Harvard bans men from gym for certain hours.

[Rex Kickass]

Why should I not be allowed to use a gym I'm paying for equally because of someone else's religious beliefs?

 

You would be allowed to use this gym. 64 of the 70 hours that the gym is being used. You also would be able to use every other gym in the system during all open hours as well. There are other restrictions on the use of other athletic facilities in the Harvard system based on ability as well. Nobody is having anything taken away. And if someone is whining that they have to walk an extra 10 minutes to exercise, that's almost as stupid as this fake outrage is.

[StrangeSox]

You would be allowed to use this gym. 64 of the 70 hours that the gym is being used. You also would be able to use every other gym in the system during all open hours as well. There are other restrictions on the use of other athletic facilities in the Harvard system based on ability as well. Nobody is having anything taken away. And if someone is whining that they have to walk an extra 10 minutes to exercise, that's almost as stupid as this fake outrage is.

 

But women are allowed to use the gym a full 70 of the 70 hours. Why is discrimination based on gender ok here? Would it be ok to have a gym where women couldn't workout for a certain period, or would there be an awful lot of uproar?

 

And you didn't answer Alpha's question. At what point does the discrimination become unacceptable? 10 hours? 35 hours? A separate gym only for women?

Edited March 5, 2008 by StrangeSox

[Rex Kickass]

I think that would be a great idea to do. If there were six men only hours, I think that's more than acceptable.

[Rex Kickass]

But women are allowed to use the gym a full 70 of the 70 hours. Why is discrimination based on gender ok here? Would it be ok to have a gym where women couldn't workout for a certain period, or would there be an awful lot of uproar?

 

And you didn't answer Alpha's question. At what point does the discrimination become unacceptable? 10 hours? 35 hours? A separate gym only for women?

 

I don't think its unacceptable to have a separate gym for women. At all. Is it a bit biased? Sure. But then again, if there is demand for women-only gym time, and judging from the success of Curves, and based upon the use I see of the Women Only studio at my gym, I don't see the problem with a private university catering its facilities to meet the needs and wants of its students.

 

I also think that nobody, not even Alpha, would have given two s***s about this if the word muslim wasn't in this story.

[YASNY]

I don't think its unacceptable to have a separate gym for women. At all. Is it a bit biased? Sure. But then again, if there is demand for women-only gym time, and judging from the success of Curves, and based upon the use I see of the Women Only studio at my gym, I don't see the problem with a private university catering its facilities to meet the needs and wants of its students.

 

I also think that nobody, not even Alpha, would have given two s***s about this if the word muslim wasn't in this story.

 

You may very be right about Alpha, I don't know. But for you 'nondiscriminitory' democrats to be backing a discrimintory policy seems to be a bit hypocritical. How about 6 hours a week of no gays allowed in the gym? Would that be okay as well?

[Rex Kickass]

You may very be right about Alpha, I don't know. But for you 'nondiscriminitory' democrats to be backing a discrimintory policy seems to be a bit hypocritical. How about 6 hours a week of no gays allowed in the gym? Would that be okay as well?

 

How would you know who's gay and who isn't?

[YASNY]

How would you know who's gay and who isn't?

 

Just answer the question. It's direct and to the point.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

How would you know who's gay and who isn't?

 

And how would you know who's a woman and who's not?

 

 

 

^^^^Taylor Hanson

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't really care about the issue at hand, my issue is with the logic of those that are "supporting" it simply because it's "only" 6 hours and it's "only" one gym that's rarely used.

 

Can we extend this logic to say, waterboarding? It's "only" happened about 6 times and it "only" happens to extreme inmates. So even though in theory it's a deplorable practice, it's infrequent use makes it acceptable.

 

Or what about NSA wire taps? In the grand scheme of things it's quite narrow in use.

 

I mean I know what you guys are trying to say - in reality it's not THAT big of a deal. But I don't like the logic.

[mr_genius]

How would you know who's gay and who isn't?

 

They could have a don't ask don't tell policy at the gym. if someone was obviously gay, they would be banned for those 6 hours. or if they admitted to being gay, then they get banned for those 6 hours.

 

let's say a fundamentalist Christian group proposed that.

 

I'm sure you would be fine with that. right?

[jackie hayes]

I don't really care about the issue at hand, my issue is with the logic of those that are "supporting" it simply because it's "only" 6 hours and it's "only" one gym that's rarely used.

 

Can we extend this logic to say, waterboarding? It's "only" happened about 6 times and it "only" happens to extreme inmates. So even though in theory it's a deplorable practice, it's infrequent use makes it acceptable.

 

Or what about NSA wire taps? In the grand scheme of things it's quite narrow in use.

 

I mean I know what you guys are trying to say - in reality it's not THAT big of a deal. But I don't like the logic.

I would say the consequences of each act are just slightly different.

[Rex Kickass]

Just answer the question. It's direct and to the point.

 

Regardless of my position on it, how would you enforce that? I'd be against it, by the way.

[StrangeSox]

Regardless of my position on it, how would you enforce that? I'd be against it, by the way.

 

Instead of something you can't outwardly identify, how about race-based? Whites can't use this gym 3 hours a day. Sound fair?

[Jenksismyhero]

I would say the consequences of each act are just slightly different.

 

 

Totally agreed, but still. You shouldn't "justify" discrimination based on how limited it's effect is.

[EvilMonkey]

I also think that nobody, not even Alpha, would have given two s***s about this if the word muslim wasn't in this story.

I can say that you are probably correct, unless Muslim was replaced with White, Black, Christian, Jew, Gay, etc.

 

However, it DOES say Muslim, resulting in this thread, and Jenks, Strange and Yas just made some good points.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Alpha Dog

[Rex Kickass]

I can say that you are probably correct, unless Muslim was replaced with White, Black, Christian, Jew, Gay, etc.

 

However, it DOES say Muslim, resulting in this thread, and Jenks, Strange and Yas just made some good points.

Again this change applies to all women. I think there's a big difference between offering different sexes time to exercise on their own, than there is to compare it to race or orientation.

 

We separate locker rooms by women and men, we don't separate them by color, race, religion, sexuality.

 

 

[jackie hayes]

Totally agreed, but still. You shouldn't "justify" discrimination based on how limited it's effect is.

It's not a justification, it's a, Why the f*** would anyone b**** so much about something so inconsequential?

 

Major universities want to ensure that all students feel welcome, regardless of religion. Making this unbelievably minor scheduling change allows more Muslim women to feel welcome at Harvard. That strikes me as an admirable goal, and thus I think Harvard's move here was great. For those who don't agree, including any whiny Harvard wasps who knew when they enrolled that Harvard could make choices like this as it saw fit, go suck an egg.

Edited March 5, 2008 by jackie hayes

[southsider2k5]

Holy racism batman!

[StrangeSox]

Again this change applies to all women. I think there's a big difference between offering different sexes time to exercise on their own, than there is to compare it to race or orientation.

 

We separate locker rooms by women and men, we don't separate them by color, race, religion, sexuality.

 

What's the common theme between locker rooms and washrooms that isn't true of basketball courts and workout rooms?

 

You drop your pants.

[santo=dorf]

So is Harvard.

Harvard is a private school so they can do whatever they want.

Already acknowledged in my original post.

 

I also asked about what would happen if a group of skinhead Harvard students asked not to be in classes with jewish kids.

[juddling]

And how would you know who's a woman and who's not?

 

^^^^Taylor Hanson

 

 

This post makes me think of Quagmire saying he'd like to have sex with Taylor Hanson. If the Q-man can be confused.....we all can!!! LOL

[santo=dorf]

You would be allowed to use this gym. 64 of the 70 hours that the gym is being used. You also would be able to use every other gym in the system during all open hours as well. There are other restrictions on the use of other athletic facilities in the Harvard system based on ability as well. Nobody is having anything taken away. And if someone is whining that they have to walk an extra 10 minutes to exercise, that's almost as stupid as this fake outrage is.

Eventually it's going to be 60 of 70, then 54 of 70, then 44 of 70, all the way down to 0 to 70. If you can do one, you can do them all.

 

That was a weak response to his question. Why should someone pay full price for a 10% reduction? I'm sure you wouldn't like it if a fine restaurant sat you in the bathrooms (unisex or separate,) or denied you entrance for your dinner and told you, "well during these select hours we make some accomodations to satisfy a small minority of people, so you can either stay in the bathroom or go to the other restaurant over there. Full price will still be applied."

 

[Rex Kickass]

Eventually it's going to be 60 of 70, then 54 of 70, then 44 of 70, all the way down to 0 to 70. If you can do one, you can do them all.

 

That was a weak response to his question. Why should someone pay full price for a 10% reduction? I'm sure you wouldn't like it if a fine restaurant sat you in the bathrooms (unisex or separate,) or denied you entrance for your dinner and told you, "well during these select hours we make some accomodations to satisfy a small minority of people, so you can either stay in the bathroom or go to the other restaurant over there. Full price will still be applied."

 

Because as we all know, you go to Harvard for the gyms.

[santo=dorf]

Another thing, you mentioned was about all they have to do is walk 10 minutes to another gym. How long until another whiny group complains that the gym they're doing it at is too far away and it should applied to another, closer to home gym as well?

 

Give a mouse a cookie..........

Edited March 5, 2008 by santo=dorf

[NorthSideSox72]

I'd like to add a few points...

 

--Harvard is a PRIVATE university. They are therefore a business. If they want to make an accomodation which is very small in impact, frankly, I could care less, even if I went to school there.

 

--I see people hinting at the idea that because this 6 hours is set aside, then suddenly everyone will want their own gym time and there will be pandemonium. This argument is used a lot, and its always silly. Every law, ordinance, regulation and accomodation made by any business or government is in its essence a balancing act. You can't just throw up your hands and say "well, we are just too dumb to compromise, so we must keep all things all-or-none!" That is just a ridiculous mindset.

 

--I do agree with people who have suggested that there may be better alternatives to this way of doing things. It was not the smartest way to handle it. Better something like this... the school makes a small contribution to a womens' community organization or facility in the area (I almost guarantee there are some) to set up a small gym for those who feel they want privacy. Put up a plaque saying "Harvard proudly supports the female community, blah blah blah". The university looks good for accomodating a key student group, people on campus get their gym full time, and the people who want that privacy can have it. How about that idea?