Trib article today

[fathom]

- The thought of Uribe as the starting 2B makes me want to vomit and doesn't get me excited about following White Sox baseball this season. A man can only take so much and this could break my spirit.

 

- I'm a big Quentin backer but I actually wouldn't have a huge problem if Anderson won the starting CF job and Quentin started the season in AAA. Is Anderson really very different than Quentin? He's a guy who was formerly a very good prospect and has struggled in limited major league opportunities. Anderson's minor league resume isn't quite as good but you have to take the fact that he's an outstanding defender and that he plays CF into account.

 

- This article seems to suggest that it's Owens, not Anderson or Quentin, who will be the third starting OF and that's by far the worst case scenario IMO.

 

Two comments: 1) Owens was never not the leading contender to be the 3rd outfielder. Ozzie has said all along that if he can play the way he did at the end of last year, he'd be starting. 2) If the Sox feel like Uribe is good enough to start at 2b, then the Garland trade becomes even worse.

[SoxWS05]

Lets just ignore the evidence that is well documented on how the sox deal with Boras. We avoid his players like the plague in FA, even in the draft yet you think that we will suddenly work out a long term deal with Crede because of what, faith. What exactly is the long term deal that you would offer a medicore offensive 3rd baseman who had one good year, plays good defense, and has just come off back surgery. I realize that they have invested a lot of years of development, but you realize that this is not the first time the sox have traded one of their own, or let one of their own go. Players like Wilson Alvarez, Alex Fernandez, Robin Ventura, Jack McDowell, Frank Thomas, and others would of played their career out with the sox if they only looked to the investment of draft picks and development time. Its a business, and to be perfectly honest betting 4 to 5 years on Crede for a lot of money wouldnt be all that smart.

 

 

Ohh give me a F---ing break. Frank Thomas? He was with the team for over 15 years, bad example. The others are 5 players you picked from the last 20 years, every organization in sports can pick 5 players over the last 20 years that have traded their own. How about more recent players like Buehrle and Konerko, they took somewhat of a discount to stay with the organization. I think if you made a reasonable offer to Crede for like 4 years- 28 million he would take it. This would be the best thing they could do. He plays better then good defense, it GG caliber D and watching Fields boot balls last season should make everyone apprecitate how important Joe is at 3B.

[elrockinMT]

I like the fact Anderson is in the running and actually leading the way for the 4th spot. He might even pull out the starting CF job. Brian is an excellent fielder and if he has finally put it together we might have a pretty good ballplayer on our hands. I think it's good to have the competition for open positions. At least we have options. Uribe is a good player especially on defense and he he has some pop in his bat. His problem is the ball misses the bat too often. If he could learn to be more patient we might have a .275 plus batting average and 20-25 homer guy on our hands.

[iamshack]

Two comments: 1) Owens was never not the leading contender to be the 3rd outfielder. Ozzie has said all along that if he can play the way he did at the end of last year, he'd be starting. 2) If the Sox feel like Uribe is good enough to start at 2b, then the Garland trade becomes even worse.

 

Is it the Garland trade that's worse, or the Cunningham trade?

 

I don't know about you guys, but I don't ever see Richar being an especially good hitter in this league. I hope I'm wrong.

[iamshack]

Crede picked Boras to be his agent for a reason. When you pick Scott to be your agent, you are getting yourself ready for your own big pay day. Free agency is where Boras clients make there money. He does a fantastic job of it. Crede being linked up with Scott wasn't an accident. He will NOT sign a long term deal with this club unless it was for an insane amount of money, and we all know that won't happen, and it shouldn't.

 

You know, ask Kyle Lohse how he feels about Scott Boras right now. I'd be very careful if I was Joe, because teams are starting to say "the hell with Boras" finally, and that they'd rather find another way to fill a hole than to sign one of Boras's clients to a ridiculous long-term deal.

Edited March 10, 2008 by iamshack

[SoxWS05]

Crede picked Boras to be his agent for a reason. When you pick Scott to be your agent, you are getting yourself ready for your own big pay day. Free agency is where Boras clients make there money. He does a fantastic job of it. Crede being linked up with Scott wasn't an accident. He will NOT sign a long term deal with this club unless it was for an insane amount of money, and we all know that won't happen, and it shouldn't.

 

If I'm not mistaken I believe Boras works for Crede, not the other way around. It's up to Joe where/what he signs, not the agent.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ohh give me a F---ing break. Frank Thomas? He was with the team for over 15 years, bad example. The others are 5 players you picked from the last 20 years, every organization in sports can pick 5 players over the last 20 years that have traded their own. How about more recent players like Buehrle and Konerko, they took somewhat of a discount to stay with the organization. I think if you made a reasonable offer to Crede for like 4 years- 28 million he would take it. This would be the best thing they could do. He plays better then good defense, it GG caliber D and watching Fields boot balls last season should make everyone apprecitate how important Joe is at 3B.

No one is saying Fields plays better defense at third. They are saying you have to take the whole picture into account - you seem to be ignoring his contract, his agent, his back problems, and his inconsistent offense.

 

[SoxWS05]

As things are coming together now, some of the moves made were just incredibly short sided on the organizations part. Whether it be poor scouting, poor planning, or just lack of vision, in last year, two rather valuable pieces of the system(Cunningham and Carter) for players that at this point in time are not penciled in to start in 08, yet all off-season we keep hearing how the Sox are gong for it all in 08, In 2007, the team finished 72-90. As it stands right now, the only new full time players are Swisher and Cabrera, and they are relying on an aging core.

 

Whats the plan Kenny?

 

Besides Thome and Dye, who is old? I'm pretty sure Konerko, Buerhle, Swisher, Javier, AJ, Danks, Jenks, Crede/Fields, would be considered the core of players who will be around for a while. I don't see any over the hill players there, so who is the aging core you speak of?

[sircaffey]

Ohh give me a F---ing break. Frank Thomas? He was with the team for over 15 years, bad example. The others are 5 players you picked from the last 20 years, every organization in sports can pick 5 players over the last 20 years that have traded their own. How about more recent players like Buehrle and Konerko, they took somewhat of a discount to stay with the organization. I think if you made a reasonable offer to Crede for like 4 years- 28 million he would take it. This would be the best thing they could do. He plays better then good defense, it GG caliber D and watching Fields boot balls last season should make everyone apprecitate how important Joe is at 3B.

 

Let me see...Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez, Ray Durham, Jon Garland (technically no, but they put a lot of time into him), Miguel Olivo... Yep, the Sox never let their own talent go. And all of the above players except Olivo, were much much better than Joe Crede and didn't have a highly touted prospect pushing them out.

Edited March 10, 2008 by sircaffey

[SoxWS05]

No one is saying Fields plays better defense at third. They are saying you have to take the whole picture into account - you seem to be ignoring his contract, his agent, his back problems, and his inconsistent offense.

 

 

I've touched on each one of those in previous posts in this thread. Like I said, If healthy, offer a contract and if he signs, trade Fields. In that order. I'll take inconsistent offense over un-proven offense and brutal defense.

[jackie hayes]

I've touched on each one of those in previous posts in this thread. Like I said, If healthy, offer a contract and if he signs, trade Fields. In that order. I'll take inconsistent offense over un-proven offense and brutal defense.

"If healthy" -- looking and being healthy now does NOT mean he will stay healthy, not with the type of problem he has. Unless Joe's willing to give the Sox one hell of a discount, I would never sign him for 4 years. I mean, a huge discount.

[iamshack]

As things are coming together now, some of the moves made were just incredibly short sided on the organizations part. Whether it be poor scouting, poor planning, or just lack of vision, in last year, two rather valuable pieces of the system(Cunningham and Carter) for players that at this point in time are not penciled in to start in 08, yet all off-season we keep hearing how the Sox are gong for it all in 08, In 2007, the team finished 72-90. As it stands right now, the only new full time players are Swisher and Cabrera, and they are relying on an aging core.

 

Whats the plan Kenny?

 

Well, I still have no problem with the Quentin trade- I honestly believe he will be a hell of a player for us in time. But I just don't see Richar as being anything other than a utility player. He has nice plate discipline, which is good for us, but I don't see him ever hitting enough.

[sircaffey]

I've touched on each one of those in previous posts in this thread. Like I said, If healthy, offer a contract and if he signs, trade Fields. In that order. I'll take inconsistent offense over un-proven offense and brutal defense.

 

Funny because when Crede was at the point Josh is in his career, Joe's defense was WORSE than Josh's.

[NorthSideSox72]

Funny because when Crede was at the point Josh is in his career, Joe's defense was WORSE than Josh's.

I strongly disagree.

 

I am all for the Fields era to begin, but, Fields has yet to reach even Crede's rookie defensive level. Josh may eventually be a pretty good defender over there - at least adequate anyway. But he isn't now, nor will he ever be (probably), as good as Crede defensively

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Ohh give me a F---ing break. Frank Thomas? He was with the team for over 15 years, bad example. The others are 5 players you picked from the last 20 years, every organization in sports can pick 5 players over the last 20 years that have traded their own. How about more recent players like Buehrle and Konerko, they took somewhat of a discount to stay with the organization. I think if you made a reasonable offer to Crede for like 4 years- 28 million he would take it. This would be the best thing they could do. He plays better then good defense, it GG caliber D and watching Fields boot balls last season should make everyone apprecitate how important Joe is at 3B.

 

And their agents aren't Scott Boras.

 

Seriously, that's the only point that really needs to be made and understood to end this debate.

[CWSGuy406]

Two comments: 1) Owens was never not the leading contender to be the 3rd outfielder. Ozzie has said all along that if he can play the way he did at the end of last year, he'd be starting. 2) If the Sox feel like Uribe is good enough to start at 2b, then the Garland trade becomes even worse.

 

It's funny... we very may well have a situation where our best defensive SS is playing 2B. "Past a diving Cabrera" may be a phrase we hear a bunch this year.

 

I'm with Tony -- as of right now, it's tough to see any semblance whatsoever of a plan or of a direction. What's worse is that (some) people may be blaming this on Ozzie, but if Kenny really felt strongly about the faith he had in guys like Richar and Quentin, he would've made it impossible for Ozzie to do anything else but pencil in Quentin into LF and Richar into 2B. Kenny deserves as much lashing as Ozzie does -- if you don't give Ozzie his little play-toys (Owens, Podsednik, Erstad), he'll do fine, even if it means a couple more expletive rants throughout the year (which, being quite honestly, is never a bad thing -- Ozzie opening his mouth ranks in the top ten in actual good things about this organization).

Edited March 10, 2008 by CWSGuy406

[sircaffey]

I strongly disagree.

 

I am all for the Fields era to begin, but, Fields has yet to reach even Crede's rookie defensive level. Josh may eventually be a pretty good defender over there - at least adequate anyway. But he isn't now, nor will he ever be (probably), as good as Crede defensively

 

If not worse, very comparable. Joe's .938 FPCT in his first half season left much to desire much like Fields first half season (Josh-.958). Joe's second and third seasons .964 and .965. Crede may have a little more range, but to call Fields' defense "brutal" is a bit of an exaggeration especially when considering he'll most definitely improve this next season.

Edited March 10, 2008 by sircaffey

[sircaffey]

And their agents aren't Scott Boras.

 

Seriously, that's the only point that really needs to be made and understood to end this debate.

 

Also, if two of the all-time best Sox players, Maggs and Frank, aren't going to be resigned due to health concerns, little old Joe Crede won't be (and shouldn't be).

[iamshack]

I like Carlos as well. I think it was a nice addition to the ballclub. So much in fact that unless he is unable to swing a bat, he should have the leg up on the LF job.

 

Here is my problem. Time and time again, Williams has said they are going for it THIS season, and he isn't concerned with 2009-2010. While I think that is a terrible way to run a franchise, it's what has come out his mouth. His 07 squad was terrible. The minor league system was in ranked in the mid 20's. So whats the off-season plan. Rip the system until the it's dry as a bone, and acquire players that WON"T START for the 2008 team.

So I ask again, what is the plan????

 

Simply because Carlos doesn't break camp as the starting LF doesn't mean he won't help this team win this year.

 

I think he's going for it this year as he always does, but he also realizes the need to acquire young, cheap players with high upside because of the large core of high-salaried players on out team.

[SoxWS05]

And their agents aren't Scott Boras.

 

Seriously, that's the only point that really needs to be made and understood to end this debate.

 

 

Geez, get over who his agent is, it's Crede's decision not Boras's. He signed with Boras years ago when his upside was "superstar" level. I think we all know what crede is and what he's capable of. I would say he's easily worth 7-8 million a year.

[SoxWS05]

Also, if two of the all-time best Sox players, Maggs and Frank, aren't going to be resigned due to health concerns, little old Joe Crede won't be (and shouldn't be).

 

Crede is 29, hardly old. The average age of the Red Sox is 30.2.

[southsideirish71]

Ohh give me a F---ing break. Frank Thomas? He was with the team for over 15 years, bad example. The others are 5 players you picked from the last 20 years, every organization in sports can pick 5 players over the last 20 years that have traded their own. How about more recent players like Buehrle and Konerko, they took somewhat of a discount to stay with the organization. I think if you made a reasonable offer to Crede for like 4 years- 28 million he would take it. This would be the best thing they could do. He plays better then good defense, it GG caliber D and watching Fields boot balls last season should make everyone apprecitate how important Joe is at 3B.

 

Joe Crede couldn't hold Ventura's jock, yet we let him go. Ventura of the actual Gold Glove defense ( 6 of them) and the real offense. Yet he could go. Yet you are shocked that they are talking about moving Crede for a guy they drafted number one, seem pretty high on, and showed offensive promise.

Edited March 10, 2008 by southsideirish71

[sircaffey]

Crede is 29, hardly old. The average age of the Red Sox is 30.2.

 

I wasn't calling Joe Crede old... Sorry, "little ole Joe Crede."

[SoxWS05]

Joe Crede couldn't hold Ventura's jock, yet we let him go. Ventura of the actual Gold Glove defense ( 6 of them) and the real offense. Yet he could go. Yet you are shocked that they are talking about moving him for a guy they drafted number one, seem pretty high on, and showed offensive promise.

 

And they let Ventura go for the same reasons everyone wants Crede gone, health concerns and possible declining ability. Ventura had some great years after he left the Sox and Crede still has some ahead of him. Just don't want to see them do it again.

[bigruss]

And they let Ventura go for the same reasons everyone wants Crede gone, health concerns and possible declining ability. Ventura had some great years after he left the Sox and Crede still has some ahead of him. Just don't want to see them do it again.

Ventura's Great Years >>>>>>>> Crede's Good Year