Healthcare

[mr_genius]

But we can't have decent health care for all Americans

 

we also need free house care, free car care, and free 54' HD tv care.don't leave out that stuff.

 

But seriously, health care costs need to be lower. Too bad a big government will likely make it more expensive.

Edited February 21, 2008 by mr_genius

[santo=dorf]

we also need free house care, free car care, and free 54' HD tv care.don't leave out that stuff.

 

But seriously, health care costs need to be lower. Too bad a big government will likely make it more expensive.

I need someone from the government to cook my meals. They know what's best for me to eat. I also need someone from the government to pick out my clothes to wear.

[mreye]

I need someone from government to bend me over and shove it up my...oh wait, they already do that.

[southsider2k5]

I need someone from government to bend me over and shove it up my...oh wait, they already do that.

 

Hey what you do in your private life is entirely up to you!

[Texsox]

We need $12,000 per year health insurance premiums so Alpha can really grow his business. We need a health care system where a 50 year old man can work 32 years, get layed off and lose half his saving when he is injured (my father-in-law). But hey he deserved it for working twenty years for the same company and not being a Malaysian who took his job. The large companies that could afford to insure their employees are moving jobs overseas. When Americans can work at a small company and not worry about their children coughing in the middle of the night, we start to fix our economy.

[Reddy]

I need someone from government to bend me over and shove it up my...oh wait, they already do that.

i really think people just b*tch about the government too much...

 

but shooting down satellite = cool.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Reddy

[lostfan]

And you can have decent healthcare, just buy it.

Yes because that's the reason so many people don't have healthcare, they just don't want to pay for it. Those damn people, ruining everything with their sense of entitlement.

Edited February 24, 2008 by lostfan

[Texsox]

And you can have decent healthcare, just buy it.

 

Easier said then done. Even an inexpensive family policy will set you back $800 per month. That's about $5 per hour for someone working a 40 hour job. Take Alpha's business for example. I am certain he is paying his people as well as he can. IIRC most are making less than $10 per hour. Makes it tough for either Alpha or his employee to afford insurance. I faced the same problem with my business. I managed to put together a volume discount with a clinic so each employee had access to a Doctor for their family. But anything requiring hospitalization would have crushed them.

 

And his business is the backbone of our economy. He's not going to outsource to China or Mexico, he's going to keep employing people in his neighborhood. I am certain he would love to build a team that stays together and grows his business. Without solving this health care issue, he's going to have a revolving door of employees who need those benefits. His better employees will leave after he has invested in their training. When one of his employees finds themselves in the emergency room, their bill we be spread over all of ours.

 

I'm not saying necessarily that it has to be the government providing the solution, but we're heading into a major problem in this country and I see this as an opportunity to support small business and help them grow.

[EvilMonkey]

Easier said then done. Even an inexpensive family policy will set you back $800 per month. That's about $5 per hour for someone working a 40 hour job. Take Alpha's business for example. I am certain he is paying his people as well as he can. IIRC most are making less than $10 per hour. Makes it tough for either Alpha or his employee to afford insurance. I faced the same problem with my business. I managed to put together a volume discount with a clinic so each employee had access to a Doctor for their family. But anything requiring hospitalization would have crushed them.

 

And his business is the backbone of our economy. He's not going to outsource to China or Mexico, he's going to keep employing people in his neighborhood. I am certain he would love to build a team that stays together and grows his business. Without solving this health care issue, he's going to have a revolving door of employees who need those benefits. His better employees will leave after he has invested in their training. When one of his employees finds themselves in the emergency room, their bill we be spread over all of ours.

 

I'm not saying necessarily that it has to be the government providing the solution, but we're heading into a major problem in this country and I see this as an opportunity to support small business and help them grow.

1 @ $18.50/hour

1 @ $14.50/hour

1 @ 12.50/hour

 

The middle one often complains that it is hard for her to buy insurance, but I have no sympathy. She takes at least 2 vacations per year that are not cheap. I mean a week long cruise to the Mediteranian, fly to an all-inclusinve resort in Mexico for a week, went to Hawaaii last year and so on. And her husband competes in triathelons all around the country, so they are always going somewhere for a weekend so he can compete.

 

For about half of your $800, you can get a major medical policy to cover the big stuff. I had on of those for a salesman I had a year or two ago. Take whatever you have left and open a medical savings account. Take advantage of those 'quick care' places in Walgreens and Walmart fir the little stuff. There are ways to make it work. There are always exceptions, but alot of it are choices you can make.

 

Oh, and other than the salesguy i just hired and fired 2 months ago, my 3 peeps have all been with me for at least 6.5 years, the $18.50 guy for almost 15. I try to keep the revolving door shut as much as possible.

[Texsox]

$28,000 per year. 20% or more of your take home pay for health insurance. Plus the poor are far more likely to have poor diets, poor primary health care, etc. Perhaps we learned a lesson from the Influenza outbreak that when massive amounts of poor people are sick, trhe wealthy people die also.

 

Sorry I got the salaries wrong.

 

It still doesn't address the people who are making $7 or $8 per hour. We know that raising salaries would be a disaster for business, it comes up everytime the DEMs start talking about raising minimum wage. So we'd have those people spending 50% or more of their income on medical insurance. No problem there.

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

$28,000 per year. 20% or more of your take home pay for health insurance. Plus the poor are far more likely to have poor diets, poor primary health care, etc. Perhaps we learned a lesson from the Influenza outbreak that when massive amounts of poor people are sick, trhe wealthy people die also.

 

Sorry I got the salaries wrong.

 

It still doesn't address the people who are making $7 or $8 per hour. We know that raising salaries would be a disaster for business, it comes up everytime the DEMs start talking about raising minimum wage. So we'd have those people spending 50% or more of their income on medical insurance. No problem there.

TEx, how many minimum wage people you know that smoke? Not a cheap habit. And drink? Eat fast food? All not cheap. I do alot of work for a local food bank. When I am there delivering stuff, I see some of the people who are there picking up food for free. Some have nice cars. And I mean NICE cars. Some have huge rings on their fingers. And I laugh at the ones sporting those huge-ass painted nails that are like 3" long or something. Those are not cheap to get, and how the hell do you do ANYTHING with claws like that? Choices. I also never said there wasn't a problem. My wife works for an insurance comapny and I still think it is expensive. Government run single payer isn't the way to fix it. We have had threads about this before. You need to do many things to fix it. Tort reform to keep malpractice insurancee in line, weed out bad doctors to help the malpractice stuff and find a way to entice drug companies to maybe CURE something in stead of maintain among others. People also need to make better choices. Stop eating crap food, excercise if you can, stop smoking or cut down on bad habits and stop having kids you can't afford (it's not like you can return them). It is not easy, as we can all see from our Biggest Loser thread. But as I try to tell my kids, choices you make now will effect you for the rest of your lives. Be a dumbass in school because you think it is 'cool' can screw with you forever in the form of lower paying jobs and less opportunities in life.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Hey what you do in your private life is entirely up to you!

 

 

no, I need the government to decide what to do then, too.

[Reddy]

no, I need the government to decide what to do then, too.

 

now you are officially cornered. dont mean this to be a thread hijack (i seem to be getting good at these...) but since this argument really isn't about health care but about the power of the government i'm gonna say it anyway.

 

so you're saying the government has no right to dictate what we do with our own personal lives?

[kapkomet]

now you are officially cornered. dont mean this to be a thread hijack (i seem to be getting good at these...) but since this argument really isn't about health care but about the power of the government i'm gonna say it anyway.

 

so you're saying the government has no right to dictate what we do with our own personal lives?

Yep. Except when it harms others in a malicious way... which is what laws are for, generally.

[Reddy]

Yep. Except when it harms others in a malicious way... which is what laws are for, generally.

 

so what would fall into that category of HARMING others in a MALICIOUS way?

[kapkomet]

so what would fall into that category of HARMING others in a MALICIOUS way?

I guess being overweight and costing the system millions of dollars is "harming others in a malicious way".

 

[Texsox]

TEx, how many minimum wage people you know that smoke? Not a cheap habit. And drink? Eat fast food? All not cheap. I do alot of work for a local food bank. When I am there delivering stuff, I see some of the people who are there picking up food for free. Some have nice cars. And I mean NICE cars. Some have huge rings on their fingers. And I laugh at the ones sporting those huge-ass painted nails that are like 3" long or something. Those are not cheap to get, and how the hell do you do ANYTHING with claws like that? Choices. I also never said there wasn't a problem. My wife works for an insurance comapny and I still think it is expensive. Government run single payer isn't the way to fix it. We have had threads about this before. You need to do many things to fix it. Tort reform to keep malpractice insurancee in line, weed out bad doctors to help the malpractice stuff and find a way to entice drug companies to maybe CURE something in stead of maintain among others. People also need to make better choices. Stop eating crap food, excercise if you can, stop smoking or cut down on bad habits and stop having kids you can't afford (it's not like you can return them). It is not easy, as we can all see from our Biggest Loser thread. But as I try to tell my kids, choices you make now will effect you for the rest of your lives. Be a dumbass in school because you think it is 'cool' can screw with you forever in the form of lower paying jobs and less opportunities in life.

 

Yep, these people live large on $15,000 per year! GMAB.

 

Yep and the people I know are working two and three jobs. When one of my Scouts passed away last year his medical bills came to over $150,000. The parents were both working full time and he took side jobs every weekend. No time for their kids, they were always working. They will continue to work the rest of their lives to cover those bills. No chance to buy a home. Probably will never own a car, or at least not for a long time.

 

You see people in the stores, I know them. I'm in their homes and they in mine.

 

But fine, find your examples and then pretend that is the majority.

[Texsox]

Instead of talking about people you "see", let's look at the numbers,

 

Here, the average salary is less than $7 per hour. This could be someone just off public aid. Medium skill worker. They will not qualify for Medicade or Food assistance.

 

$14,000 annual salary. After taxes like Social Security, etc. they will clear about

$12,000 then a decent rent on a one bedroom here will set them back about $6,000 per year leaving

$6,000 then electric, water, heating, telephone will set them back at least $2,500 per year leaving

$3,500 then let's eat some food, buy some cleaning supplies, another $40 per week or $2,000 leaving

$1,500 now let's fill up the tank on the car once a week, $30 x 52 week or $1,600

oops I guess this is where they buy the nice car, clothes, get their nails done, and pay for health care.

 

This is the challenge that people face who want to stop having the government pay for everything. This is the challenge that people have who are trying to do the right thing. They don't magically jump to $25,000 jobs.

[santo=dorf]

so you're saying the government has no right to dictate what we do with our own personal lives?

Define "freedom" and tell me why it was so important to our founding fathers.

[StrangeSox]

so you're saying the government has no right to dictate what we do with our own personal lives?

 

Bingo.

[EvilMonkey]

But fine, find your examples and then pretend that is the majority.

Let's see. Please reread my post, you will find the words

some

some

Some

I also never said there wasn't a problem

It is not easy,

Do I imply anywhere in there that it is a majority? Tex, walk into the school distict office where my mother works and i will show you 75% of the kids who are getting a free lunch who don't qualify, but get it anyway (because the rules of the free lunch program prohibit the schools from verifying the information the parents put down). I'll show you 50 parents who supposedly do not work, who arrive to pick up their kids in cars less than 2 years old. And if we go to your area I am sure you can show me all the examples you listed as well. I don't deny that people can get creamed with medical bills. But you seem to deny that there are actually people who COULD make the choice to get insurance, who CHOOSE NOT TO, and then b**** about the results of their inaction. They are both out there

[Cknolls]

Instead of talking about people you "see", let's look at the numbers,

 

Here, the average salary is less than $7 per hour. This could be someone just off public aid. Medium skill worker. They will not qualify for Medicade or Food assistance.

 

$14,000 annual salary. After taxes like Social Security, etc. they will clear about

$12,000 then a decent rent on a one bedroom here will set them back about $6,000 per year leaving

$6,000 then electric, water, heating, telephone will set them back at least $2,500 per year leaving

$3,500 then let's eat some food, buy some cleaning supplies, another $40 per week or $2,000 leaving

$1,500 now let's fill up the tank on the car once a week, $30 x 52 week or $1,600

oops I guess this is where they buy the nice car, clothes, get their nails done, and pay for health care.

 

This is the challenge that people face who want to stop having the government pay for everything. This is the challenge that people have who are trying to do the right thing. They don't magically jump to $25,000 jobs.

 

 

You forgot to mention their income tax refund. How big would that be? Anyone making the salary you quoted would not pay ANY taxes.

[Mplssoxfan]

You forgot to mention their income tax refund. How big would that be? Anyone making the salary you quoted would not pay ANY taxes.

I think he included that fact in his analysis, except for any tax credits they would be getting. They wouldn't pay any income tax, but they'd sure be paying FICA tax.

 

If someone is working for $7 an hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, after FICA and Medicare taxes are taken out and before any credits like EITC (which, for a single person, would be zero), gross income would be $13,134.16, which is $1000 higher that Tex stated.

[sox4lifeinPA]

you forgot DirectTV, AOL services, and Blockbuster/Netflix online rentals....

 

Those are the three biggest offenders I see when looking at overdrafted accounts. I have little pity on poor people.

[mr_genius]

you forgot DirectTV, AOL services, and Blockbuster/Netflix online rentals....

 

Those are the three biggest offenders I see when looking at overdrafted accounts. I have little pity on poor people.

 

NBC news just did another doom and gloom economy report. Interviewed some lady who was 'feeling the pinch'. She said maybe she should cut back on the $850 a month she spends on groceries.

 

yea, that would be a good start.