Milkman delivers Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 10:51 PM) That was another classic game. That 4th quarter was incredible, by my God, the refs were terrible. I can't say it was classic because of the officiating. If the refs didn't suck so much, that would have easily been one of the best Superbowl games I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 10:39 PM) What do you want them to review? His arm was hit and the ball was jarred loose...all while the ball was behind his head. Not really the point though, the point is they should've reviewed it just on principle. It probably would've been upheld, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 What is the exact ruling on that because it looked like his hand was moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 11:06 PM) What is the exact ruling on that because it looked like his hand was moving forward. If you're throwing the ball and your hand is in front of your head with possession, it's an incomplete pass. If your hand is behind your head and the ball is jarred loose, it's a fumble. I'mm 97% sure that the ball came loose. It's a matter of physics- ball in Warner's hand meets Harrison's body = fumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I thought it was a forward pass but yeah it was ridiculous it wasnt reviewed. That being said the Cardinals defense only has themselves to blame, let an underwhelming offense beat them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Other than not reviewing Warner's last pass (I thought it was a fumble), the officiating was fine. All the Cardinals D had to do, much like the Patriots D last year, was get ONE stop. That's it. And the title was theirs. You give up an 80-yard TD drive in just over two minutes in that situation? Nobody to blame but themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 09:24 PM) Ben has always protected them to the media, even as they were getting his ass killed every week. Steelers need to completely revamp the OL in the offseason. That's actually a scary thought to think of what they could do with an upgraded line. It was pretty much a patchwork line all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) The refs were bad, but it was still an all time great Super Bowl, if not game in general. The Cardinals have nobody to blame but themselves for that loss. Kurt Warner caused a direct swing of 10 to 14 points by forgetting where the defensive player of the year was, the Cardinals forgot they had Larry Fitzgerald for 3 quarters, and they STILL led with 2:30 to go, only to see their defense not get it done. The Cardinals were the better team tonight, but shot themselves in the foot (as much as people hate it, those penalties on Arizona were legit except the roughing the passer which should have been intentional grounding) and it cost them a ring. Great game though, so many memorable plays. I also thought Pittsburgh's defensive coaching staff had a bad night as they didn't blitz nearly enough. Fortunately for them, Arizona wasn't on the field hardly at all the first 3 quarters thanks to some ball control offense from Big Ben and the boys, but it nearly came back to haunt them in the 4th quarter when the Steelers offense went cold and Arizona got it's chances. Big Ben and Santonio bailed them out in the end though, as did James Harrison and his amazing play to end the 1st half. Edited February 2, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 01:30 AM) Other than not reviewing Warner's last pass (I thought it was a fumble), the officiating was fine. All the Cardinals D had to do, much like the Patriots D last year, was get ONE stop. That's it. And the title was theirs. You give up an 80-yard TD drive in just over two minutes in that situation? Nobody to blame but themselves. The officiating didn't effect the outcome of the game, but it was still really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Feb 1, 2009 -> 10:29 PM) If you're throwing the ball and your hand is in front of your head with possession, it's an incomplete pass. If your hand is behind your head and the ball is jarred loose, it's a fumble. I'mm 97% sure that the ball came loose. It's a matter of physics- ball in Warner's hand meets Harrison's body = fumble. Im pretty sure the determination of pass or fumble comes when they look at whether the arm is coming forward or not. I have never heard it "in front of the head with possession" or "behind the head" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 06:51 AM) Im pretty sure the determination of pass or fumble comes when they look at whether the arm is coming forward or not. I have never heard it "in front of the head with possession" or "behind the head" Okay, do a throwing motion for me. Even if your arm is coming forward, yet your hand is still behind your head, it's not a fumble. If your hand would be past your ear, then it's a fumble. If it's even with your head....then I don't know what the call would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 08:44 AM) Okay, do a throwing motion for me. Even if your arm is coming forward, yet your hand is still behind your head, it's not a fumble. If your hand would be past your ear, then it's a fumble. If it's even with your head....then I don't know what the call would be. Except his arm was down and not around his head so that doesnt always work. Whether or not the arm is behind or in front of the QB's head is not written anywhere in the rule. It was probably a fumble, but it did appear that maybe his arm had started the forward movement when he got hit. At any rate, not reviewing that play was completely inappropriate. I wouldnt be surprised if the NFL didnt review it only because it was so close and they didnt want their replay system scrutinized. The officiating is NOT why the Cardinals lost. That being said, it was attrocious. The roughing the passer was bulls***, there were two non-calls on what were probably intentional grounding on Roethlisberger, there was a potential clip on Hightower on the Harrison run back, the running into the holder was iffy, and the hold on Ward was iffy. Also, is there still the halo rule for punt returns? I dont remember if they removed it or not but if they didnt it should have been called in the 4th. And Harrison is a dumbass and is lucky he wasnt tossed. That was almost a punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 09:42 AM) Except his arm was down and not around his head so that doesnt always work. Whether or not the arm is behind or in front of the QB's head is not written anywhere in the rule. It was probably a fumble, but it did appear that maybe his arm had started the forward movement when he got hit. At any rate, not reviewing that play was completely inappropriate. I wouldnt be surprised if the NFL didnt review it only because it was so close and they didnt want their replay system scrutinized. The officiating is NOT why the Cardinals lost. That being said, it was attrocious. The roughing the passer was bulls***, there were two non-calls on what were probably intentional grounding on Roethlisberger, there was a potential clip on Hightower on the Harrison run back, the running into the holder was iffy, and the hold on Ward was iffy. Also, is there still the halo rule for punt returns? I dont remember if they removed it or not but if they didnt it should have been called in the 4th. And Harrison is a dumbass and is lucky he wasnt tossed. That was almost a punch I also noticed all of these things. From what I can remember, it was the worst called Superbowl I've ever seen. It reminded me of every single Patriots Superbowl win with every call going against the opposing team and every break going for New England. Edited February 2, 2009 by Milkman delivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Brian...all I've ever heard is that the arm is going forward. Never anything about this head rule. Warners arm was clearly moving forward (his hand was still back) and until i see something in the rule book about this head stuff I'm going to assume that the refs made the wrong call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Warner obviously made a throwing motion on that fateful play, but he didn't have control of the ball. It was clearly stripped and coming loose before the arm went forward and thus, the ball went forward. I am baffled as to why people think it's a pass (other than all the bandwagoners who rooted for Arizona being biased), this isn't the first time the ball went forward on a fumble involving the QB and it won't be the last. The hand doesn't have to be completely empty for it to be a fumble, because it's still a fumble if the QB doesn't have control of the ball as it begins to go forward, and he didn't. You can't be "throwing" something you don't have control of. Edited February 2, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 By the NFL's definitions, that was a forward pass, and AT LEAST warranted review. For them to let Pittsburgh run a play at such an important time is a joke, and completely ruined that game for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 10:36 AM) By the NFL's definitions, that was a forward pass, and AT LEAST warranted review. For them to let Pittsburgh run a play at such an important time is a joke, and completely ruined that game for me. If Warner had actually controlled the ball until it came completely free, I'd agree it was a forward pass. To me, the initial contact is what jarred the ball loose (which was before the arm started forward), but since the ball didn't jar completely free right away (it took about an extra quarter second or so), the ball went forward. Even if you watch it with red shaded glasses, it is at most inconclusive (I don't think it's that close at all), and it was called a fumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 10:41 AM) If Warner had actually controlled the ball until it came completely free, I'd agree it was a forward pass. To me, the initial contact is what jarred the ball loose (which was before the arm started forward), but since the ball didn't jar completely free right away (it took about an extra quarter second or so), the ball went forward. Even if you watch it with red shaded glasses, it is at most inconclusive (I don't think it's that close at all), and it was called a fumble. However, it still warranted review. I have seen by NFL definition that called a forward pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 10:41 AM) If Warner had actually controlled the ball until it came completely free, I'd agree it was a forward pass. To me, the initial contact is what jarred the ball loose (which was before the arm started forward), but since the ball didn't jar completely free right away (it took about an extra quarter second or so), the ball went forward. Even if you watch it with red shaded glasses, it is at most inconclusive (I don't think it's that close at all), and it was called a fumble. Sure you could say all of that after seeing the replay 15 times. In the speed of the game it wasn't as obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 10:43 AM) However, it still warranted review. I have seen by NFL definition that called a forward pass. It warranted review obviously, but the call would have been upheld anyways, and that's all that really matters. It was a very unique play though because it's rare to see a quarterback have the ball jarred loose like that but have it not actually pop out right away. There were actually several strange plays last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 10:43 AM) However, it still warranted review. Indeed. How many times have we all seen plays that had no business being reviewed in the booth? Seems like it happens in almost every NFL game and for them not to do that under these circumstances is astonishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 10:45 AM) Sure you could say all of that after seeing the replay 15 times. In the speed of the game it wasn't as obvious. Which the officials could have done. I think the fact htat it was not reviewed is huge. You add the 15 yards onto the end of the play for the Unsportsmanlike and now the Cards are really in business. To not review it is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 10:46 AM) It warranted review obviously, but the call would have been upheld anyways, and that's all that really matters. It was a very unique play though because it's rare to see a quarterback have the ball jarred loose like that but have it not actually pop out right away. There were actually several strange plays last night. Exactly... you just said it yourself, it didn't pop out right away. He got an awkward pass off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 2, 2009 -> 10:51 AM) Exactly... you just said it yourself, it didn't pop out right away. He got an awkward pass off. It didn't pop out, but it was clearly loose, which means it didn't have control of it. And you can't throw a pass if you don't have control of the ball, it's just a fumble that went forward. I won't argue that it's bad it wasn't reviewed though, it's pretty asinine to not look at it. Even if it hadn't been as "close" as it was, you still take a look. I just think the call was right, so them not looking at it didn't actually cost somebody something. Edited February 2, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I've heard, but have not confirmed, that they actually did review the play quickly but the TV crew dropped the ball. But I'm not completely buying it since a review takes at least a couple minutes to make sure it's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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