Fascinating

[lvjeremylv]

Am I the only one that is fascinated by this congressional hearing regarding Roger Clemens and steroids? Maybe it's because I'm such a huge baseball fan and this puts into question all that we've seen over the past 2 decades, but I am drawn to this like a moth to a flame.

 

And am I the only one that thinks a good portion of our 2005 championship team was on something? Especially our bullpen. A lot of people had years that were so out of the norm that it certainly raises my eyebrows.

 

Neal Cotts in 2005 = 1.94 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 5.60 ERA

Cliff Politte in 2005 = 2.00 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 4.87 ERA

Dustin Hermanson in 2005 = 2.04 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 4.31 ERA

Jose Contreras in 2005 = 3.61 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 4.89 ERA

Jon Garland in 2005 = 3.50 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 4.58 ERA

 

Mark Buehrle also had a career best ERA in 2005 - although not quite as dramatic of an improvement as some of the others. That's 2 starters that improved their career ERA's by more than a full run, as well as our 3 main relievers who had an ERA of less than half of their career numbers.

 

Very suspicious to have that many people on the same team to have such dramatic improvements.

[Kyyle23]

Bullpen pitchers are always such a crapshoot, they can be lights out or just be flat out horrible. Many times when you see teams that win the world series, their bullpens will be having career years, with certain unexpected surprises leading the way, and then you see bullpens like the Sox had last year that completely implode as a whole. I think it is just the nature of the beast with bullpens, more than PEDs/Steroids/HGH

 

Im not completely ruling out drugs, but I wouldnt say they are more suspicious than any other World Series bullpen.

[fathom]

I think the only thing they were on was a hot streak. Since there was steroid testing in 2005, that would mean they would have had to be on HGH. I highly doubt they would have stopped using it then in 2006, when these guys sucked.

[SoxFan562004]

Am I the only one that is fascinated by this congressional hearing regarding Roger Clemens and steroids? Maybe it's because I'm such a huge baseball fan and this puts into question all that we've seen over the past 2 decades, but I am drawn to this like a moth to a flame.

 

And am I the only one that thinks a good portion of our 2005 championship team was on something? Especially our bullpen. A lot of people had years that were so out of the norm that it certainly raises my eyebrows.

 

Neal Cotts in 2005 = 1.94 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 5.60 ERA

Cliff Politte in 2005 = 2.00 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 4.87 ERA

Dustin Hermanson in 2005 = 2.04 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 4.31 ERA

Jose Contreras in 2005 = 3.61 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 4.89 ERA

Jon Garland in 2005 = 3.50 ERA Career (excluding 2005) = 4.58 ERA

 

Mark Buehrle also had a career best ERA in 2005 - although not quite as dramatic of an improvement as some of the others. That's 2 starters that improved their career ERA's by more than a full run, as well as our 3 main relievers who had an ERA of less than half of their career numbers.

 

Very suspicious to have that many people on the same team to have such dramatic improvements.

 

bull-pen arms are often very up and down, hence a lot of posters on this board objection to the long term signing of BP guys.

 

Jose was pitching different IMO, ie using his FB to get ahead and then devestating with his fork, when he struggles he throws way too many fork balls

 

MB had an ERA+ higher than his career average last year in '07

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/buehrma01.shtml

 

There has been no rumors about the '05 White Sox outside of Crazy Carl (I may be missing something, if I am please just post it). To win a WS you need some guys to have a career year or young players to take a major stepup, even the Yanks and Bo Sox need these things. I don't want to do the research but I imagine you can find similar number peaks for many members of WS teams throughout history

 

[Vance Law]

I think the only thing they were on was a hot streak. Since there was steroid testing in 2005, that would mean they would have had to be on HGH. I highly doubt they would have stopped using it then in 2006, when these guys sucked.

 

Exactly. Did all of these guys wait until there was steroid testing to start taking them? They weren't putting up those numbers before steroid testing. Why didn't the share the roids with the hitters and El Duque?

[bmags]

i think this is fascinating but more in the legal aspects. I don't really care for Clemens either way.

[EvilJester99]

I just wish it would end...I am sick of hearing about all this and there are so many bigger issues in the world to worry about than who was a doper.

[Soxbadger]

Its fascinating that congress doesnt have anything better to do.

 

I guess they already fixed all the problems with the govt so its time to fix the problems with other businesses?

 

[Leonard Zelig]

Maybe just Don Cooper was on the juice.

[joeynach]

I think everyone at this point acknowledges that in 2005 a lot of thing simply came together at the right time. A lot of guys had career years, we found jenks off waivers, pods stayed healthy, the twins took the year off, etc. Its the same way 2007 was such a disaster, everyone at the same time had the opposite of career years, career worst numbers. We won in 2005 because a lot of things came together on the positive side, we lost in 2007 becuase a lot of things came together on the negative side.

[Vance Law]

While I certainly don't wan to take anything away from the 2005 Sox, because I am forever grateful for that season, but the entire team had a horseshoe up their collective ass.

 

The entire pitching staff did (save Shingo and Duque). If the entire team had horseshoe ass, we may have won 140 games.

[lvjeremylv]

Its fascinating that congress doesnt have anything better to do.

 

I guess they already fixed all the problems with the govt so its time to fix the problems with other businesses?

 

Eh Congress does millions of things at the same time. This notion that they stop everything just because they're working on the steroid investigation is false. It was up to baseball to fix this problem, and they turned a blind eye to it for the better part of 2 decades. I'm glad someone is stepping in and trying to do something about it. It's unfortunate that the government has to intervene, but had they not, the problem would still be rampant.

[lvjeremylv]

I think the only thing they were on was a hot streak. Since there was steroid testing in 2005, that would mean they would have had to be on HGH. I highly doubt they would have stopped using it then in 2006, when these guys sucked.

A season long hot streak? For so many pitchers on the same team? I don't know about that. And if you think that there weren't any players still taking steroids in 2005 you are sadly mistaken. Rafael Palmeiro, who wagged his finger at the world while under oath before congress, tested positive, and he was basically at the tail end of his career. If he was still using after denying it so strongly, then anyone could have been using.

 

I can see a player using it for a short time, getting a desired result, and then quitting. The payday for having a career year is millions of dollars, which would be very tempting for an underachieving player nearing the end of his playing days. One final payday is alluring.

 

[Balta1701]

I can see a player using it for a short time, getting a desired result, and then quitting. The payday for having a career year is millions of dollars, which would be very tempting for an underachieving player nearing the end of his playing days. One final payday is alluring.

Did anyone on that 05 team actually get a big payday out of that season? The only one I can think of is Konerko. Politte, Hermanson were still under contract for 06, Cotts was still pre-arb, Jenks was a rookie, Vizcaino didn't have a career year, Marte was bad, etc. Contreras got an extension, Garland got a new contract but he was still pre-FA.

[fathom]

A season long hot streak? For so many pitchers on the same team? I don't know about that. And if you think that there weren't any players still taking steroids in 2005 you are sadly mistaken. Rafael Palmeiro, who wagged his finger at the world while under oath before congress, tested positive, and he was basically at the tail end of his career. If he was still using after denying it so strongly, then anyone could have been using.

 

I can see a player using it for a short time, getting a desired result, and then quitting. The payday for having a career year is millions of dollars, which would be very tempting for an underachieving player nearing the end of his playing days. One final payday is alluring.

 

And Raffy tested positive! Thanks for proving my point. I'm sure we could all speculate on players we think were on PEDs then and now. However, it's absolutely pointless at this time. Who cares...we beat three teams in the playoffs that had some of the most suspicious possible juicers on their teams in all of baseball, including Clemens and Pettitte.

[santo=dorf]

Say, has anybody noticed Frank hasn't been up the same type of numbers within the last few years compared to his early 90's days? Maybe he got off the junk when they started cracking down. Good season = on something.

 

 

 

 

Good grief.

[RME JICO]

I just hope this doesn't bleed over into the season.

 

In reference to the 2005 Sox, you can probably pull specific players from every World Series team that had career years the seasons they won. Most of the time it takes something like that to get them over the top.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Clemens must have given Canseco a lot of money. In his first book, he went out of his way to say Clemens would never cheat on his wife, and now with his statements about Clemens lack of HGH and steroid use.

[fathom]

Say, has anybody noticed Frank hasn't been up the same type of numbers within the last few years compared to his early 90's days? Maybe he got off the junk when they started cracking down. Good season = on something.

Good grief.

 

Pods must have started juicing before the playoffs that year...it's the only way to explain his 2 homers during the postseason.

[RME JICO]

Say, has anybody noticed Frank hasn't been up the same type of numbers within the last few years compared to his early 90's days? Maybe he got off the junk when they started cracking down. Good season = on something.

Holy cow, and how he got injured right when he came of the stuff. Man that sucks. Also, there is no way Cal Ripken played that many games in a row without some PEDs. Buehrle's no-hitter has HGH written all over it. Jenks consecutive innings streak was not aided by Ginseng, probably Andro.

[witesoxfan]

Clemens is a dirtbag and I hope after everything's over, he gets the book thrown at him.

[RME JICO]

Clemens is a dirtbag and I hope after everything's over, he gets the book thrown at him.

or a syringe.

 

McNamee used him like a dart board.

[lvjeremylv]

And Raffy tested positive! Thanks for proving my point. I'm sure we could all speculate on players we think were on PEDs then and now. However, it's absolutely pointless at this time. Who cares...we beat three teams in the playoffs that had some of the most suspicious possible juicers on their teams in all of baseball, including Clemens and Pettitte.

If my team cheated to win, I would care. And so would any true fan of the sport. Without integrity, you have nothing.

 

Did anyone on that 05 team actually get a big payday out of that season? The only one I can think of is Konerko. Politte, Hermanson were still under contract for 06, Cotts was still pre-arb, Jenks was a rookie, Vizcaino didn't have a career year, Marte was bad, etc. Contreras got an extension, Garland got a new contract but he was still pre-FA.

It was merely a statement that any player who uses HGH, steroids, etc will not necessarily use them for a prolonged time. The goal for some might be to win a championship.

[lvjeremylv]

Holy cow, and how he got injured right when he came of the stuff. Man that sucks. Also, there is no way Cal Ripken played that many games in a row without some PEDs. Buehrle's no-hitter has HGH written all over it. Jenks consecutive innings streak was not aided by Ginseng, probably Andro.

Your sarcasm is noted. But it's suspicious whenever a player goes from being very, very mediocre over a large period of time, to being dominant. To suggest otherwise is naive. Frank, when healthy, has always put up good numbers. He didn't start hitting home runs and being a stud overnight like a lot of players do and have.

[bmags]

Eh Congress does millions of things at the same time. This notion that they stop everything just because they're working on the steroid investigation is false. It was up to baseball to fix this problem, and they turned a blind eye to it for the better part of 2 decades. I'm glad someone is stepping in and trying to do something about it. It's unfortunate that the government has to intervene, but had they not, the problem would still be rampant.

 

thank you.