SOS = Sox Operate Stupidly

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I wanted to start a new thread about the way the Sox spend money in dumb areas they could be spending in others instead. Someone made this very valid comment in another thread and I think it would make a great topic:

 

Ideally, I'd dump Uribe, and use that $4.5M on the draft and some Latin American signings to re-stock the minor league system.

 

I don't really see that Sox using that money that way though. Would be very pleasant if they did, but I won't hold my breath.

 

Look at this

 

It looks like the top 3 bonuses given to talent out of the Dominican Republic in 2006 added up to $4.7 million. These bonuses were given to Angel Villalona, Esmailyn Gonzalez, and Carlos Triunfel. Just for the record, Alex Cintron and Rob Mackowiak combined to make $4.15 million in 2006. If we had used minor league invites at the league minimum to back up at SS and LF, it would have saved us about $3 million. That alone gets you two of these guys, and roughly another $1.7 million gets all three. BTW, I picked 2006 signings since those guys played last year, so you can see where some of them are at.

 

Now, Uribe makes $4.5 million this year. Hall makes $1.75 million. Pablo Ozuna makes $1.05 million. Mike MacDougal makes $1.95 million. Crede gets $5.1 million.

 

The league minimum is $390K. If we dump Uribe for a prospect and replace him with Alexei Ramirez we save the whole $4.5 there. If we dump Hall for a nobody prospect and replace him with Lucy we save $1.36 million. If we trade Pablo for next to nothing and replace his legs with Jerry Owens' while adding Anderson as the back-up OF, we save $0.66 million. Dump MacDougal, sub in Wassermann, and you get a better righty specialist for $1.56 million less. Start Fields then send Crede to whoever for another non-roster prospect and you save that whole $5.1 million. In total that would be a savings of $13.18 million.

 

Now another point is the draft. The Sox pick 8th this year. The largest bonus given to any first rounder picked 8th or lower last year was $3.58 million for Porcello (thanks, Kenny). Poreda was picked up at $1.2 million, and it's funny because if you go to this site, there were only four teams that signed a player BELOW recommended slot (Rockies, Reds, Twins, Sox). I guess maybe MLB isn't as anal about going over slot as we've heard? Porcello's contract itself was worth $7.29 million, but that is another story since it is a 4 year major league contract and he could be starting in the big leagues by 2009. Poreda may not have a major league contract, but he doesn't have a breaking ball either, so I don't know how one would defend that pick over Porcello. In terms of bonuses, Poreda was $2.38 million cheaper.

 

So let's think about this: if we were to dump some dead weight and slightly weaken our bench, we could save somewhere around that $13.18 million. If we used that to spend an additional $2.38 million on the first round of the draft we'd have $10.8 million left over for international FA and over-slot signing bonuses in the later rounds.

 

How the f*** does this not make sense to the Sox? We splurge for just one f***ing year and we put our farm at least in the middle of the pack instead of at the bottom. I see no earthly reason why the Sox wouldn't want to do this, especially with Kenny at the helm. All Kenny does is f***ing trade prospects, so why not sign some of these mother f***ers and give yourself something to play with? We're not going to keep them anyway, so instead of pissing your money away on people who can't f***ing hit anyway, and instead of wasting your first rounder on safe picks and pitchers with no secondary stuff, draft and sign some kids with worlds of potential and then deal them for major league talent. That way when a Miguel Cabrera DOES become available, you don't look like a f***tard because your minor league system sucks when you could have made it stronger by spending wiser.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[nitetrain8601]

Great post all around.

[joeynach]

The reason they wont do that is because is have a fiscal bottom line to worry about every season. The points you make build a nice ballclub and require sacrificing at least 1. The point is sacrificing means less ticket sales, revenue, lower season ticket base, less media exposure, less advertising, less sponsorship, etc. While we could all care less about that for 1 season if we believe its going to bring us championships later I dont feel management can feel that way. While winning can bring revenue good mgmt can bring revenue even when the team isn't winning. And thats mgmt's concern, being a successful business when winning is easy, its default, but mgmt's draw is to make the organization a revenue streaming machine with or without winning. And that my friend is the innate dilemma.

[RockRaines]

Kenny f***ing hates prospects, duh.

[JohnCangelosi]

I wanted to start a new thread about the way the Sox spend money in dumb areas they could be spending in others instead. Someone made this very valid comment in another thread and I think it would make a great topic:

Look at this

 

It looks like the top 3 bonuses given to talent out of the Dominican Republic in 2006 added up to $4.7 million. These bonuses were given to Angel Villalona, Esmailyn Gonzalez, and Carlos Triunfel. Just for the record, Alex Cintron and Rob Mackowiak combined to make $4.15 million in 2006. If we had used minor league invites at the league minimum to back up at SS and LF, it would have saved us about $3 million. That alone gets you two of these guys, and roughly another $1.7 million gets all three. BTW, I picked 2006 signings since those guys played last year, so you can see where some of them are at.

 

Now, Uribe makes $4.5 million this year. Hall makes $1.75 million. Pablo Ozuna makes $1.05 million. Mike MacDougal makes $1.95 million. Crede gets $5.1 million.

 

The league minimum is $390K. If we dump Uribe for a prospect and replace him with Alexei Ramirez we save the whole $4.5 there. If we dump Hall for a nobody prospect and replace him with Lucy we save $1.36 million. If we trade Pablo for next to nothing and replace his legs with Jerry Owens' while adding Anderson as the back-up OF, we save $0.66 million. Dump MacDougal, sub in Wassermann, and you get a better righty specialist for $1.56 million less. Start Fields then send Crede to whoever for another non-roster prospect and you save that whole $5.1 million. In total that would be a savings of $13.18 million.

 

Now another point is the draft. The Sox pick 8th this year. The largest bonus given to any first rounder picked 8th or lower last year was $3.58 million for Porcello (thanks, Kenny). Poreda was picked up at $1.2 million, and it's funny because if you go to this site, there were only four teams that signed a player BELOW recommended slot (Rockies, Reds, Twins, Sox). I guess maybe MLB isn't as anal about going over slot as we've heard? Porcello's contract itself was worth $7.29 million, but that is another story since it is a 4 year major league contract and he could be starting in the big leagues by 2009. Poreda may not have a major league contract, but he doesn't have a breaking ball either, so I don't know how one would defend that pick over Porcello. In terms of bonuses, Poreda was $2.38 million cheaper.

 

So let's think about this: if we were to dump some dead weight and slightly weaken our bench, we could save somewhere around that $13.18 million. If we used that to spend an additional $2.38 million on the first round of the draft we'd have $10.8 million left over for international FA and over-slot signing bonuses in the later rounds.

 

How the f*** does this not make sense to the Sox? We splurge for just one f***ing year and we put our farm at least in the middle of the pack instead of at the bottom. I see no earthly reason why the Sox wouldn't want to do this, especially with Kenny at the helm. All Kenny does is f***ing trade prospects, so why not sign some of these mother f***ers and give yourself something to play with? We're not going to keep them anyway, so instead of pissing your money away on people who can't f***ing hit anyway, and instead of wasting your first rounder on safe picks and pitchers with no secondary stuff, draft and sign some kids with worlds of potential and then deal them for major league talent. That way when a Miguel Cabrera DOES become available, you don't look like a f***tard because your minor league system sucks when you could have made it stronger by spending wiser.

 

Point taken, however did you ever consider NO ONE is willing to take Uribe and his $4.5 M salary?

[lvjeremylv]

Point taken, however did you ever consider NO ONE is willing to take Uribe and his $4.5 M salary?

There are players out there who have long-term contracts that are just as stupid as Juan Uribe's 1-yr $4.5M deal. So it's not inconceivable that we could find a team to take him off our hands.

[Harry Chappas]

To make this point valid you need to look at the bonus paid historically to these players as well as to draft picks. Borchard was given a huge bonus remember.

 

Who got the larger bonus Magglio Ordonez or Joe Borchard?

 

 

[Vance Law]

There are players out there who have long-term contracts that are just as stupid as Juan Uribe's 1-yr $4.5M deal.

 

Yes. The title of this thread should be BTOS= Baseball Teams Operate Stupidly. We examine and scrutinize every single detail of every single thing our favorite team does. We conclude that there are things that are less than optimal. We examine the other teams with 1/1,000th the attention. What's dumber, paying Uribe $4.5 million when maybe he's worth $3 million, or paying JD Drew and Julio Lugo $22 million to put up a combined OPS of about .715. How about paying Garrett Anderson and Gary Matthews a combined $21 million this year, when neither one will be a full time player, and they will likely put up numbers right around league average. $21 million for 2 Mackowiaks. $21 million for Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones to block Matt Kemp who is probably a superior player all around than either of them. And talk of getting Brandon Inge, to go along with Nomar's $8.5 million to block LaRoche. How smart is the team that has to pay Inge $19 mil over 3 years in the first place unless they pay someone to take him off their hands?

 

 

[DBAHO]

Point taken, however did you ever consider NO ONE is willing to take Uribe and his $4.5 M salary?

 

I'd think the Giants and Orioles would be the 2 teams who would take on Uribe if the price was right, and depending on other factors.

 

The fact remains, if you keep Joe Crede and Juan Uribe on the team (very unlikely I know), that's $9.5M you have on the bench. How many extra wins are those 2 players going to give this team in 2008? Not many at all I would have thought.

 

Hence, why I threw up that original idea in the 1st place, about trying to trade those 2, and allocate those resources better.

 

We know that KW likes to wheel and deal, but to do that we need prospects, and quality ones at that.

 

[Leonard Zelig]

I'd think the Giants and Orioles would be the 2 teams who would take on Uribe if the price was right, and depending on other factors.

 

The fact remains, if you keep Joe Crede and Juan Uribe on the team (very unlikely I know), that's $9.5M you have on the bench. How many extra wins are those 2 players going to give this team in 2008? Not many at all I would have thought.

 

Hence, why I threw up that original idea in the 1st place, about trying to trade those 2, and allocate those resources better.

 

We know that KW likes to wheel and deal, but to do that we need prospects, and quality ones at that.

 

 

If the Sox hold on to Crede he won't be on the bench.

[DBAHO]

If the Sox hold on to Crede he won't be on the bench.

Oh yeah certainly.

 

Although then Fields would start in AAA, which would just be stupid, considering he's likely the better player b/w the 2 in 2008.

 

But my point was, the Sox have basically put 9.5M towards 2 players who aren't going to start for them.

 

They're likely to trade 1 for prospects, which is a start. However, they should do that to the other also. Jason Bourgeois could play the role Juan Uribe could, it's not like you need to replace Orlando Cabrera late in games, and although he'll need a rest everynow and then, you could always sign a stopgap in FA for much cheaper.

 

Put that money to better use, is my overall point. Don't throw money around at guys who are not going to help you win a division. Use that money to get guys who can do that for you in the future instead.

[vandy125]

The Uribe money was basically so we were not over a barrel to get OCab (or at least find someone better). I don't mind 4.5 million to do that. I'll wait and see what the roster looks like when the season starts before worrying too much about this.

[Harry Chappas]

Based on early reviews this team is in much better position to sustain an injury than last season. I really hope I never have to watch a talentless player like Andy Gonzalez again.

 

Outside of Buerhle, Vazquez and possibly AJ we could replace any player on this team and in some cases be a more rounded ball club becasue of it.

[lvjeremylv]

Outside of Buerhle, Vazquez and possibly AJ we could replace any player on this team and in some cases be a more rounded ball club becasue of it.

I'd toss Jenks into that as well. We have no relievers that have proven they can close games AND stay healthy, so Bobby is definitely extremely valuable.

[Gregory Pratt]

Based on early reviews this team is in much better position to sustain an injury than last season. I really hope I never have to watch a talentless player like Andy Gonzalez again.

 

Outside of Buerhle, Vazquez and possibly AJ we could replace any player on this team and in some cases be a more rounded ball club becasue of it.

 

We don't have any true replacements for Thome.

[Harry Chappas]

We don't have any true replacements for Thome.

 

Swisher to LF, Quintin to RF and Anderson to CF and Dye to DH while Quintin/Owens/ or Anderson play more. You see I beleive Anderson should be the starting CF because he makes the defense better. An outfield of Quintin/Anderson/Swisher is really really good and will hel pthe young pitching. Thome's bat will be missed by the defense makes up for it.

 

As for losing Jenks that hurts but if Dotel is healthy they still have an option. Now if both are hurt.....well at some time (like last year) injuries will do you in. I just think they can survive better this year.

[DBAHO]

The Uribe money was basically so we were not over a barrel to get OCab (or at least find someone better). I don't mind 4.5 million to do that. I'll wait and see what the roster looks like when the season starts before worrying too much about this.

What was the timeframe b/w the signing of Uribe and the trade for O-Cab FWIW.

 

If it was only a week or 2, you would have thought KW would have had at least some discussions with the Angels about the trade before signing Uribe.

 

Maybe he thought he could trade Juan? I don't know, maybe he still does?

[vandy125]

What was the timeframe b/w the signing of Uribe and the trade for O-Cab FWIW.

 

If it was only a week or 2, you would have thought KW would have had at least some discussions with the Angels about the trade before signing Uribe.

 

Maybe he thought he could trade Juan? I don't know, maybe he still does?

 

He probably was in the middle of those discussions, but IIRC the Juan signing was at a hard deadline. It was either sign him or lose him. Where would that have put those discussions if he lost Juan right in the middle of them?

[lostfan]

We don't have any true replacements for Thome.

I suppose you could count Fields if you wanted to stretch it.

[witesoxfan]

I suppose you could count Fields if you wanted to stretch it.

 

Not when Crede should be on a different team come mid March

[Vance Law]

Based on early reviews this team is in much better position to sustain an injury than last season. I really hope I never have to watch a talentless player like Andy Gonzalez again.

 

Sox didn't sustain an injury last season. They sustained 3 to the guys on the major league team who play 3rd base (Crede, Ozuna, and Cintron), and traded the other (Mackowiak) midseason when the season no longer mattered. This was more or less a moot point at third as Fields took over there as expected as plan B once Crede went down. Andy Gonzalez didn't see regular time until the very end of the season when Fields was being tried out in left.

 

Any Guy who Disagrees: "Gonzalez was worthless out there. I should never have to see my Sox put that kind of crap player on the field."

 

Me: "Yes you should. When the season no longer matters at all, when 3 potential 3rd basemen are down with injuries and a 4th is traded, when the starting 3rd baseman from AAA has been moved to left field, you should see the starting AAA shortstop (the 6th option down the list after Crede, Fields, Ozuna, Mackowiak, and Cintron) get some playing time."

Edited March 5, 2008 by Vance Law

[shawnhillegas]

This post is a first. An angry, emotional, tirade, that is, at the same time, right on point and well written. Nice job.

[YASNY]

He probably was in the middle of those discussions, but IIRC the Juan signing was at a hard deadline. It was either sign him or lose him. Where would that have put those discussions if he lost Juan right in the middle of them?

 

Uribe was at the deadline. The next day iirc, he'd have been a FA. I also very distinctly remember that after Uribe signed, the Angels commented that they were going to offer OC to the SOx. Based on that, I'd have to say no Sox/Angels negotiations were under way when Uribe signed.

[JoeBatterz]

Really great post in the terms of the research that went into it. I look forward to more of these.

[Dick Allen]

Sox didn't sustain an injury last season. They sustained 3 to the guys on the major league team who play 3rd base (Crede, Ozuna, and Cintron), and traded the other (Mackowiak) midseason when the season no longer mattered. This was more or less a moot point at third as Fields took over there as expected as plan B once Crede went down. Andy Gonzalez didn't see regular time until the very end of the season when Fields was being tried out in left.

 

Any Guy who Disagrees: "Gonzalez was worthless out there. I should never have to see my Sox put that kind of crap player on the field."

 

Me: "Yes you should. When the season no longer matters at all, when 3 potential 3rd basemen are down with injuries and a 4th is traded, when the starting 3rd baseman from AAA has been moved to left field, you should see the starting AAA shortstop (the 6th option down the list after Crede, Fields, Ozuna, Mackowiak, and Cintron) get some playing time."

They may have been forced to put him on the field, but guys like Burgiose (sp) didn't get a shot at all, and apparently deserved one. There is no defending having him lead off. None.

 

Andy played in 67 games. Cherry pick his top 4 offensive games where he went a combined 11-14 and he hit .137 the other 63. Add to that some less than stellar work with the leather and a case could be made a beer league is more his level.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Dick Allen