Harvard bans men from gym for certain hours.

[Balta1701]

Another thing, you mentioned was about all they have to do is walk 10 minutes to another gym. How long until another whiny group complains that the gym they're doing it at is too far away and it should applied to another, closer to home gym as well?

 

Give a mouse a cookie..........

It's a gym! Walking to the gym = additional exercise!

 

[santo=dorf]

It's a gym! Walking to the gym = additional exercise!

My religion bans people from walking more than 5 minutes. Where's my shuttle? Do not be ignorant to my beliefs.

[Balta1701]

My religion bans people from walking more than 5 minutes. Where's my shuttle? Do not be ignorant to my beliefs.

Run.

[lostfan]

I wasn't aware of anyone who works out with their underwear around their ankles. Little different, don't you think?

Holy s*** you mean you don't do that? wtf no wonder everybody looks at me funny.

[Rex Kickass]

My religion bans people from walking more than 5 minutes. Where's my shuttle? Do not be ignorant to my beliefs.

 

http://www.shuttle.harvard.edu

[mr_genius]

Run.

 

I believe thats an even worse offense in santo=dorf's religion. Out of the frying pan into the fire. Skipping pretty much results in an eternal stint in hell.

Edited March 6, 2008 by mr_genius

[WilliamTell]

I have to agree wtih Santo in regards that other groups wouldn't have special treatment like these Muslim women do. Even though since Harvard is a private school and they can do whatever they want, I would be extremely mad if I went there because I'd be playing the exact same for tuition, if not more because I don't fit any of the diversity criterias with me being a Christian, white male. Also, men can't even work during these hours, I'd be pretty torked off if my hours were cut by 4 or 6 hours a week when I'm trying to get a few extra dollars in my pocket. The best solution to counteract this is to make 6 hours for men. I thought it was odd that one of the men who wanted to go to the gym but was denied thought it was ok strictly because these girls have the same religion as him.

[YASNY]

Regardless of my position on it, how would you enforce that? I'd be against it, by the way.

 

So it's ok for muslim women to have their special time because they don't want to be oggled by men, but it's not ok for heterosexual men to have their special time because they don't want to be oggled by gay men. And regardless of the details of the enforcement question, it's the principle of the question that is the issue.

[mr_genius]

haha, i like the change of the name of the thread.

 

edit: aw, the changed it back to the original

Edited March 6, 2008 by mr_genius

[WilliamTell]

Oh come on now. I liked my title better, jk. But I have created a monster.

[farmteam]

I think in practice almost no one would have a problem with this. If IU suddenly made HPER only available to women six hours out of the week, I really wouldn't care. The only people who do seem to care are the ones who want to make an issue out of something that really isn't.

 

That being said, I see where you guys are coming from in terms of the principle of the action. I feel the two groups are divided between practice vs. principle.

[santo=dorf]

I don't think anyone is arguing for the Government or the ACLU to step in as it already has been pointed out by both sides that Harvard is a private instituion.

 

Some of us are questioning how they decide to change rules for EVERYONE based on the requests of a minority group. Like I said before, if you give a mouse a cookie, they'll ask for a glass of milk. I'm sure when a Muslim holiday rolls around the women will request the hours to be shifted because they will be participating in some religious activities, and Harvard will bend over. You KNOW it will happen.

 

Where do you draw the lines? Do you do it for people of all orientations, or just religious reasons? How much do you want to bet if a group of white students asked to have separate gyms or gym hours to separate the black students from the white kids and the University went through with it, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the Rainbow Coalition would be at the campus protesting? And you know what, they would be right. That's segregation, and we should be past the 1950's by now.

 

It's funny how colleges always emphasize the diversity at their campus and talk about how important that is for the college experience, but then pull crap like this.

Edited March 6, 2008 by santo=dorf

[Rex Kickass]

So are you saying we should protest Curves for having a women's only gym? Isn't that the same principle?

[santo=dorf]

So are you saying we should protest Curves for having a women's only gym? Isn't that the same principle?

That's a business, not an educational institution, regardless I will tackle it.

 

Some portion of every student's tution is going towards that building.

 

Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, so if a man walked in and wanted to join and told him no, that's the business' loss. If that man owned part of that particular franchise, or paid some of the rent or utilities, and was was told he would have full access to everything on that lot due to his contributions and still was denied membership, he should be pissed off and at least get a portion of his money back. It's as simple as that.

[knightni]

For the longest time, Fitness USA would restrict days that women and men could go. If you were a guy, you'd pay your $500+ fee but you could only go like Tues, Thur, & Sat. Women went Mon, Wed & Fri.

 

So, if you were a guy and you wanted to exercise on a Friday, you had to drive to the next nearest Fitness and hope that they had it alternated so you could exercise.

 

FYI -

Last I checked, universities were businesses.

[iamshack]

That's a business, not an educational institution, regardless I will tackle it.

 

Some portion of every student's tution is going towards that building.

 

Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, so if a man walked in and wanted to join and told him no, that's the business' loss. If that man owned part of that particular franchise, or paid some of the rent or utilities, and was was told he would have full access to everything on that lot due to his contributions and still was denied membership, he should be pissed off and at least get a portion of his money back. It's as simple as that.

 

Umm, not exactly the case....

 

Are you saying that McDonald's can just stop serving all Muslims? Or all black people? All women?

 

I agree with NSS here. This isn't a huge deal, and the slippery-slope arguments are getting a bit out of hand. But there certainly are better ways this could have been accomplished.

 

What strikes me as a bigger problem and what bothers me the most is the "corporatization" of our institutions of higher education. Does anyone think if some other group of people came to Harvard and asked for this (without being represented by a large $ donor) they would have gotten this policy put into effect? That's what bothers me the most- that the policy was placed into effect in an effort to represent the interests of a donor who wrote a check for twenty million dollars. What about other groups that want special accommodations? Do they have to find a large donor before their policy request will be considered?

 

Universities that are "private" are not held to the same legal standards as state-operated universities for one reason- so that they may favor one religion over others- not so they can pimp themselves out to the highest donors because of their ability to escape the same standard.

[Rex Kickass]

That's a business, not an educational institution, regardless I will tackle it.

 

Some portion of every student's tution is going towards that building.

 

Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, so if a man walked in and wanted to join and told him no, that's the business' loss. If that man owned part of that particular franchise, or paid some of the rent or utilities, and was was told he would have full access to everything on that lot due to his contributions and still was denied membership, he should be pissed off and at least get a portion of his money back. It's as simple as that.

 

So any student should be allowed to sit in on any/every class they would like? When the University holds a private event, any/every student should be allowed to attend? Any/all students should be given priority to attend any school athletic event for free?

[Rex Kickass]

Umm, not exactly the case....

 

Are you saying that McDonald's can just stop serving all Muslims? Or all black people? All women?

 

I agree with NSS here. This isn't a huge deal, and the slippery-slope arguments are getting a bit out of hand. But there certainly are better ways this could have been accomplished.

 

What strikes me as a bigger problem and what bothers me the most is the "corporatization" of our institutions of higher education. Does anyone think if some other group of people came to Harvard and asked for this (without being represented by a large $ donor) they would have gotten this policy put into effect? That's what bothers me the most- that the policy was placed into effect in an effort to represent the interests of a donor who wrote a check for twenty million dollars. What about other groups that want special accommodations? Do they have to find a large donor before their policy request will be considered?

 

Universities that are "private" are not held to the same legal standards as state-operated universities for one reason- so that they may favor one religion over others- not so they can pimp themselves out to the highest donors because of their ability to escape the same standard.

 

Given that this request came from the main student organization for women in conjunction with a few women students who happen to be muslim, I'd argue that yes, in this case, Harvard would have looked to make arrangements.

[iamshack]

Given that this request came from the main student organization for women in conjunction with a few women students who happen to be muslim, I'd argue that yes, in this case, Harvard would have looked to make arrangements.

 

I'm unsure what your point is. In this case, Harvard did make the arrangements. Are you saying that if some other, less well-represented group had asked for the same, Harvard would have made the same arrangements?

Edited March 6, 2008 by iamshack

[Jenksismyhero]

So any student should be allowed to sit in on any/every class they would like? When the University holds a private event, any/every student should be allowed to attend? Any/all students should be given priority to attend any school athletic event for free?

 

 

There are other legitimate reasons for those restrictions that aren't based on your gender and religious beliefs/practices.

[WilliamTell]

For the longest time, Fitness USA would restrict days that women and men could go. If you were a guy, you'd pay your $500+ fee but you could only go like Tues, Thur, & Sat. Women went Mon, Wed & Fri.

 

So, if you were a guy and you wanted to exercise on a Friday, you had to drive to the next nearest Fitness and hope that they had it alternated so you could exercise.

 

FYI -

Last I checked, universities were businesses.

 

 

Those people who joined were fully aware of that, plus it was and equal distribution of male and female hours.

 

Obviously there would be a problem if the weightroom was the final deciding figure for anyone going to Harvard, but anyone that goes to Harvard wasn't aware of the new hours because they just started.

[iamshack]

Those people who joined were fully aware of that, plus it was and equal distribution of male and female hours.

 

Obviously there would be a problem if the weightroom was the final deciding figure for anyone going to Harvard, but anyone that goes to Harvard wasn't aware of the new hours because they just started.

 

No one chooses any college based on their athletic facilities, unless maybe they are a scholarship athlete.

 

The point is that Harvard, at least in my view, which is a premier US institution, is pimping itself out to big money donors.

[WilliamTell]

No one chooses any college based on their athletic facilities, unless maybe they are a scholarship athlete.

 

The point is that Harvard, at least in my view, which is a premier US institution, is pimping itself out to big money donors.

 

I know no one chooses based on those facilities, that's why I said there would be a problem if that was the case. But yeah I think they are pimping itself out too.

[Rex Kickass]

There are other legitimate reasons for those restrictions that aren't based on your gender and religious beliefs/practices.

 

Why should that matter? I'm paying for it aren't I. I pay the professor's salary, why shouldn't I be allowed to attend his lectures? Your argument is that your tuition should allow you access to public space at all times.

 

I fail to see the difference between reserving a room in a University restaurant that would otherwise be open for a regular staff meeting and this. What if I wanted to sit in this room? What if I would have to walk an extra five minutes to eat in another comparable room? Shouldn't I be entitled to use of that room no matter what as long as its open for use?

[santo=dorf]

Why should that matter? I'm paying for it aren't I. I pay the professor's salary, why shouldn't I be allowed to attend his lectures? Your argument is that your tuition should allow you access to public space at all times.

 

I fail to see the difference between reserving a room in a University restaurant that would otherwise be open for a regular staff meeting and this. What if I wanted to sit in this room? What if I would have to walk an extra five minutes to eat in another comparable room? Shouldn't I be entitled to use of that room no matter what as long as its open for use?

No, we aren't arguing that "because I pay I should be able to do what I want." We're talking about being able to take advantage of the school's functions. The schools are respsonsible for setting regulations as well and the paying students should follow them as it applies to all.

 

I don't see any problem with going to a professor's lecture if you're not registered for the class. I saw people drag their gf or bf to their class all the time.

 

The school says the gym is open to students from 6AM-12AM (just a guess as that what mine was.) All students have access to that, no problem.

 

The school then decides because of a complaint from a select minority the gym will remain open from 6AM-12AM but only a select few can work out from 7-9PM. That's BS.

 

As a policy, the school sets up checkout times for conference rooms so unless you have properly checked out the room, you do not belong there. That applies to ALL the students. Equal treatment, how about that?

 

My school gave us access to computer labs that required your ID to be scanned to enter. Only engineering students were allowed. Do I think that is unfair? No, because as an engineering major my tuition WAS HIGHER to pay for those benefits.

 

Umm, not exactly the case....

 

Are you saying that McDonald's can just stop serving all Muslims? Or all black people? All women?

You can refuse service to an individual, not a group. If it's a privately owned business, you can decide who you want to make deals with. You'll probably lose a lot of business and could be labeled as a racist, sexist, or just a plain dick.

Edited March 7, 2008 by santo=dorf