Rowand44 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 25, 2008 -> 12:44 PM) I think they are still very underrated, even considering they were a game away from going to the World Series last year. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 The Cubs will contend, but it will be another year of heartbreak and frustration on the north side. They'll either choke it up to the Brewers, DBacks or Mets ... at some point. No World Series in Wrigley this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEdWalsh Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 25, 2008 -> 02:55 PM) No World Series in Wrigley this year. OhhhhNoooooooo!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) Hill, Lieber, Dempster Horrible back of the rotation. Maybe one of the worst around. Lieber and Dempster have the ability to put up 5+ERA's in the NL, Hill should flirt with 4 again. No closer, no middle relief, question mark set up guy. Edited February 26, 2008 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Didn't it seem to anyone else like last year was one of those years where every major break seemed to go the Cubs's way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 26, 2008 -> 04:09 PM) No closer Marmol. Guy looks pretty sharp actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I have my doubts if the Cubs will even make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 QUOTE(Vance Law @ Feb 27, 2008 -> 12:02 AM) Marmol. Guy looks pretty sharp actually. Same could be said for Cotts and Politte after 2005. We all know how that turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Feb 28, 2008 -> 12:30 PM) Same could be said for Cotts and Politte after 2005. We all know how that turned out. Those two guys combined have no where near the talent of Marmol.How could you even compare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 (edited) 1. Brewers 2. Reds 3. Cubs 4. Cardinals 5. Astros 6. Pirates That is your final 2008 NL Central standings, much to fathom's dismay. Rich Hill is a guy who had a career year in his late 20's, not a pitcher coming into his prime, Marquis sucks, Dempster never could start, and Lilly will come back to earth. Combine that with no CF, a HORRIBLE defensive OF, and a bullpen by commitee (as Ed Farmer says, bullpen by commitee means your bullpen sucks), and they are in deep doo doo. Plus, Milwaukee will be better and Cincy has just so much young talent, even Dusty can run that to 2nd in baseball's worst division. Edited March 1, 2008 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 QUOTE(shipps @ Feb 28, 2008 -> 01:14 PM) Those two guys combined have no where near the talent of Marmol.How could you even compare? the comparison was from their 2005 years. Cotts 69 games, 60.3 innings, 38 hits, 1.95 ERA, 58 strikeouts, 1 homerun, 29 BB Politte 68 games, 67.3 innings, 42 hits, 2.00 ERA, 57 strikeouts, 7 homeruns, 21 BB Marmol 2007 59 games, 69.3 innings, 41 hits, 1.43 ERA, 96 strikeouts, 3 homeruns, 35 BB pretty similar except for strikeouts And the point of the comparison is not talent, rather that bullpen pitchers are always iffy, and from one season to another they can go from lockdown to complete and utter crap with no gray area in between. I dont think this is going to happen to Marmol because I think he is going to be pretty good if he can keep his arm in one piece, but IIRC Cliff Politte went from a flame throwing pitcher who could reach the high 90's(2004) to someone who could barely reach 90(2006) in a 2 year span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 (edited) How many saves did marmol have last year? (rhetorical question) My confidence in him is shaky at best, because setting up isn't the same mental game. Even if he panned out, he was the setup guy last year, who is going to fill that void? Their BP still sucks. Edited March 1, 2008 by max power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I predict another 100 years of futility. In all seriousness the Cubs are in the worst division in baseball. The Cards are in in a re-tooling plan, the Reds and Pirates will suck again, the Astros might be a suprise the added K. Matsui and M. Tejada for some more offensive power to help Berkman and C. Lee. And the Brewers are still very young and im just not sold on Gagne being their closer. On paper the Cubs have the best team in the NL central. But we've seen them choke before and i wouldnt be surprised if it happened once again. Lets not forget that no Chicago baseball team has went to the playoffs in back-to-back seasons since the early 1900's. I wish the Sox were in the NL central.. what a pathetic division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Holy s*** someone gave carlos marmol an MVP vote last year? hahahahaha, seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 1, 2008 -> 05:48 AM) 1. Brewers 2. Reds 3. Cubs 4. Cardinals 5. Astros 6. Pirates That is your final 2008 NL Central standings, much to fathom's dismay. Rich Hill is a guy who had a career year in his late 20's, not a pitcher coming into his prime, Marquis sucks, Dempster never could start, and Lilly will come back to earth. Combine that with no CF, a HORRIBLE defensive OF, and a bullpen by commitee (as Ed Farmer says, bullpen by commitee means your bullpen sucks), and they are in deep doo doo. Plus, Milwaukee will be better and Cincy has just so much young talent, even Dusty can run that to 2nd in baseball's worst division. I believe CWS already made that joke. FWIW, it sounds as if Angelos agreed to let Roberts be traded, so the Cubs are going to add him early next week. I saw K. Wood pitch a little today, and he looked awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Mar 1, 2008 -> 07:28 AM) Cliff Politte went from a flame throwing pitcher who could reach the high 90's(2004) to someone who could barely reach 90(2006) in a 2 year span. to Politte's credit (...? no idea what to call it), it is hard to throw 98 with a shoulder that's torn to hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 In Pollitte's defense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 3, 2008 -> 01:06 AM) to Politte's credit (...? no idea what to call it), it is hard to throw 98 with a shoulder that's torn to hell That was part of my point towards Marmol. If he can stay healthy(keep his arm in one piece) then he should be pretty good, Politte couldnt do that and went from a hard thrower to out of the league in 2 years. The comparison was drawn between Marmol 07 and Cotts/Politte 05, and the question was asked "how could you even compare?", when in reality they were pretty close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEdWalsh Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 1, 2008 -> 07:27 PM) I believe CWS already made that joke. FWIW, it sounds as if Angelos agreed to let Roberts be traded, so the Cubs are going to add him early next week. I saw K. Wood pitch a little today, and he looked awful. Has there been any speculation on what the Flubs would give up? You don't get a player like Roberts for garbage. Although, if I recall they got Aramis Ramírez for next to nothing. :fthecubs Edited March 3, 2008 by BigEdWalsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) Their pitching is overrated. Zambrano does have a ton of ability, but he's coming off a terrible year (well, by his standards, though a 3.95 ERA and WHIP above 1.30 isn't exactly front-line starter material in that league) and is kind of erratic. Even in a career year Lilly had a 3.83 ERA in the NL, and Rich Hill was a tad worse. If all three of those guys pitch to the peak of their abilities they have a very nice staff, but what are the odds of that happening? Plus those three really have to carry the rotation, the group of guys competing for the last two spots is far from impressive. You can say the same thing about the pen. Marmol, Wood, and Howry all have good stuff, but can they all produce? If not, they have no depth behind them. Sure, on paper they're the favorites to win that division, but I see them maxing out somewhere in the mid-80's for wins, which is probably just enough to go to the playoffs and lose to a stronger team in the first round. Edited March 3, 2008 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 QUOTE(BigEdWalsh @ Mar 3, 2008 -> 11:48 AM) Has there been any speculation on what the Flubs would give up? You don't get a player like Roberts for garbage. Although, if I recall they got Aramis Ramírez for next to nothing. :fthecubs The Cubs would also take Jay Payton from the Orioles. They'd give up Marshall, Gallagher, Cedeno, and Murton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 3, 2008 -> 02:58 PM) The Cubs would also take Jay Payton from the Orioles. They'd give up Marshall, Gallagher, Cedeno, and Murton. So, garbage, prospect, garbage, garbage. It doesnt make sense for the O's. Why would they take on a bunch of players that cant make the team for the cubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 3, 2008 -> 06:57 PM) Why would they take on a bunch of players that cant make the team for the cubs? Marshall - "lefty rotation prospect" who doesn't make any money Gallagher - "bullpen depth" who doesn't make any money Cedeno - "change of scenery" who doesn't make any money Murton - "untapped potential" who doesn't make any money The second part of each description is the real reason, the first part is how they'll sell it to their fans. (They still have fans, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 QUOTE(The Critic @ Mar 3, 2008 -> 05:19 PM) Marshall - "lefty rotation prospect" who doesn't make any money Gallagher - "bullpen depth" who doesn't make any money Cedeno - "change of scenery" who doesn't make any money Murton - "untapped potential" who doesn't make any money The second part of each description is the real reason, the first part is how they'll sell it to their fans. (They still have fans, right?) With the mess that the Orioles have been over the past decade or so, sucking with players who don't make a lot of money is still a step above sucking with a few players making a good amount of money. At least maybe you're building something around guys like Markakis if you're sucking with guys who don't make much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) Back to the subject of the Cubs: Oh. My. God. The Cubs have had a variety of injuries this spring. So far, infielder Mark DeRosa was hospitalized with an irregular heartbeat, pitcher Jose Ascanio had a bruised face after getting punched in a robbery attempt, and outfielder Felix Pie missed a couple of days early because of a twisted testicle. Third baseman Aramis Ramirez remains sidelined with a sore right shoulder. Edited March 4, 2008 by kyyle23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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