If you thought the subprime mortgage crisis was bad...

[Texsox]

There is no proof the dealership lied about her income. She claims she told them how much she made and that they agreed to change it together but how do we know thats true. She is desperate to give the car back so she will say anything that helps her case. She signed a contract saying she made that much so how do we know she told the salesman she didnt? The only way to prove it is if the salesman admitted it. Like I said before, nobody knows who changed the income on the second contract so how is the dealer all of a sudden committing fraud when for all we know she changed it. There would be no reason for the dealer to need to change the income if she was already approved at 6k.

 

If youre so concerned about her why dont you contact the news outlet she used and make a donation to her?

Whatever, she's stupid and stupid people deserve to get f***ed by unscrupulous companies.

 

[kapkomet]

Whatever, she's stupid and stupid people deserve to get f***ed by unscrupulous companies.

 

Whatever, unscrupulous people deserve to get nannified and ultra-protected by the system (read: government) and we un=unscrupulous folks can do whatever we want, because it'll all be ok!

 

[Texsox]

Whatever, unscrupulous people deserve to get nannified and ultra-protected by the system (read: government) and we un=unscrupulous folks can do whatever we want, because it'll all be ok!

 

 

First step, get rid of any fraud laws, because they rely on stupid gullible people.

 

If you get conned, you are stupid or greedy, therefore you can not be a victim. No victim, no crime. Open the prisons, we'll save a lot of money.

 

let's go find some retarded people and take their money!

[kapkomet]

First step, get rid of any fraud laws, because they rely on stupid gullible people.

 

If you get conned, you are stupid or greedy, therefore you can not be a victim. No victim, no crime. Open the prisons, we'll save a lot of money.

Whatever, nanny.

 

 

Do you think you could ever not take any extreme side? I know I can't.

 

 

I'm not called Kaperbole for nuthin'.

 

 

[Texsox]

 

What pisses me off this this scum could have sold her a $50,000 car, but he decided to really take her for all she had and more. He decides she's a stupid idiot who will sign for a more expensive car. And everyone here thinks it's her fault for being that stupid. No way this is a well rehearsed con.

 

And everyone calls her stupid and an idiot, but it's still her fault. I guess this scum found the perfect patsy. Just smart enough but not too smart. Because I know the folks here that rip this lady, would not do that if she was retarded. So she's just stupid enough to fall for this scums plan, but too smart to get any sympathy from anyone but me.

 

So perhaps an IQ of

>80

>100

 

We need to lock up stupid people, they do not deserve any protection. Do not let stupid people shop by themselves. Do not let stupid people buy anything. If they do and they get screwed, too bad, they should have known.

[kapkomet]

 

What pisses me off this this scum could have sold her a $50,000 car, but he decided to really take her for all she had and more. He decides she's a stupid idiot who will sign for a more expensive car. And everyone here thinks it's her fault for being that stupid. No way this is a well rehearsed con.

 

And everyone calls her stupid and an idiot, but it's still her fault. I guess this scum found the perfect patsy. Just smart enough but not too smart. Because I know the folks here that rip this lady, would not do that if she was retarded. So she's just stupid enough to fall for this scums plan, but too smart to get any sympathy from anyone but me.

 

So perhaps an IQ of

>80

>100

 

We need to lock up stupid people, they do not deserve any protection. Do not let stupid people shop by themselves. Do not let stupid people buy anything. If they do and they get screwed, too bad, they should have known.

At some point, seriously, common sense has to play a role. Someone who makes very little to no money doesn't need to go get a $100K BMW. It's not stupidity at that point, it's common sense. For the 10th time, the sales guy taking advantage of the situation is probably even more scum in my book. It's the same thing with houses. People making next to nothing with debt through their anuses should have NEVER been sold $500K+ houses. EVER. And that's on the scumbag assholes who sold them... which is why the banks who did this s*** are paying the price, as well as the people who have no common sense.

 

[Texsox]

Seriously, I am so aggravated at the sales scum, I have little aggravation left for her.

 

I seem to be the only one here who believes people can be a victim of a con and a smooth talking con man. If people always did what they knew, there would be no cons, no "morning after regrets", etc. I believe people can be led into messes like this. Someone coming off disability may have been especially vulnerable.

 

But the "kaperbole" is waaay more fun

[southsideirish71]

Seriously, I am so aggravated at the sales scum, I have little aggravation left for her.

 

I seem to be the only one here who believes people can be a victim of a con and a smooth talking con man. If people always did what they knew, there would be no cons, no "morning after regrets", etc. I believe people can be led into messes like this. Someone coming off disability may have been especially vulnerable.

 

But the "kaperbole" is waaay more fun

 

Sales scum is out there. I have no problem throwing venom in their direction. A person can be lead astray if say they are misrepresented on the price of the vehicle. My problem is when someone knows the price of an item and then cannot figure out that its expensive. A condo might cost 100k and yet you have 30 years to pay that note off not the 5 she probably got to pay the car off.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2008 by southsideirish71

[Balta1701]

Sales scum is out there. I have no problem throwing venom in their direction. A person can be lead astray if say they are misrepresented on the price of the vehicle. My problem is when someone knows the price of an item and then cannot figure out that its expensive. A condo might cost 100k and yet you have 30 years to pay that note off.

And since we're all pointing at the thing that bugs us the most, I'll point again at the fact that someone approved this loan without bothering to actually verify the income, thus allowing the fraud to take place due to simple laziness or due to that no longer being the job of anyone in the system.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Balta1701

[southsideirish71]

And since we're all pointing at the thing that bugs us the most, I'll point again at the fact that someone approved this loan without bothering to actually verify the income, thus allowing the fraud to take place due to simple laziness or due to that no longer being the job of anyone in the system.

 

The agencies who hand out loans to people who cannot possibly afford them are the worst type of scum. They should be held responsible and in some cases prosecuted.

 

[EvilMonkey]

Seriously, I am so aggravated at the sales scum, I have little aggravation left for her.

 

I seem to be the only one here who believes people can be a victim of a con and a smooth talking con man. If people always did what they knew, there would be no cons, no "morning after regrets", etc. I believe people can be led into messes like this. Someone coming off disability may have been especially vulnerable.

 

But the "kaperbole" is waaay more fun

Tex, she had to leave for at least a few hours to go get her $30,000 downpayment, so that alone should have been time for her to gather her wits (assuming she had any to begin with) and void the deal before any money changed hands. Unless she had it on her or keeps her life savings in her checking account, and then she is even dumber than most of us think.

 

And I echo Southsideirish's comments above.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Alpha Dog

[Harry Chappas]

 

What pisses me off this this scum could have sold her a $50,000 car, but he decided to really take her for all she had and more. He decides she's a stupid idiot who will sign for a more expensive car. And everyone here thinks it's her fault for being that stupid. No way this is a well rehearsed con.

 

And everyone calls her stupid and an idiot, but it's still her fault. I guess this scum found the perfect patsy. Just smart enough but not too smart. Because I know the folks here that rip this lady, would not do that if she was retarded. So she's just stupid enough to fall for this scums plan, but too smart to get any sympathy from anyone but me.

 

So perhaps an IQ of

>80

>100

 

We need to lock up stupid people, they do not deserve any protection. Do not let stupid people shop by themselves. Do not let stupid people buy anything. If they do and they get screwed, too bad, they should have known.

 

The thing that gets me to not really want to feel sorry for her is the $30K she had saved. She was bright enough to save it which puts here above 95% of America. We do not know what her disability was could she have been a con? If she had a good paying job that allowed her to save this much, why would the salesperson not believe she was credible enough to afford it.

 

With the $30K any salesman is going to get you what you want. If she insisted that she could afford it and wanted it, he is going to do what it takes to get her in it or the next BMW dealer will. There are 30,000 good reasons to do whatever it takes. The bank will give her the loan as she is worth the risk. Her best bet would've been to drive it into a lake and call it stolen.

 

 

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

Her best bet would've been to drive it into a lake and call it stolen.

Assuming her insurance was paid up!

[Texsox]

Tex, she had to leave for at least a few hours to go get her $30,000 downpayment, so that alone should have been time for her to gather her wits (assuming she had any to begin with) and void the deal before any money changed hands. Unless she had it on her or keeps her life savings in her checking account, and then she is even dumber than most of us think.

 

And I echo Southsideirish's comments above.

According to the article, she drove off with the car in under two hours.

 

Bottom line, most people believe she's stupid and an idiot, and deserves what she got. If you are stupid enough to fall for some con man's smooth pitch,

[sox4lifeinPA]

And since we're all pointing at the thing that bugs us the most, I'll point again at the fact that someone approved this loan without bothering to actually verify the income, thus allowing the fraud to take place due to simple laziness or due to that no longer being the job of anyone in the system.

 

 

very good point. A pay stub should have been supplied....but IIRC, they usually only do these things by credit check, which at best will give you your score and maybe debt to income. Haven't bought a car in a while, so I don't know.

 

at the bank, we'd want pay stubs, definitely.

 

[Texsox]

The thing that gets me to not really want to feel sorry for her is the $30K she had saved. She was bright enough to save it which puts here above 95% of America. We do not know what her disability was could she have been a con? If she had a good paying job that allowed her to save this much, why would the salesperson not believe she was credible enough to afford it.

 

With the $30K any salesman is going to get you what you want. If she insisted that she could afford it and wanted it, he is going to do what it takes to get her in it or the next BMW dealer will. There are 30,000 good reasons to do whatever it takes. The bank will give her the loan as she is worth the risk. Her best bet would've been to drive it into a lake and call it stolen.

 

When she told the salesperson her income, he would have known she would not qualify. The only way for him to make that sales was to

A. Get her to write down what she believed she would be earning as soon as she was off disability

and

B. To then change the number even higher after she signed the contract

 

But if you are stupid enough to go along with the salesperson, you deserve what you get.

[sox4lifeinPA]

When she told the salesperson her income, he would have known she would not qualify. The only way for him to make that sales was to

A. Get her to write down what she believed she would be earning as soon as she was off disability

and

B. To then change the number even higher after she signed the contract

 

But if you are stupid enough to go along with the salesperson, you deserve what you get.

 

 

 

dude, tex, we're sorry your sister got duped into buying this car... drop it

[southsideirish71]

When she told the salesperson her income, he would have known she would not qualify. The only way for him to make that sales was to

A. Get her to write down what she believed she would be earning as soon as she was off disability

and

B. To then change the number even higher after she signed the contract

 

But if you are stupid enough to go along with the salesperson, you deserve what you get.

 

A.) If she doesnt realize that 100k car is a lot of money and while on disability its not wise then she is at fault as well.

 

B.) If they told her the car was 30k and then it became 100k then sure. But she knew the price.

[Balta1701]

A.) If she doesnt realize that 100k car is a lot of money and while on disability its not wise then she is at fault as well.

 

B.) If they told her the car was 30k and then it became 100k then sure. But she knew the price.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they focused hard on the payments and not on the total value. That's what I was instructed to do when I was in sales, that's what the Salesperson tried to do with me when I bought my Civic, etc.

[santo=dorf]

Yes, they changed her income from $6000 to $8600 to get it approved by the lender. The dealership (actually the salesperson) showed her a way she could lie and get that car. The salesperson knew he could not make a sale without a fraudulent application and convinced her to do it. Yes, she should have been smarter to listen to the salesperson. Lucky for the sales rep he found someone really stupid for his con.

That is really fishy to me. She has no copy of paperwork that says 8600 a month? Why is this so hard to fight?

 

We really don't know what went on in the conversation that got it up to 6k a month. She could've said or implied she was getting off of disability within a certain time frame and she would be back up to 6k a month. But for personal responsibility, come on! What was this woman thinking? Nobody else reviewed this contract with her? What made her some impulsive to get a $100k car if she had limited funds?

[southsideirish71]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they focused hard on the payments and not on the total value. That's what I was instructed to do when I was in sales, that's what the Salesperson tried to do with me when I bought my Civic, etc.

 

But when you bought your Civic the price was on the sticker on the side of the car. Each car had the price laid out. And even if they went to the payments. How much are the payments for 70k left on a 5 year note. You knew the price of the car when you bought it. And so did she.

[DrunkBomber]

Ok, it was overwhelmingly agreed that the salesman and dealership were shady for at best assisting her in getting the car. However, what I keep pointing out is that we have no idea what was said between her and the salesman. For all anyone knows she told the dealer she made 6k per month straight up. She had 30k to put down so she wasnt exactly living in poverty.

 

Look at that 30k like PMI on a mortgage. The more of your own money you contribute the less of a risk it appears you are to default. Im sure the lender would have laughed at her if she tried to buy the car no money down but who is gonna put down 30k on a lease and then not pay for it? Can you blame the lender for approving it? In the long run theyre gonna get the car back and are going to be able to keep the 30k and whatever payments she did make so maybe it wasnt a bad move on their part.

 

As much as she had help making this mistake, she still brought it upon herself.

[Texsox]

You all are right. But realize we are saying there can be no 100% victims of fraud, they all should have known. No matter how stupid, gullible, naive, you are, you should have known. At worst case, you should know how stupid you are and not go into stores without a lawyer.

 

Anyone surprised you can walk in and buy a $100,000 car, lie about your income, have the dealership alter the contract, and in less than two hours drive off the lot in the car?

 

Stupid people when they get screwed.

 

And with that, I'm done. No wonder our corporations are morally bankrupt. People accept companies screwing over anyone who is stupid. You can't be a victim if you are stupid enough to sign the contract. But then nobody is that stupid to sign a contract without understanding it.

[StrangeSox]

You all are right. But realize we are saying there can be no 100% victims of fraud, they all should have known. No matter how stupid, gullible, naive, you are, you should have known. At worst case, you should know how stupid you are and not go into stores without a lawyer.

 

Anyone surprised you can walk in and buy a $100,000 car, lie about your income, have the dealership alter the contract, and in less than two hours drive off the lot in the car?

 

Stupid people when they get screwed.

 

And with that, I'm done. No wonder our corporations are morally bankrupt. People accept companies screwing over anyone who is stupid. You can't be a victim if you are stupid enough to sign the contract. But then nobody is that stupid to sign a contract without understanding it.

 

For the 100th time, no we're not. The dealership did not lie to her. This isn't a situation of them ripping her off or charging her more. They didn't give her a fake BMW, or one that was about to fall apart. They did not con her. She made a very dumb financial decision, and together, they agreed to lie to the lender so that she could get the car that she wanted at the payments she agreed to.

 

This is not the same as a mechanic making up problems and lying to the customer, a dentist making up cavities and lying to the customer, or your example of the old lady and the furnace repair guy lying to the customer. Those are cons. Swindling you out of your money on a scheme is a con because they are, again, lying to the customer. In this case, they are lying to the bank together.

 

Did the dealership act improperly? Sure. Are they more to blame than the customer? Absolutely. Was the bank dumb for not verifying the income? Definitely. Do they both deserve to get burned on this transaction? Yes.

 

But, at the end of the day, if this woman had an ounce of self-control, this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

Edited February 16, 2008 by StrangeSox

[sox4lifeinPA]

But, at the end of the day, if this woman had an ounce of self-control, this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

 

and a dealership willing to help her commit fraud.