sircaffey Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:01 PM) And they let Ventura go for the same reasons everyone wants Crede gone, health concerns and possible declining ability. Ventura had some great years after he left the Sox and Crede still has some ahead of him. Just don't want to see them do it again. I don't want Joe gone because of those reasons. I want Joe gone because we have a more talented cheaper option ready to step in. Whatever cash we give to Joe can't be given to something we actually need. It's smart business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:51 PM) Geez, get over who his agent is, it's Crede's decision not Boras's. He signed with Boras years ago when his upside was "superstar" level. I think we all know what crede is and what he's capable of. I would say he's easily worth 7-8 million a year. You're right, that's is probably what he's worth. He's going to get $10-12 mill a year on the open market though over 5 years. And, BTW, it is essentially Boras' decision; Crede does ultimately have the final say, but Crede made the initial decision to hire Boras in the first place, and Crede hired him to make sure Crede gets a lot of money. That's what Boras is best at doing, and that involves going to free agency and finding the dumbest team on the market. Crede's not coming back. (and his upside has never been "superstar" level; you have to be able to draw a walk to do that. That's why Fields can be a special player and all Crede's ever been capable of was being a good regular whose entire game depended upon his average) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 --Quentin "needs a major rebound to beat out Brian Anderson for the backup outfield spot" so owens is the starter??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Ventura's Great Years >>>>>>>> Crede's Good Year Ventura's best year with Sox: 34 HR 105 RBI .368 OBP .520 SLG .287 AVG Crede's best year with Sox : 30 HR 94 RBI .323 OBP .506 SLG .283 AVG Sure Ventura was awesome and everybody's favorite but not exactly Ventura>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 03:15 PM) Ventura's best year with Sox: 34 HR 105 RBI .368 OBP .520 SLG .287 AVG Crede's best year with Sox : 30 HR 94 RBI .323 OBP .506 SLG .283 AVG Sure Ventura was awesome and everybody's favorite but not exactly Ventura>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crede Adrian Beltre's best year was one of the best a 3Bman has ever had, and yet I'd still take Robin over him in a heartbeat. One season does not make a career; how about doing something like comparing career averages... Ventura's average season - .267 23 HR 50 XBH .362/.444/.806 with a career 114 OPS+ Crede's average season - .259 25 HR 55 XBH .305/.446/.751 with a career 92 OPS+ Ventura was a well above average hitter and one of the best defensive 3Bman of the past 25 years; Crede's a below average hitter and is just fine defensively Ventura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:15 PM) Ventura's best year with Sox: 34 HR 105 RBI .368 OBP .520 SLG .287 AVG Crede's best year with Sox : 30 HR 94 RBI .323 OBP .506 SLG .283 AVG Sure Ventura was awesome and everybody's favorite but not exactly Ventura>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crede Different era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 03:15 PM) Ventura's best year with Sox: 34 HR 105 RBI .368 OBP .520 SLG .287 AVG Crede's best year with Sox : 30 HR 94 RBI .323 OBP .506 SLG .283 AVG Sure Ventura was awesome and everybody's favorite but not exactly Ventura>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crede How many times did Joe put up those numbers. Take a gander at what Robin did again, and please take off the Crede's Crew blinders. Ventura's OPS+ numbers average over his career are better than Joe's best season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Adrian Beltre's best year was one of the best a 3Bman has ever had, and yet I'd still take Robin over him in a heartbeat. One season does not make a career; how about doing something like comparing career averages... Ventura's average season - .267 23 HR 50 XBH .362/.444/.806 with a career 114 OPS+ Crede's average season - .259 25 HR 55 XBH .305/.446/.751 with a career 92 OPS+ Ventura was a well above average hitter and one of the best defensive 3Bman of the past 25 years; Crede's a below average hitter and is just fine defensively Ventura >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crede Yeah you're right below average hitters hit 30 HR and 90 RBI. All I'm trying to point out is in 2008 Crede will help the White Sox win more games then Josh Fields. That's the most important thing right? Winning games in '08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) a few points here.... 1.) fathom - you know as well as i do that KW saying crede doesnt need to be traded means nothing...it could be simply posturing to get other teams interested (in fact, ditto the fact that the organization is saying uribe will be the starting 2b). that said i think the sox are ready for fields to play everyday, and they wont send him to AAA despite what KW said at sox fest. in addition, i have no qualms holding on to crede for this year ...we probably won't get jack for him anyways... and the 2nd round compensation pick may be worth more than what we get in return 2.) Im maybe the biggest carlos quentin believer on this board, but if the guy is injured, he is injured. I like the fact that Anderson is out there fighting for a job, and i would rather have him out there than owens. Its my hope that ozzie would play him in center and swisher in left, but this spring its been the other way around, but im pretty sure thats just to get swish reps in center (which im all for). The way I look at it right now, this has become a different race than it was at the beginning of spring. I think Owens probably makes the team for sure (hopefully as a back up, and i just dont see the sox sending him to AAA simply because i think ozzie will want a true leadoff hitter at least somewhere on the roster) and i think Quentin and Anderson are now fighting it out for the final spot with the loser going to AAA. Id be fine if either makes it, but more of me hopes Quentin wins it, but if Anderson continues to look this good for the rest of spring, and Quentin is hurt or not playing well, then im fine with BA. 3.) Crede is not going to accept a multiyear deal mid year, thats just not how boars operates, and we'd be dumb to even offer the possibility. The silver slugger he won was a joke...his average that year was a complete fluke, and his obp was still only .320 or something. Yes he was clutch and we all love him and his D, but its time to move on. 4.) For those who think crede will have more value at the trade deadline, I think you are wrong. When Mackowiak and Iguchi were traded, we got A ball relievers in return, because they were FA at the end of the year. Crede may be a slightly more valuable player, but he won't get much more in return at the trade deadline unless hes playing everyday and hitting HR at a rate like he did in 06 (unlikely) 5.) as for 2b, im sick of seeing uribe, so i want Alexei or even Richar there, but Richar has to be healthy and prove he can be better than uribe (which he really hasnt done yet). I think 2b will be a revolving door all year with uribe probably getting alot of time late in games taking over for fields and giving him days off, as well as O cab days off, and pablo probably playing alot too. I dont think the Organization is ready to give Ramirez the everyday job, but if he keeps playing like this he may earn it Edited March 10, 2008 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 03:24 PM) Yeah you're right below average hitters hit 30 HR and 90 RBI. All I'm trying to point out is in 2008 Crede will help the White Sox win more games then Josh Fields. That's the most important thing right? Winning games in '08. Brady Anderson is a Hall of Famer according to your criteria; in fact, he's one of the best hitters of all time. How many guys in baseball history can say that they hit 50 home runs? Not many And what Tony said too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 And A lot of us think that is incorrect. Well you know what they say about opinions and assholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:24 PM) Yeah you're right below average hitters hit 30 HR and 90 RBI. All I'm trying to point out is in 2008 Crede will help the White Sox win more games then Josh Fields. That's the most important thing right? Winning games in '08. Crede did that once in his career. Yet you think that makes it an automatic lock to repeat. He had a few years of action before that in the majors where he didnt produce at that level. What will he produce at, the one season, or the few season he produced before it. You will argue that he has matured as a hitter and this will be what we will see from now on. But this of course doesnt apply to the new 3rd baseman. He will suck forever. He hit 23 homers over a shorter season, and had 67 RBIs in 373 ABs. Yet he will never get better. Why. Do you realize that projected over a season, the production numbers from power and RBI are better than Crede's best season. Crede's Crew is quickly becoming more of a homer base than the Legend of Aaron Rowand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:30 PM) Well you know what they say about opinions and assholes. Or what they say about Ad Hominem attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 04:30 PM) Well you know what they say about opinions and assholes. this year is only part of the equation...look Fields had a higher average and more HR in 100 games last year than crede has had in his career except for one year ....also, crede is gone after this year, it stinks that we wont deal with boras, but thats the way it is....josh is cheap and we have control of him for 4 more years...he is the future 3b and is ready to play, and if we can get something for crede we do it now Edited March 10, 2008 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Crede did that once in his career. Yet you think that makes it an automatic lock to repeat. He had a few years of action before that in the majors where he didnt produce at that level. What will he produce at, the one season, or the few season he produced before it. You will argue that he has matured as a hitter and this will be what we will see from now on. But this of course doesnt apply to the new 3rd baseman. He will suck forever. He hit 23 homers over a shorter season, and had 67 RBIs in 373 ABs. Yet he will never get better. Why. Do you realize that projected over a season, the production numbers from power and RBI are better than Crede's best season. Crede's Crew is quickly becoming more of a homer base than the Legend of Aaron Rowand. I do think they are pretty equal at the plate but the difference is in the field. Fields just stinks at 3b, it's just that simple. It's a pretty important position to be good at and he stinks. I value Crede's D and to many people under value it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:43 PM) I do think they are pretty equal at the plate but the difference is in the field. Fields just stinks at 3b, it's just that simple. It's a pretty important position to be good at and he stinks. I value Crede's D and to many people under value it. You should take a look at Crede's first taste in the majors with regards to fielding. You would of run him out of town with pitchforks. More errors in less games, yikes. Thank god we let him get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:46 PM) You should take a look at Crede's first taste in the majors with regards to fielding. You would of run him out of town with pitchforks. More errors in less games, yikes. Thank god we let him get better. Crede was born with a gold glove on his hand. Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Or what they say about Ad Hominem attacks. No there just comes a point where the original disagreement gets lost. For the White Sox to win as many games as possible in 2008 Crede>Fields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 You should take a look at Crede's first taste in the majors with regards to fielding. You would of run him out of town with pitchforks. More errors in less games, yikes. Thank god we let him get better. Fields can work out those kinks in AAA, while Crede wins GG's and SS awards. Face it Crede is starting and Fields will be in AAA come opening day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:51 PM) Fields can work out those kinks in AAA, while Crede wins GG's and SS awards. Face it Crede is starting and Fields will be in AAA come opening day. How can you project a Silver Slugger award or equal offensive output when he has done it exactly once in his career. When he wins a gold glove let us know. Owens and Uribe will start as well, doesnt make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWS05 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) How can you project a Silver Slugger award or equal offensive output when he has done it exactly once in his career. When he wins a gold glove let us know. Owens and Uribe will start as well, doesnt make it right. Just because Crede doesn't have any GG's doesn't make it right. It doesn't really matter because he wouldn't be able to get the GG on over his World Series ring anyway. Edited March 10, 2008 by SoxWS05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eickevinmorris Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 You are running in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Joe Crede > All. They'll need to open a new wing on the HOF just for him. The rest of those bums are unfit to be in the same room as Joe "Perennial Gold Glover and Silver Slugger" Crede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(KevinM @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 02:59 PM) You are running in circles. We are the worst organization in baseball. Edited March 10, 2008 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE(SoxWS05 @ Mar 10, 2008 -> 04:57 PM) Just because Crede doesn't have any GG's doesn't make it right. It doesn't really matter because he wouldn't be able to get the GG on over his World Series ring anyway. the awards arguement is a two way street....just as joe may have deserved a GG in the past, he also didn't deserve teh silver slugger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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