NCsoxfan Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Wallace and Joe Smith for Drew Gooden, Cedric Simmons and Larry Hughes Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 GREAT TRADE PAX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonik22 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Wallace sucked, i liked Joe Smith though. I like this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Wow, I would take Hughes and Gooden for Wallace any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 i like the trade. at this point, any deal that got rid of wallace was fine by me. nothing personal, but noah and thomas need to play. not sure what cleveland was thinking, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Regardless, this Bulls team has no vision, no plan, no super-star, no chance at a top 5 pick, no chance of going far in the playoffs, no nothing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 What? A trade that isn't bringing anyone else out West? Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think Pax should be canned. He really messed up the past year, and he is the one that needs to take responsibility.... Failing to trade for Pau was a MAJOR mistake. I dont buy into the logic that it wasn't his fault. Pax failed to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 What are the contracts for Hughes and Gooden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 NC they did us a favor.Anyone that would give us any talent for that jamoch Ben Wallace loves us deeply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Feb 21, 2008 -> 03:07 PM) What are the contracts for Hughes and Gooden? I think Hughes has big money and 2 years left after this one, and Gooden has 1 more year after this one. While I like Ben Wallace being gone, I don't see how this move helps the team win, other than open up PT for Thomas and Noah. Of course sitting Wallace down would have accomplished that. I think Smith is better than Gooden, and Hughes doesn't do much for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Don't underestimate what we got in Cedric Simmons. Simmons is a high upside guy, he was basically Cleveland's Tyrus. He was drafted just after Thabo and Ronnie Brewer. DraftExpress rated him as a "project" and said best case scenario was a "Poor Man's Dwight Howard" and worst case was Kendrick Perkins. Read below all that they had to say about him. link Strengths In terms of physical attributes, Simmons has a great package. He stands 6-10 in shoes, with an outstanding 7-4 wingspan. His frame is outstanding and will undoubtedly fill out perfectly as he continues to mature physically. As an athlete, Simmons has a terrific bounce to his step, fitting the bill and then some for a modern day NBA power forward or center. He has outstanding quickness in particular, great explosiveness with his vertical leap, and very solid footspeed. Offensively, Simmons is raw, but shows sparks of potential at times with the moves he’ll make in the post, for example with an occasional spin-move, drop-step, or pivot move. He appears to be a well-coached player and a fairly quick learner, which leaves some room for optimism about the fact that he will develop into a capable offensive player down the road. As a passer is where he surprises you the most, clearly having learned a thing or two from the Princeton offense and showing signs of solid court vision with the bounce passes he’ll drop from the high or low post. Although he rarely got a chance to show it, his jump-shot doesn’t look half bad, either. He elevates off the floor the way a small forward would, and has nice mechanics complete with a high release point. Where Simmons will be able to offer the most early on in his career is as a defender and rebounder. His size, length and athleticism help him out greatly in this area, but he is also not afraid to throw his body around down low to make his presence felt. He covers ground quickly and elevates intelligently from the weak-side to come up with blocks, and will even block shots on the ball on occasion, showing nice timing in the process. Simmons boxes out well for rebounds, and again, effort is never an issue with him. His tenacity helps him out greatly as a rebounder, and it’s not rare to see him go well out of his area to track one down, particularly on the offensive end. His court demeanor is solid and by all accounts he’s an excellent kid off the court who is likely to achieve his upside due to his solid work-ethic. There is little doubt that he hasn’t reached anywhere near his full potential as a player. Weaknesses Simmons wasn’t a particularly dominant force on the collegiate level besides a few occasional sparks he showed at times. It’s fairly obvious that he is more of a long term project due to his youth and lack of all-around polish, so patience will be needed from the team that drafts him. Offensively is where Simmons has the furthest to go at this point. He looks very mechanical in many of the moves he makes, being highly tentative and not exactly sure of what he is capable of executing effectively. The lack of touch he shows around the hoop is what will need to improve the most, as he at times just tries to throw the ball at the basket from 5-8 out rather than being fundamentally sound and efficient with the moves he attempts. Developing a go-to move should be a priority for him. His left-hand is almost non-existent, favoring his right so strongly that he becomes a little predictable at times. He doesn’t really know how to use his body well enough to establish position down in the post, being pushed around for the most part due to his current lack of strength. In all fairness, though, Simmons never got anywhere near the amount of touches he deserved in the conservative and perimeter oriented N.C. State version of the Princeton offense, which may have affected his confidence and slowed down his learning curve to a certain extent. Very often he’d have his man sealed, only to be completely ignored by his wing players due to their obsession with backdoor cuts and fadeaway 3-pointers. . Although once in a blue moon he would show some sparks of potential, for the most part Simmons’ face-up game is nowhere near polished enough. His ball-handling skills are what he is lacking the most, from the perimeter in particular but also in the post while trying to create offense for himself. Defensively, there is plenty of room for improvement as well. Although his frame is excellent, his body has yet to fill out, which means he gets pinned down or outmuscled quite frequently. His timing and footwork still aren’t 100%, but for the most part most of his weaknesses here revolve around his lack of strength and experience. Foul trouble has been a major issue for him in his college career thus far. He often sticks his hands in places they should not be, and tries to save the day at times with a spectacular play rather than helping his team more by allowing himself to stay on the floor. One thing Simmons will enjoy in the NBA more than college is the fact that he’ll allowed to actually be physical in the post, the way he enjoys, and throw his body around. Competition Simmons played for NC State, a consistently good to very good team that plays in one of the tougher conferences in America, the ACC. As a freshman he was almost a complete non-factor (10 minutes per game) on a team that was owned for all intents and purposes by current Denver Nuggets guard Julius Hodge. With Hodge graduating, Simmons stepped into a bigger role for the Wolf Pack (12 points, 6 rebounds, 2.5 blocks, 1.7 assists per game), but was very inconsistent due to his lack of polish, foul trouble and the fact that he clearly wasn’t a great fit in the Princeton offense. Outlook Simmons is in good shape for this draft, as his combination of strengths (height, length, frame, athleticism, tenacity, attitude, budding skills, upside) is extremely rare, while his weaknesses are, for the most part, highly improvable. He is still testing the waters at this point in late May, but is likely to stay in the draft once he’s told that he’s a likely top-20 pick. This is not a great draft year for bigs, and if teams will reach for someone, it will be for a player like Cedric Simmons. He’ll probably be drafted somewhere from the late lottery to late teens when it’s all said and done. He projects as a power forward, but can certainly steal some minutes at center due to his length and athleticism in today’s small-ball infatuated NBA, particularly once he adds weight to his terrific frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Trade a was a three way trade. Bulls gave up Wallace, Smith and Adrian Griffin for Gooden, Hughes, Simmons and Shannon Brown. Griffin goes to Seattle and the Cavs also get the Bulls' second round draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I actually like Larry Hughes alot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Too bad Joe Smith had to go, but with the salary matching restrictions, I can see why he may have had to be included. Bye bye Ben. Trade the other Ben next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I agree about Simmons. I actually went to school with Cedric, so I saw him play all the time. He is still very much a project, but could be a force a few years down the road. Why were the Bulls willing to take on salary for these guys but not Gasol? I dont see Paxsons plan, at all. I think he has A LOT of explaining to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Well im pretty sure for Gasol the Bulls had to trade young guys, not old guys. I doubt the Bulls turned down Wallace and Smith for Gasol... Its clear Paxson's plan was to trade vets not to trade his young players. Whether or not it works is debatable, but clearly he did not want to part with young guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Deng would have had to go to get Gasol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Deng would of had to go LAST YEAR. Thats the whole point, and why its so puzzling. This year Memphis wanted a package of Thomas/Noah, Duhon, Nocioni.... Paxson refused to do it b/c it would of put us in luxury tax situation with Brian Cardinal in the deal. Pax/Reinsdorf refused to go into the luxury tax arena... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 To CHI: Larry Hughes Drew Gooden Cedric Simmons Shannon Brown To CLE: Ben Wallace Joe Smith Wally Szcerbiak Delonte West Future 2nd rounder from CHI (2009) To SEA: Ira Newble Adrian Griffin Donyell Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 21, 2008 -> 03:10 PM) I think Hughes has big money and 2 years left after this one, and Gooden has 1 more year after this one. While I like Ben Wallace being gone, I don't see how this move helps the team win, other than open up PT for Thomas and Noah. Of course sitting Wallace down would have accomplished that. I think Smith is better than Gooden, and Hughes doesn't do much for me. Why do you think Smith is better than Gooden? Smith is 32 while Gooden is 26. Gooden is bigger and a much better rebounder. Hughes doesn't do much for me either (although he clearly didn't fit in on CLE. He's not a PG), but he'll be more productive than Wallace would be over the next 2.5 seasons. It also allows us to not have to overpay for Gordon not to mention since Gordon is a restricted free agent, we can get something for him through a sign and trade. We got rid of 2 guys in Wallace and Smith that are aging and likely to see drops in their production in the coming years for 2 guys under 30 who are likely to be better next season. We still need to make other moves, but I like what was done in the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 That poor Donyell Marshall.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Bulls get Shannon Brown too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Feb 21, 2008 -> 04:42 PM) Bulls get Shannon Brown too? According to this, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Jimbo will be happy, Hinrich and Gooden, some one call Nick Collison were getting the gang together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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