So Brian Anderson's hitting...

[Kalapse]

Ah yes pick out the smaller sample size while completely ignoring the more relevant MLB service time.

You completely misinterpreted my comment.

 

I just find it silly to say Jerry Owens has outplayed Brian Anderson in their 27 combined ABs this spring. The small sample size makes it impossible to compare the two.

 

As for comparing their major league numbers, they've both been god awful offensive players in the majors but you're probably right Jerry Owens has been the taller midget by a good half inch.

[DBAHO]

The stat I look at for Owens is Post ASB OBP from last season, a .339 OBP.

 

But I get the feeling, the Sox brass look at how he finished in September (.340 .396 .371 .767), and figure that's what he's capable of, if he was given the opportunity.

 

Something around a .350 OBP, would be a best case scenario for me.

 

So that's not too shabby, but I'd still rather Swisher lead-off, Cabrera hit #2, and Quentin hit down lower in the order.

 

Whether that happens, it's 50-50 at this stage.

[knightni]

Hmmm.

 

Maybe Quentin's not as healthy as they are reporting.

[Kalapse]

Hmmm.

 

Maybe Quentin's not as healthy as they are reporting.

Then he wouldn't be playing.

[southsideirish71]

While it really shouldn't be surprising, the OF situation is quite puzzling.

 

On December 3rd, Quentin was acquired by using Chris Carter, the real only quality positional prospect in the Sox system.

 

One month later, what was left of the Sox system was traded away for Nick Swisher.

 

Two months later, with 4 ST games being played, apparently Jerry Owens, a player that was on the roster for most of the 2007 season is considered the favorite for an OF spot, with Swisher taking the other one.

 

So what happened in those two months? Did the Sox not do their homework on Quentin, and didn't know what they were getting, or was it just a short sided move on there part, because with the holes that still remain on this club, did the Sox just trade away a solid spec in Carter for what they feel is a 4th OF?

 

I'm not saying that because Carter was traded for Quentin he has to start, but what has Carlos really done to all the sudden be behind Owens? What has Jerry done to jump in the lead for the LF spot?

Kenny?

 

This is Ozzie Guillen's footprint for this one, not Kennys. Sure Ozzie spoke of OBP but when its all said and done he wants a speedster ala Pods and Ala Pierre. If he viewed OBP as a valuable commodity Mr. Owens wouldnt be on the team right now. Ozzie wants his prototypical bantam weight track star. Look at all to goo about Owens by Ozzie already. Camp is only 2 weeks old and he is gooing about how it would be great to have Owens as the leadoff guy. Now why would it be good to have him as the leadoff guy. Sure he is fast and can steal bases, but he sure as hell cant get on base enough to make a difference. We didnt learn a thing from last years Pods/Erstad deal. We still want 2 low OBP guys up on top because we are trying to recreate the Marlins offense. This is not the national league, you dont need some low OBP guy who is fast and can bunt. You need a guy who can get on base so the guys behind him can drive them in. Its amazing how quick it was for Ozzie to jump on the Uribe needs to be the starter, and now Owens needs to be the starter. Sounds like the 08 version of the Erstad trials. These battles were already figured out before Ozzie stepped foot in the Arizona sun. Uribe will be the 2nd baseman, and Owens and his miserable OBP will be choking our offense out as he gains most of his OBP from his batting average. Hope he hits about .340 then. He needs all the help he can get.

 

 

[Kalapse]

How many options does Brian Anderson and Jerry Owens have?

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5642/wh...tsheet32ql8.jpg

[SoxAce]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5642/wh...tsheet32ql8.jpg

 

OT: Doesn't MacDougal have an option left?

[Felix]

No. Where does he fit in the lineup? Putting him in CF means Swisher is probably the leadoff man. And that doesn't make much sense since he's a run producer. Plus I think everyone is sick of his mouth. I know I am.

Swisher would make a pretty good leadoff hitter, and the Sox should seriously think about putting him there.

 

(I'd elaborate, but this has been mentioned in other threads by people with much more convincing arguments than mine)

 

 

Oh, and I'd definitely agree that BA has power, and is a better option at 4th outfielder than Owens. Still, it's unlikely that he'll actually get that job, since Owens seems to be a favorite of both KW & Ozzie.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Felix

[Kalapse]

OT: Doesn't MacDougal have an option left?

No, KC used up 2 of his options in '02 and '04 and the Sox used his final option last year.

[JohnCangelosi]

While it really shouldn't be surprising, the OF situation is quite puzzling.

 

On December 3rd, Quentin was acquired by using Chris Carter, the real only quality positional prospect in the Sox system.

 

One month later, what was left of the Sox system was traded away for Nick Swisher.

 

Two months later, with 4 ST games being played, apparently Jerry Owens, a player that was on the roster for most of the 2007 season is considered the favorite for an OF spot, with Swisher taking the other one.

 

So what happened in those two months? Did the Sox not do their homework on Quentin, and didn't know what they were getting, or was it just a short sided move on there part, because with the holes that still remain on this club, did the Sox just trade away a solid spec in Carter for what they feel is a 4th OF?

 

I'm not saying that because Carter was traded for Quentin he has to start, but what has Carlos really done to all the sudden be behind Owens? What has Jerry done to jump in the lead for the LF spot?

Kenny?

He led off the season with a bunt base hit in the intersquad game. Leadoff job officially received in February.

[ptatc]

This is Ozzie Guillen's footprint for this one, not Kennys. Sure Ozzie spoke of OBP but when its all said and done he wants a speedster ala Pods and Ala Pierre. If he viewed OBP as a valuable commodity Mr. Owens wouldnt be on the team right now. Ozzie wants his prototypical bantam weight track star. Look at all to goo about Owens by Ozzie already. Camp is only 2 weeks old and he is gooing about how it would be great to have Owens as the leadoff guy. Now why would it be good to have him as the leadoff guy. Sure he is fast and can steal bases, but he sure as hell cant get on base enough to make a difference. We didnt learn a thing from last years Pods/Erstad deal. We still want 2 low OBP guys up on top because we are trying to recreate the Marlins offense. This is not the national league, you dont need some low OBP guy who is fast and can bunt. You need a guy who can get on base so the guys behind him can drive them in. Its amazing how quick it was for Ozzie to jump on the Uribe needs to be the starter, and now Owens needs to be the starter. Sounds like the 08 version of the Erstad trials. These battles were already figured out before Ozzie stepped foot in the Arizona sun. Uribe will be the 2nd baseman, and Owens and his miserable OBP will be choking our offense out as he gains most of his OBP from his batting average. Hope he hits about .340 then. He needs all the help he can get.

 

Or he is trying recreate the White Sox offense when the team was winning. In 05 and 06 the team was winning and this was the type of offense he had. It's the type of offense that won when he was with the Marlins. They are probably going by experience. Pitching was the key of course and they are trying to build the same type of team. Good rotation, bullpen and defense with an adequate offense.

 

We've has these discussions before and you can continue to complain about it because they will keep doing it. They've won a heck of alot more games than they've lost using this concept.

 

[southsideirish71]

Or he is trying recreate the White Sox offense when the team was winning. In 05 and 06 the team was winning and this was the type of offense he had. It's the type of offense that won when he was with the Marlins. They are probably going by experience. Pitching was the key of course and they are trying to build the same type of team. Good rotation, bullpen and defense with an adequate offense.

 

We've has these discussions before and you can continue to complain about it because they will keep doing it. They've won a heck of alot more games than they've lost using this concept.

 

In 05 we won because of great pitching and an offense that got hot at the very end of the year. Outside of that in 05 the offense was bad. In the first part of 06 we hit the crap out of the ball, and in the 2nd part of 06 Pods was lost in groin-injurville. In 06 we had a good offense because Thome and company were crushing the ball and hitting everything. Not because Pods was stealing bases.

[CWSGuy406]

We've has these discussions before and you can continue to complain about it because they will keep doing it. They've won a heck of alot more games than they've lost using this concept.

 

And all of... one division title and playoff appearance.

 

It's like last year all over again. They (Kenny, the media...) told us how awesome our top-of-the-order was going to be with Podsednik and Erstad. Speed and a guy who can handle the bat? OMGz teh awesome!!!!1 Hell -- IIRC -- you had the pro-Erstad people telling the anti-Erstad people after April -- after Erstad had put up an amazing .313 OBP -- how wrong they were.

 

Yeah -- that turned out well.

 

It's an embarrassment that we actually have to discuss whether Jerry f***ing Owens is going to be starting.

[lvjeremylv]

What do we do with this?

Um, it's March 3. Therefore we do nothing about it. If he's "still hitting" come the end of March, then there will be something to discuss.

[EvilJester99]

No, KC used up 2 of his options in '02 and '04 and the Sox used his final option last year.

Actually, IIRC Mac wasn't down in AAA long enough to use that remaining option. I believe he still has it.I believe Comcast spotsnet had something on this very subject about him not too long ago.

Edited March 3, 2008 by EvilJester99

[WCSox]

It's an embarrassment that we actually have to discuss whether Jerry f***ing Owens is going to be starting.

 

Yeah, because the rest of the lineup (Swisher, Dye, Konerko, Cabrera, Fields/Crede, Thome) really sucks. :oldrolleyes:

 

While there's still a question mark in CF, let's not pretend that it's an "embarrassment."

 

Edited March 3, 2008 by WCSox

[RockRaines]

And all of... one division title and playoff appearance.

 

It's like last year all over again. They (Kenny, the media...) told us how awesome our top-of-the-order was going to be with Podsednik and Erstad. Speed and a guy who can handle the bat? OMGz teh awesome!!!!1 Hell -- IIRC -- you had the pro-Erstad people telling the anti-Erstad people after April -- after Erstad had put up an amazing .313 OBP -- how wrong they were.

 

Yeah -- that turned out well.

 

It's an embarrassment that we actually have to discuss whether Jerry f***ing Owens is going to be starting.

It wasnt their ability that made them bad, it was the fact that they were injured the entire season. There also werent really any betterin house options. Jerry could very well end up being a good lead off hitter. Of course the only player that has really seriously been mentioned as the lead off hitter in the papers has been Swish, but that hasnt stopped Soxtalk from jumping to its collective conclusions.

[Balta1701]

It wasnt their ability that made them bad, it was the fact that they were injured the entire season. There also werent really any betterin house options. Jerry could very well end up being a good lead off hitter. Of course the only player that has really seriously been mentioned as the lead off hitter in the papers has been Swish, but that hasnt stopped Soxtalk from jumping to its collective conclusions.

With Erstad, yes it was. A healthy Darin Erstad just isn't that good.

[SkokieSox]

In 05 we won because of great pitching and an offense that got hot at the very end of the year. Outside of that in 05 the offense was bad. In the first part of 06 we hit the crap out of the ball, and in the 2nd part of 06 Pods was lost in groin-injurville. In 06 we had a good offense because Thome and company were crushing the ball and hitting everything. Not because Pods was stealing bases.

 

05 offense moved runners to score, and often were able to score early in games, allowing the pitching staff to be in a position of strength when on the mound.

[CWSGuy406]

It wasnt their ability that made them bad, it was the fact that they were injured the entire season. There also werent really any betterin house options. Jerry could very well end up being a good lead off hitter. Of course the only player that has really seriously been mentioned as the lead off hitter in the papers has been Swish, but that hasnt stopped Soxtalk from jumping to its collective conclusions.

 

I don't think you've been paying attention.

 

And with Erstad, of course it was his ability that made him bad. He was healthy for the first two months and... subsequently put up a .315 OBP which, quite frankly, should've been expected. I believe ZiPS and PECOTA had him pegged for around .330. Erstad as 4th OFer/bench player = okay. Erstad as starter (going back to the end of 2004, really). And ditto Podsednik, who hasn't been a good ballplayer since the first-half of 2005 (and the playoffs, of course -- thanks Scott!).

Edited March 4, 2008 by CWSGuy406

[DBAHO]

Well I think Owens is capable of having an OBP over .330 at least, I projected something around a .350 OBP is possible for him.

 

Still that's not really that "good", I mean it's ok, decent for a leadoff hitter, but I think the offense still performs better with Swisher leading off (in a Grady Sizemore kind of leadoff hitter role), and having Cabrera at #2, and Quentin lower down the order, putting up an .800 OPS.

 

The Erstad signing was a mistake, and he should have never been given a starting role. So much for the "grinders" we needed hey.

 

Grinders have now turned into "OBPSC". On Base Percentage Sufficiently Challenged.

 

Hopefully the new guys we have brought in put a stop to that problem.

[RockRaines]

I don't think you've been paying attention.

 

And with Erstad, of course it was his ability that made him bad. He was healthy for the first two months and... subsequently put up a .315 OBP which, quite frankly, should've been expected. I believe ZiPS and PECOTA had him pegged for around .330. Erstad as 4th OFer/bench player = okay. Erstad as starter (going back to the end of 2004, really). And ditto Podsednik, who hasn't been a good ballplayer since the first-half of 2005 (and the playoffs, of course -- thanks Scott!).

Nope, I didnt read that. And I said ability, which they both had to be effective, of course the probability of them not being effective was much higher. I think you confused me for endorsing those players, those signings were awful.

 

All I know is that a white sox fan should want the OF to be Quentin, Swish and Dye, because that gives us the most talent offensively IMO. Quentin is going to end up a ridiculously superior hitter than Owens. Most likely Swish should lead off at this point.

[YASNY]

Nope, I didnt read that. And I said ability, which they both had to be effective, of course the probability of them not being effective was much higher. I think you confused me for endorsing those players, those signings were awful.

 

All I know is that a white sox fan should want the OF to be Quentin, Swish and Dye, because that gives us the most talent offensively IMO. Quentin is going to end up a ridiculously superior hitter than Owens. Most likely Swish should lead off at this point.

 

I agree with you at this point. But I'm not going to be all pissed that they give Owens his shot to win the job.

[greg775]

This thread was started a while ago. Try as I might, I never pay much

attention to spring training. How's Brian been doing lately? Is he playing

every day? What's the update?

[santo=dorf]

Two more hits today boost his average to .375, He also had a walk.