General Iraq War Thread

[Balta1701]

An AP reporter that the U.S. has detained in Iraq for nearly 2 years without charges has been ordered freed by an Iraqi court and had the charges against him dismissed by them. No word on whether the U.S. will actually abide by the ruling.

[BigSqwert]

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere but I'd say this is a pretty solid effective ad...

 

Edited April 10, 2008 by BigSqwert

[HuskyCaucasian]

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere but I'd say this is a pretty solid effective ad...

 

Hope that hits the air soon. Maybe, i dunno... around August

[HuskyCaucasian]

Iraqi Prime Minister - American Troops Can Start to Leave

 

A Prime Minister adviser, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to disclose the confidential details, said al-Maliki told Bush that Iraqi security forces are capable of carrying out their duties and U.S. troops should be pulled out as the situation permits.

Edited April 11, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[BearSox]

It is a scary thought to completely leave Iraq, leading it wide open to Iran and Al Quieda(sp?) to take power there. If they do, gas prices would seem cheap as to what they would then eventually be, if the wrong people get their hands on that oil.

[Balta1701]

It is a scary thought to completely leave Iraq, leading it wide open to Iran and Al Quieda(sp?) to take power there. If they do, gas prices would seem cheap as to what they would then eventually be, if the wrong people get their hands on that oil.

So, Iran basically gets to decide whether or not to declare cease fires in the war there, and yet we're worried about them "Taking over"?

[lostfan]

Iran is pretty much going to have its say on its neighbor whether it's on our terms or not. Hell, they are pretty much already backing the military of the government that's supposed to be our ally already. It's just flat-out impossible to ignore the Iranians when it comes to Iraq, there's no way around it and it's better diplomacy than another war. The only potential saving grace there is that the Persians and Babylonians have pretty much never gotten along for the past, oh, 3000 years or so.

Edited April 11, 2008 by lostfan

[BearSox]

I have no problem with people thinking we should end the war in Iraq, etc, and gradually make our way back home... But, IMO, it would be utter stupidity to completely withdraw all troops within 6 months or whatever Hillary wants. Obama hasn't really said what he would do yet though, but it would be something in the lines of withdraw I imagine.

 

Just packing up and leaving right away will provide us with an even worse situation then we have right now.

 

Kinda OT here, but Americans need to give their support to the troops, and stop making/seeing anti-american War movies... I would love to see just one patriotic film made for our troops. All we have out there is garbage to try and degrade our troops.

[StrangeSox]

Kinda OT here, but Americans need to give their support to the troops, and stop making/seeing anti-american War movies... I would love to see just one patriotic film made for our troops. All we have out there is garbage to try and degrade our troops.

 

What films would those be?

[lostfan]

What films would those be?

Yeah I second this question. Got movies like Blackhawk Down, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, and then on TV we get shows like Over There (as fake and overdramatized as it is) and Baghdad ER that make our troops look like saints and heroes. I can't think of one anti-American movie or TV show, the idiots in Berkeley don't make movies.

[lostfan]

I have no problem with people thinking we should end the war in Iraq, etc, and gradually make our way back home... But, IMO, it would be utter stupidity to completely withdraw all troops within 6 months or whatever Hillary wants. Obama hasn't really said what he would do yet though, but it would be something in the lines of withdraw I imagine.

I agree in principle, but I really wonder if Hillary is going to do that. Remember, she lies, a LOT, and she desperately wants to get elected. But who knows, it's hard to see if she really understands. Obama's a little more open to doing things different, he talks a lot about withdrawal but he talks about the need to stay on AQ too and he says if there are drastic changes he reserves the right as commander in chief to change his plans. McCain wants to be a pure extension of the last 5 years, for better or worse.

[BigSqwert]

Kinda OT here, but Americans need to give their support to the troops, and stop making/seeing anti-american War movies... I would love to see just one patriotic film made for our troops. All we have out there is garbage to try and degrade our troops.

So you think making more pro-American war movies would help end this war? I honestly don't get where you're coming from here.

[BearSox]

So you think making more pro-American war movies would help end this war? I honestly don't get where you're coming from here.

did I ever say help end the war? No, I didn't. But patriotic, pro-American movies can give the people something to watch and make them feel proud of their country over. Look back at the 40's and 50's, there are probably hundreds of patriotic war movies. Now, you'd be lucky to find one.

 

It is just something that can help boost moral, and perhaps just bring people together, realizing who the true heroes of this country are.

Edited April 12, 2008 by BearSox

[Balta1701]

did I ever say help end the war? No, I didn't. But patriotic, pro-American movies can give the people something to watch and make them feel proud of their country over. Look back at the 40's and 50's, there are probably hundreds of patriotic war movies. Now, you'd be lucky to find one.

Couple points.

 

First...um, there might be a reason why there's quite a few "Patriotic" movies being made in the 1940's.

 

Second...if you want movies to be made that portray a war in a positive light, we should stop getting involved in these disastrous occupations we keep doing.

[kapkomet]

Couple points.

 

First...um, there might be a reason why there's quite a few "Patriotic" movies being made in the 1940's.

 

Second...if you want movies to be made that portray a war in a positive light, we should stop getting involved in these disastrous occupations we keep doing.

Third, there is no such thing as a conventional war anymore.

 

[Balta1701]

Third, there is no such thing as a conventional war anymore.

The first 2-3 weeks of the Iraq debacle don't count? GW1 certainly counts in my book, that's about as conventional as you can get.

[lostfan]

Second...if you want movies to be made that portray a war in a positive light, we should stop getting involved in these disastrous occupations we keep doing.

Afghanistan is/was perfectly ok by me. Until we blew it and now we can't keep enough troops there.

[kapkomet]

The first 2-3 weeks of the Iraq debacle don't count? GW1 certainly counts in my book, that's about as conventional as you can get.

Well, does Afghanistan now qualify as an occupation? My bet is you would say (albeit different from Iraq) yes.

 

There's conventional warfare for a short period of time, but the "debacles" that will always follow these conventional wars will likely never find the light of day ever again.

 

[BigSqwert]

It is just something that can help boost moral, and perhaps just bring people together, realizing who the true heroes of this country are.

Boost who's moral? Bring who together?

[NorthSideSox72]

did I ever say help end the war? No, I didn't. But patriotic, pro-American movies can give the people something to watch and make them feel proud of their country over. Look back at the 40's and 50's, there are probably hundreds of patriotic war movies. Now, you'd be lucky to find one.

 

It is just something that can help boost moral, and perhaps just bring people together, realizing who the true heroes of this country are.

Then make one. Movies are made to sell tickets and DVD's, for the most part (with a few exceptions). Its a business. So if no one is making them, chances are, its because no one wants to see them. Which I doubt is because no one appreciates the troops. Its that most people won't go for that kind of movie right now, for a complex array of reasons.

 

Or are you suggesting the government should somehow manipulate the free market of the media?

 

[BearSox]

Then make one. Movies are made to sell tickets and DVD's, for the most part (with a few exceptions). Its a business. So if no one is making them, chances are, its because no one wants to see them. Which I doubt is because no one appreciates the troops. Its that most people won't go for that kind of movie right now, for a complex array of reasons.

 

Or are you suggesting the government should somehow manipulate the free market of the media?

well, judging by the ticket sales of some movies like redacted and that one that just came out, they bombed, which is good.

 

And no, I don't want the gov't to manipulate the media... I'd just like to see a good pro America war movie, something that actually shows the good that the troops have done.

[NorthSideSox72]

well, judging by the ticket sales of some movies like redacted and that one that just came out, they bombed, which is good.

 

And no, I don't want the gov't to manipulate the media... I'd just like to see a good pro America war movie, something that actually shows the good that the troops have done.

You seem to be looking for something that isn't going to be taken seriously by anyone. I mean, most movies about American wars have reflected pretty well on the troops in general. But to make a feel-good movie about war is kind of an impossible task in the modern age. There is no longer that suspension of disbelief. People know how awful war is. If you gave them a movie that was just hero-worship of the soldiers, without the saddening impact of war, it would just be an ad for the Marines.

 

[EvilMonkey]

You seem to be looking for something that isn't going to be taken seriously by anyone. I mean, most movies about American wars have reflected pretty well on the troops in general. But to make a feel-good movie about war is kind of an impossible task in the modern age. There is no longer that suspension of disbelief. People know how awful war is. If you gave them a movie that was just hero-worship of the soldiers, without the saddening impact of war, it would just be an ad for the Marines.

Nice way to change the subject. First, it is 'It's a business, they make movies to make money'. Then when it is ponted out that the last 6 or 7 have lost vast sums, not it's different. The studios may have thought those would make money, but after the first 4 or 5 bombed, you think they would stop for a bit. Not so much, it seems. The only one that did any good was the one NOT billed as some anti-was movie (I forgot the name, with Foxx and Gardner). It did ok, but nowhere near what they had hoped. You are right, people know how horrible war is. They also don't need Hollywood shoving the 'America is Evil' mantra down our throats.

 

Were movies like 'The Dirty Dozen' or 'The Guns af Navarone' just thinly veiled recruitment movies? How about 'Bridge over the River Kwai'? Even a movie like MASH can show the horrors of war while still showing something positive about the US soldiers.

[NorthSideSox72]

Nice way to change the subject. First, it is 'It's a business, they make movies to make money'. Then when it is ponted out that the last 6 or 7 have lost vast sums, not it's different. The studios may have thought those would make money, but after the first 4 or 5 bombed, you think they would stop for a bit. Not so much, it seems. The only one that did any good was the one NOT billed as some anti-was movie (I forgot the name, with Foxx and Gardner). It did ok, but nowhere near what they had hoped. You are right, people know how horrible war is. They also don't need Hollywood shoving the 'America is Evil' mantra down our throats.

 

Were movies like 'The Dirty Dozen' or 'The Guns af Navarone' just thinly veiled recruitment movies? How about 'Bridge over the River Kwai'? Even a movie like MASH can show the horrors of war while still showing something positive about the US soldiers.

Perhaps I should have also mentioned that American audiences are a little more aware of the realities of war and the world generally then they were. A movie like The Dirty Dozen is just a lot less believable to them.

 

But you also keep harping on this supposed America is Evil thing, and saying that they don't show anything positive about US soldiers. To me, looking at war movies made in the last few years, I think they show an absolute ton of respect for US soldiers. In fact, more so than the movies you'd mention, I suggest. The subject of the ire of these movies isn't American soldiers - its war itself. And I think you'll find most of American society is damn tired of war, so this should not be a big surprise.

 

[Balta1701]

This WaPo piece touches on one of those trends worth noting...the U.S. really has done very little to address the refugee situation/crisis in Iraq, where something like 3+ million people have been forced from their former homes. In that vacuum, the biggest group that has stepped in to take care of people has been the Al Mahdi Army, which has built good will with those people by providing them with homes, sometimes money, and so on, sometimes in exchange for service.

 

I think this is noteworthy because it was exactly this sort of situation which helped Hamas gain a big electoral victory in the Gaza strip...the government wasn't really taking care of the people, that group was, and they wound up showing up strongly in elections.