1 in 100 US Adults behind bars

[EvilMonkey]

Why not make birth control more accessible instead?

You mean its not? Condoms in schools, birthcontrol pills at clinics where parents don't even have to approve. Where else do you want them? Vending machines in the school cafateria?

[sox4lifeinPA]

You mean its not? Condoms in schools, birthcontrol pills at clinics where parents don't even have to approve. Where else do you want them? Vending machines in the school cafateria?

 

how do you account for the lack of use of this stuff then? in other words, why are there so many teens getting pregnant?

 

these pregnancies only seem to perpetuate the cycle.

[EvilMonkey]

how do you account for the lack of use of this stuff then? in other words, why are there so many teens getting pregnant?

 

these pregnancies only seem to perpetuate the cycle.

Stupidity, parents who always tell them they are 'special', or the direct opposite that they are 'worthless', how about the lack of shame for being an unwed mother? It used to be a bad thing, not people actually seek it out!

[santo=dorf]

Why not make birth control more accessible instead?

Sure. Birth control pills for women would be plan A.

My "John Connor" plan could be the fall out plan.

[southsider2k5]

You mean its not? Condoms in schools, birthcontrol pills at clinics where parents don't even have to approve. Where else do you want them? Vending machines in the school cafateria?

 

Yet they have to have written permission from their parents to take a stinking aspirin in school...

[Soxy]

Stupidity, parents who always tell them they are 'special', or the direct opposite that they are 'worthless', how about the lack of shame for being an unwed mother? It used to be a bad thing, not people actually seek it out!

I would point out how sexist this is. But, I just don't care anymore.

[EvilMonkey]

I would point out how sexist this is. But, I just don't care anymore.

Go ahead and point it out. Sure, it sounds sexist. However there DID used to be a stigma about being a single parent. And at the risk of sounding like George the first's VP, there are way too many instances of single parenthood being glorified and sought after. There are liberals who are hell-bent on removing smoking from all movies because they think that it influences people into making a bad choice. but yet they turn around and show gratuitous violence, sex and other not quite so good things for kids, and then claim that it DOESN'T influence kids? Which is it? They can't just influence on the good and not the bad. You want to keep people out of jails? Reduce single parent households. Find a way to get parents actually involved in their kids education. For minorities, teach them that being smart isn't 'acting white'. Either legalize and regulate the hell out of drugs, or actually commit to stopping them. Stop praising single mothers who are so by choice. And the obvious, stop imprisoning people for non-violent things like small time drug use.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Go ahead and point it out. Sure, it sounds sexist. However there DID used to be a stigma about being a single parent. And at the risk of sounding like George the first's VP, there are way too many instances of single parenthood being glorified and sought after.

 

Stop praising single mothers who are so by choice.

Who are all these single mothers "by choice?" Why is it their fault? Why is it that you heap none of the blame heaped on the blame on absentee fathers? It's not exactly like America is crawling with young men looking to get married after knockin up a girl.

 

I don't know a single single-mother who would reached that status entirely "by choice." And I know more than a handful...

 

If you're going to blame the wrongs of our prison system on single mother, at least get the cause of single mothers correct.

[knightni]

Perhaps it is the increased divorce rate and nonchalantness in American society towards casual sex. It is less of a stigma than it used to be.

 

Or perhaps some modern medicines/meat hormones can heighten young children's mindsets and base tendencies towards more violence.

 

/takes off foil hat

[Jenksismyhero]

Who are all these single mothers "by choice?" Why is it their fault? Why is it that you heap none of the blame heaped on the blame on absentee fathers? It's not exactly like America is crawling with young men looking to get married after knockin up a girl.

 

I don't know a single single-mother who would reached that status entirely "by choice." And I know more than a handful...

 

If you're going to blame the wrongs of our prison system on single mother, at least get the cause of single mothers correct.

 

While I agree that s***head fathers also need to be of some blame, lets be realistic. We all know that a HUGE drain on the social service costs in this country go to single mothers of MULTIPLE children with MULTIPLE fathers. In a crude and probably sexist way to put it: you shouldn't blame a passenger for wrecking the boat, blame the captain.

 

I think anything after that is a condition of the environment, i.e. if you grow up as a kid stuck in the system, the odds are way way way way way against you to get out. I think throwing money at the educational system is also a waste. You can put a one billion dollar high school in the middle of the poorest, most uneducated spot in the country and it won't do a damn thing (something liberals, in my view, seem to think will work). Instead, I think money should be thrown at communities. Make people actually care about where they live and they might grow up/spend their lives trying to keep it that way.

 

Step one, IMO, would be to remove the crutch we've given a lot of the poor in this country: free money and housing. Obviously we should have these services, but instead of the lifetime system we got, make it temporary, like it was intended to be. How are we supposed to persuade people to get educated and make something of their lives if they don't have to do anything for it. Yeah yeah, I know, they don't get much (trust me I've toured Cabrini Green and studied the homeless/public housing situation in and around Chicago). But they still don't have to work or even attempt to work for what little they do get. Hell, these days, especially in the transformed Cabrini Green area, "not much" is a phat (yes, p-h) 2-3 bedroom apt with w/d in-unit, stainless steel appliances etc etc, all for 100 bucks a month (seriously, the apartments in these buildings could easily fetch 2200-2400 a month in rent, but instead the tenant pays a hundred bucks and the city pays the rest). One lady actually COMPLAINED because she was being "FORCED" to pay 30 extra dollars a month on her electric bill (still a measly portion of the total bill because of other help she's getting).

 

Not having to work for anything breeds crime. What else is their to do? Get a job?

 

 

 

(speaking in generalities of course)

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Well this is hands-down one of the most disgusting threads I've seen in a while.

 

[bmags]

I would also like to point out some problems in the criminal justice system. We've been fighting the supply of drugs with billions of dollars for 40+ years unsuccessfully. When do we start committing the same amount to the demand? More than that, from a distance, the things that make us angry are when a guilty person goes free(edit: obviously neither are ideal, but it was the amount of times this happens comparatively is so disturbing). But studying the criminal justice system, I'm so much more disgusted at the innocent ones going to jail due to prosecutorial misconduct, and the false confessions finally being brought to light with books like Grisham's "The Innocent Man". It is not once in a while this goes on. One of the problems is how we grade. The police dept's are graded on number of clearances, the prosecutors on convictions. But the job of a prosecutor is supposed to be to find justice, not convictions. I believed the SCOTUS ruled on that in the 30's? Then, with their job being an electable position, I think it has done the opposite of it's intentions. Rarely is prosecutorial misconduct reported on because journalists aren't as familiar with the legal system and they end up just covering the "box score" as opposed to the game. So what they take to us is "look how tough I am on crime", and that is measured through their conviction rate. So when the police are graded on how many cases they can get to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor on how many he can convict, how many times is good police work circumvented in way of career ambitions?

 

just a thought...

Edited March 3, 2008 by bmags

[EvilMonkey]

Who are all these single mothers "by choice?" Why is it their fault? Why is it that you heap none of the blame heaped on the blame on absentee fathers? It's not exactly like America is crawling with young men looking to get married after knockin up a girl.

 

I don't know a single single-mother who would reached that status entirely "by choice." And I know more than a handful...

 

If you're going to blame the wrongs of our prison system on single mother, at least get the cause of single mothers correct.

I was remiss in not also assigning blame to the scum who father children and then fail to do the right thing. Parenst have the responsibility to raise and prepare the child to become an adult who can function and thrive in the world. There are few lower than the guy who helps bring a life into this world and then does nothing to nurture it. Condoms are cheaper than kids. They poop less, too.

 

As for the single moms by choice, I know this doesn't 'prove' anything to you, but they have thier own webiste.

http://www.singlemothersbychoice.com/ Has all sorts of support info, newsletters, and even pictures of members.

 

[EvilMonkey]

So when the police are graded on how many cases they can get to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor on how many he can convict, how many times is good police work circumvented in way of career ambitions?

 

just a thought...

That was a good thought. We see the really aggregious ones like the Duke case, but how many more areout there simply becasue some certain quota or goal needed to be reached?

[bmags]

It is difficult for me for a couple reasons:

 

1) For democracy to work, we need an educated citizenry, as far as even state congressional positions I feel we have that working. But for positions like States Attorney's (and added to the fact that assistant SA's we never see or hear about, they are even hard to find online, work these cases) and Judges, it is extremely difficult to have an educated public.

 

2) The reason they are up for election is accountability. As bad as flaunting your conviction record has shown the potential to be, so is the potential of these important positions being given to people as favors.

 

I don't know what would work better. But I feel like #1 ain't workin too great so far.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I was remiss in not also assigning blame to the scum who father children and then fail to do the right thing. Parenst have the responsibility to raise and prepare the child to become an adult who can function and thrive in the world. There are few lower than the guy who helps bring a life into this world and then does nothing to nurture it. Condoms are cheaper than kids. They poop less, too.

 

As for the single moms by choice, I know this doesn't 'prove' anything to you, but they have thier own webiste.

http://www.singlemothersbychoice.com/ Has all sorts of support info, newsletters, and even pictures of members.

I'm with Soxy. I'm out.

 

If you honestly believe that a the women behind the website you linked, self described as "career women in our thirties and forties. The ticking of our biological clocks has made us face the fact that we could no longer wait for marriage before starting our families. Some of us went to a doctor for donor insemination or adopted in the United States or abroad. Others accidentally became pregnant and discovered we were thrilled" are even worth a mention in the debate surrounding are prison population, well I feel sorry for you.

[EvilMonkey]

I'm with Soxy. I'm out.

 

If you honestly believe that a the women behind the website you linked, self described as "career women in our thirties and forties. The ticking of our biological clocks has made us face the fact that we could no longer wait for marriage before starting our families. Some of us went to a doctor for donor insemination or adopted in the United States or abroad. Others accidentally became pregnant and discovered we were thrilled" are even worth a mention in the debate surrounding are prison population, well I feel sorry for you.

Yeah, it did get a little off track. Single parenthood is a contributing factor in the crime rate. However, like heathcare, there is no one solution to solve it. The marraige rate could suddenly by 100% tomorrow, but that alone wouldn't do the trick. There needs to be other things to happen all in concert with each other to truely reduce the prison rate.

[NorthSideSox72]

So when the police are graded on how many cases they can get to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor on how many he can convict, how many times is good police work circumvented in way of career ambitions?

 

just a thought...

I can't speak for departments everywhere, but I can say that its been my experience around a number of them that they are not graded on "how many cases they can get to the prosecutor". That would be a dangerous precedent for exactly the reasons you highlight.

 

Now, maybe you could grade cops on how many of the cases they DO send up actually get a conviction or plea deal, versus how many are thrown out or lose in court. But even that would probably not be very fair.

 

[Controlled Chaos]

Where did you get that number from?

Well I knew I heard that figure before so I just googled '70% out of wedlock' and got these hits...

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4865449

http://racerelations.about.com/od/parentin...utofwedlock.htm

http://michaelmedved.townhall.com/columnis...p;comments=true

 

I think the last article kinda speaks to what Alpha was talking about.

 

IMO, it is a huge factor in the escalating prison numbers, yet is rarely discussed. The leaders in this country, black and white, need to highlight these issues, but they never do. I may have missed it, but I don't think it has come up in any debate this year? Children from households sans the father represent about 70% of the prison pop.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well this is hands-down one of the most disgusting threads I've seen in a while.

 

why?