Soxy Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Please play nice with each other. Consider this the only warning this thread will get. Personally, I am not convinced that our lack of God as a nation is the cause of the school shooting/violence in general. Several countries with MUCH more agnostic/atheist tendencies don't have NEARLY the problem we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Soxy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:17 AM) Please nice with each other. Consider this the only warning this thread will get. Personally, I am not convinced that our lack of God as a nation is the cause of the school shooting/violence in general. Several countries with MUCH more agnostic/atheist tendencies don't have NEARLY the problem we do. It's not about God. Sometimes people who are brought up in insanely religious families go apesh*t as well. Personally, it's situations like this that make me wonder why so many people are against stricter firearm regulations. i fully support hunters rights, but why do we need handguns and automatic weapons? both were ONLY designed to kill PEOPLE. There is NO reason an average civilian should need or have either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I think that the degredation of religion in the eyes of many is a contributing factor in the decay of civilization. Ordinary people don't kill for a variety of reasons. Usually because they learn that it is wrong. They learn this from parents, school, church and society in general. But if the impact of church is dimished, that lessens the amout of (usually) positive influence a perosn gets. With all the violence in movies and on TV, and the seemingly decline in parental skills and responsibility, its a wonder more people don't snap. To them, they may think they are acting rationally, because the inputs in their life tells them so. So do I think the lack of God is THE cause? No, but I believe it is part of the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:21 AM) It's not about God. Sometimes people who are brought up in insanely religious families go apesh*t as well. Personally, it's situations like this that make me wonder why so many people are against stricter firearm regulations. i fully support hunters rights, but why do we need handguns and automatic weapons? both were ONLY designed to kill PEOPLE. There is NO reason an average civilian should need or have either. I easily see two sides to this... 1) If everyone had a gun, there could be less risk of violence because of fear of being shot back at. 2) If guns were banned to only "hunting" for civilians and handguns for law enforcement, there would be less fo a chance for guns to be grabbed by gang members and such. I dunno where I stand to be honest. I am really torn. In a case like this where it was basically a suicide gunning, even if every student had a gun he still would have killed some people. I dont like guns. I never have, I never will. They scare the $H1T out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:21 AM) It's not about God. Sometimes people who are brought up in insanely religious families go apesh*t as well. Personally, it's situations like this that make me wonder why so many people are against stricter firearm regulations. i fully support hunters rights, but why do we need handguns and automatic weapons? both were ONLY designed to kill PEOPLE. There is NO reason an average civilian should need or have either. Illinois already has the strictest gun laws in the nation, and yet this still happened. And wasn't the weapon a shotgun? Handguns are already restricted in Chicago. Does that stop handgun violence? No. Automatic weapons have been heavily regulated since the 30's. There have been virtually zero crimes committed with legally owned ones since then (I think there was one case, and it was an cop who went off the deep end). Back on topic: People always find a way to blame something they don't like for a horrific situation. Whether it's TV, video games, rock music, or lack of God, some will use it as proof of their agenda. I don't think that's the case at all for the reason Soxy pointed out in her post -- there's much less religious countries than this one, but they don't have instances like this. Edited February 15, 2008 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:31 AM) I easily see two sides to this... 1) If everyone had a gun, there could be less risk of violence because of fear of being shot back at. 2) If guns were banned to only "hunting" for civilians and handguns for law enforcement, there would be less fo a chance for guns to be grabbed by gang members and such. I dunno where I stand to be honest. I am really torn. In a case like this where it was basically a suicide gunning, even if every student had a gun he still would have killed some people. I dont like guns. I never have, I never will. They scare the $H1T out of me. if everyone had a gun there would be eternal paranoia. not something i'm too fond of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:33 AM) if everyone had a gun there would be eternal paranoia. not something i'm too fond of. I meant to point that out as well. I would feel LESS safe if I knew the 10 people around me at the mall had a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:34 AM) I meant to point that out as well. I would feel LESS safe if I knew the 10 people around me at the mall had a gun. What if a couple of those victems at Tinley Park had a gun when that sick mofo was executing one after the other? If I was on my knees with a gun at the back of my head, I would have felt a bit safer, knowing they might get him before he got me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 If we want a gun debate, let's start a separate thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:33 AM) if everyone had a gun there would be eternal paranoia. not something i'm too fond of. But there would be less gun violence. Illinois needs to have a concealed carry law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:39 AM) If we want a gun debate, let's start a separate thread. I was just about to say sorry for hijacking the thread. Didnt mean to get so far off course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:38 AM) What if a couple of those victems at Tinley Park had a gun when that sick mofo was executing one after the other? If I was on my knees with a gun at the back of my head, I would have felt a bit safer, knowing they might get him before he got me. point is... if there was better gun control your sick mofo wouldn't have had one to begin with. EDIT: Yeah... sorry for starting the gun thing... making Soxy work extra hard today w/ all these new threads. haha Edited February 15, 2008 by Reddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:42 AM) point is... if there was better gun control your sick mofo wouldn't have had one to begin with. Only sick mofo's would have them. Edited February 15, 2008 by YASNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:42 AM) point is... if there was better gun control your sick mofo wouldn't have had one to begin with. The bad guys, the ones intending to harm, will ALWAYS find a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Let's get back on the point guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Gun laws don't work for criminals....they will get the guns anyway. Only people they are disarming are your average civilians who will now become even easier prey for the criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 New thread made for gun debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:47 AM) New thread made for gun debate Good deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:45 AM) The bad guys, the ones intending to harm, will ALWAYS find a way. i understand that - BUT i'd be willing to bet that the average criminal would have a much harder time acquiring and using a gun. Yes - sick and twisted individuals will always exist and always find a way, but making it harder for the average criminal to have a gun should be the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I purpously avoided saying anything about the gun comment so as not to derail. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Ok ... I made a comment in the NIU thread that maybe we took God out of the schools too soon. I'm fairly confident that my remark inspired this thread. Thoughts on the intended thread topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 ok and... back to God. question: why would God in schools help keep this from happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:50 AM) ok and... back to God. question: why would God in schools help keep this from happening? Look at history for a moment. When did the SCOTUS rule that school prayer was unconstitutional? 61 - 62? What was our country like (exempting civil rights issues, because that is one area we have drastically improved on) at that time. America was called 'Camelot' because of the quality of life in this country. The family was still strong, the nation was strong. JFK was leading us into what appeared to be even better times. Then he was shot. The beginning of Americans not trusting their gov't started on that day. We've been on a downhill spiral ever since that happened. I happened to believe that there is a definite correlation between that decision and moral and social decay of our nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 10:58 AM) Look at history for a moment. When did the SCOTUS rule that school prayer was unconstitutional? 61 - 62? What was our country like (exempting civil rights issues, because that is one area we have drastically improved on) at that time. America was called 'Camelot' because of the quality of life in this country. The family was still strong, the nation was strong. JFK was leading us into what appeared to be even better times. Then he was shot. The beginning of Americans not trusting their gov't started on that day. We've been on a downhill spiral ever since that happened. I happened to believe that there is a definite correlation between that decision and moral and social decay of our nation. ok, so say we take all that as a given. why is the answer forcing all kids in school to believe in the Christian God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 15, 2008 -> 04:50 PM) question: why would God in schools help keep this from happening? It's an absolutely absurd assertion, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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