand and make high gas prices go away. That's about as realistic an expectation as getting Americans to deal with the real problem which is themselves and their gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks. When given the choice between taking responsibility for their own failings or blaming someone else, Americans will always choose option B. Pussies that we as a nation are.

 

America ranks 24th in broadband penetration: So now it's the federal government's duty to give everyone a blazing fast internet connection so they can download porn..er.......I mean enlighten themselves.......yeah. If you don't have access to broadband because it isn't available in your area, I have one word for you....satellite. If you're some minimum wage slave who can't afford it, I have another word: Library.

 

Healthcare companies charge record prices: This one's more fun than the oil part. If insurers weren't forced to pay for Viagra for some old pervert who can't get it up anymore, if they weren't sued 50 times a day by people who got denied for plastic surgery, if emergency rooms were actually used for emergencies and not every time someone's little snowflake catches a cold.........whew.......then maybe things wouldn't be so darn expensive.

 

National Debt out of control: I actually agree with you there. The Republicans have done an utterly disgraceful job of managing the purse strings. Runaway spending's bad mmmmmmmmmmmkay!

Subprime crisis: HAHAHAHA!!! Good one.........Oh wait, you were serious. Yeah YOU may know they were a bad idea, but to the knuckle-dragging masses out there who think they have money just because they have a check book it's a sweet deal. It, of course, is somehow government's fault when some Wal Mart drone making 9 dollars an hour takes out a loan for a house he couldn't possibly afford, doesn't read the fine print and doesn't care about the terms gets burned and loses something he had no business having in the 1st place? OHHHHHHHHH The humanity. This is just another symptom of our culture of instant gratification. Little things like personal responsibility and living within our means are old and busted.

 

WHEW!! I'm out of breath!

Wow, you pretty much said everything I feel on those topics, but I didn't have to type it. Thanks! lol