North v South

[NorthSideSox72]

Interesting that the northerns were the first to propose violence

I recall that one of the major museums in Memphis, if you go to the area describing the Battle of Memphis and the Civil War, the exhibit is actually called The War of Northern Aggression.

 

[Texsox]

I recall that one of the major museums in Memphis, if you go to the area describing the Battle of Memphis and the Civil War, the exhibit is actually called The War of Northern Aggression.

 

That term The War of Northern Aggression also gets bandied about concerning events here starting in 1846

[jackie hayes]

I think there are two different sliding scales at work here. One is the size of the community, as you point out. The other are regional differences. If you want to compare similarly sized cities... Memphis and Milwaukee. I've spent a lot of time in both. The pace of life in Memphis is a lot slower than Milwaukee. You can also pick two cities in the same region of different size and get that - Chicago is faster than Des Moines, for example. I think both sliding scales have an effect.

I think it has much more to do with the general area. Milwaukee is very close to Chicago, for instance. Indianapolis is further removed from a massive urban area. I lived in Dallas for a while, and I don't think life there is any 'slower' than in Chicago. And Austin is friggin nuts. (Though, college town, so that is always a difference.) I just don't buy this connection of pace and geography.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think it has much more to do with the general area. Milwaukee is very close to Chicago, for instance. Indianapolis is further removed from a massive urban area. I lived in Dallas for a while, and I don't think life there is any 'slower' than in Chicago. And Austin is friggin nuts. (Though, college town, so that is always a difference.) I just don't buy this connection of pace and geography.

OK. I feel like its there, but its all subjective.

 

[Heads22]

Which?

 

I lived in Iowa for 5 years. My opinion is that the culture is an interesting mix of southern and midwestern. I realize the southern part doesn't make sense geographically, but... it was like midwestern friendliness mixed with southern hospitality. They were in less of a hurry than midwesterners though, more like my experiences in the south. But a very strong, midwestern work ethic and attitude.

 

Southern illinois? Just feels like the south to me.

 

Maybe it's all the old people.

 

I understand what you're saying though. It's just sort of calm here. If a guy flips a tractor, it makes the news.

[southsider2k5]

I think it has much more to do with the general area. Milwaukee is very close to Chicago, for instance. Indianapolis is further removed from a massive urban area. I lived in Dallas for a while, and I don't think life there is any 'slower' than in Chicago. And Austin is friggin nuts. (Though, college town, so that is always a difference.) I just don't buy this connection of pace and geography.

 

I wouldn't compare Indy to most places. It seems like a really big small town to me. I didn't really like it there much at all.

[Texsox]

I wouldn't compare Indy to most places. It seems like a really big small town to me. I didn't really like it there much at all.

What is all of them?

 

Correct, please select . . .

 

I'll take boring Indiana Cities for $400 Alex . . .

[southsider2k5]

What is all of them?

 

Correct, please select . . .

 

I'll take boring Indiana Cities for $400 Alex . . .

 

In all seriousness, I don't care what anyone says, Indiana has some of the ugliest racism in the union. Kap can help me relate a college story sitting in a gas station in a small-nameless Indiana town. It was us two, and another member of the track team, who happened to be Africian American. Kap stopped to fill up his car with gas, and when he went into the station to pay the guy behind the desk and his buddy in front of the desk who he was talking to, were too busy staring outside at our friend to take Kap's money. I felt uncomfortable, and I wasn't even the target of the stares. I won't even get into the ignorant townie stories that I could tell you from people who lived in the town where I went to college. It was brutal, and made me never want to raise a family in a place like that. I learned that diversity is key to a community, and raising a worldly family.

[chimpy2121]

I've been to gas stations that are off of I-10, between Tallahassee and Jacksonville, not even acknowledge us because we had an African American with us.

[Heads22]

I've been to gas stations that are off of I-10, between Tallahassee and Jacksonville, not even acknowledge us because we had an African American with us.

 

You see, I can't even fathom something like that.

[Texsox]

BTW, I hope in relating these stories and debating this issue, we all can agree that racism is alive and well throughout America.

 

Sadly, we seem to minor in the major issues involved and major in the minor. The slightest slip of the tongue, or poorly phrased statement ruins a person's career while bigger issues are ignored.

[southsider2k5]

I have no doubt that racism is alive today.

[knightni]

The last "Native American" that I met, was racist against jewish and black people.

[Jenksismyhero]

I have no doubt that racism is alive today.

 

Should we really be basing an opinion on whose worse based on one incident? I mean, I know that's human nature, but there are assholes everywhere, it doesn't mean the town/village/region/state is the same.

 

I agree with the statement that racism exists everywhere, though I would follow that up by saying racism as a societal issue, IMO, is about as low as we can expect it to get. There will always be some form of it practiced by ignorant asses, there's just no way to get rid of it entirely. But from my view, in my mid-twenties, going through school and work in completely diverse environments, I just don't see it. Obviously where I have lived/worked is probably not where it's going to happen, but 50 years ago I would have seen it daily, at work, at school, on the train, on the street, etc. I'll prolly get flamed for saying that, but so be it.

 

 

 

[Mplssoxfan]

I think that we, as a nation, have made great strides in curbing racism. I also feel that there is much work left to be done.

[southsider2k5]

Should we really be basing an opinion on whose worse based on one incident? I mean, I know that's human nature, but there are assholes everywhere, it doesn't mean the town/village/region/state is the same.

 

I agree with the statement that racism exists everywhere, though I would follow that up by saying racism as a societal issue, IMO, is about as low as we can expect it to get. There will always be some form of it practiced by ignorant asses, there's just no way to get rid of it entirely. But from my view, in my mid-twenties, going through school and work in completely diverse environments, I just don't see it. Obviously where I have lived/worked is probably not where it's going to happen, but 50 years ago I would have seen it daily, at work, at school, on the train, on the street, etc. I'll prolly get flamed for saying that, but so be it.

 

Would you like more instances I have seen in my life?

 

I can talk about the race riots I saw in my hometown my senior year of High School.

 

I can talk about the town I saw where multiple people I knew could name every non-white family in it.

 

I can talk about the town I saw where when I was in college there, someone was having the first mixed baby in its known history.

 

I can talk about the Klan capitol of Indiana.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I think that we, as a nation, have made great strides in curbing racism. I also feel that there is much work left to be done.

 

What more can be done? Any public figure that even remotely hints at it is thrown into the muck, usually ending careers or significantly effecting them. Affirmative-action and requirements for minority contracts have essentially eliminated access issues. Education/community issues are obviously heavily slanted towards certain races, but really what more can be done to fix that? That's not a racism issue so much as a class issue. Work discrimination occurs all the time (I work at a firm now with some really bizarre and off the wall type cases - the racism is SO obvious it's not even funny), but laws are in place to protect/remedy those situations. Voting might be an issue because of the way district/community lines are drawn - ensuring that each vote counts equally is very important. But even today I think it'd be tough to find issues there.

 

Again I know racism exists, but I dunno what else we can do about it. There are just ignorant people out there who will do it/accept it/promote it no matter what.

[Jenksismyhero]

Would you like more instances I have seen in my life?

 

I can talk about the race riots I saw in my hometown my senior year of High School.

 

I can talk about the town I saw where multiple people I knew could name every non-white family in it.

 

I can talk about the town I saw where when I was in college there, someone was having the first mixed baby in its known history.

 

I can talk about the Klan capitol of Indiana.

 

I saw a bunch of Muslim hijackers kill 3k plus people in one day.

 

I know of the groups of Muslims that exist for the sole purpose of killing people from the Western world.

 

Etc, etc.

 

thus, every Muslim in the world is a terrorist who wants to bring an end to America.

 

If you've got specific instances of a group of people doing something and you say the group of people is racist, fine (i.e. I saw a KKK rally, KKK members are therefore racist). But you shouldn't expand that to say the whole town is racist or the whole state is racist or the whole northern region of the country is racist. That just seems silly to me.

[Mplssoxfan]

What more can be done? Any public figure that even remotely hints at it is thrown into the muck, usually ending careers or significantly effecting them. Affirmative-action and requirements for minority contracts have essentially eliminated access issues. Education/community issues are obviously heavily slanted towards certain races, but really what more can be done to fix that? That's not a racism issue so much as a class issue. Work discrimination occurs all the time (I work at a firm now with some really bizarre and off the wall type cases - the racism is SO obvious it's not even funny), but laws are in place to protect/remedy those situations. Voting might be an issue because of the way district/community lines are drawn - ensuring that each vote counts equally is very important. But even today I think it'd be tough to find issues there.

 

Again I know racism exists, but I dunno what else we can do about it. There are just ignorant people out there who will do it/accept it/promote it no matter what.

I think you misunderstood my intent, so allow me to rephrase.

 

I think that we, as a people, have made great strides in curbing racism. I also feel that there is much work left to be done.

 

Not talking about the Government, but about individuals.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I saw a bunch of Muslim hijackers kill 3k plus people in one day.

 

I know of the groups of Muslims that exist for the sole purpose of killing people from the Western world.

 

Etc, etc.

 

thus, every Muslim in the world is a terrorist who wants to bring an end to America.

 

If you've got specific instances of a group of people doing something and you say the group of people is racist, fine (i.e. I saw a KKK rally, KKK members are therefore racist). But you shouldn't expand that to say the whole town is racist or the whole state is racist or the whole northern region of the country is racist. That just seems silly to me.

 

To me instances make up a trend. Trends are what generally define areas. If you want to take that to mean ALL, you are severely missing the whole point of the discussion. There isn't one single person in this thread who has said that every single member of any grouping is racist. You are making extremes out of something that isn't even there.

[knightni]

Martinsville, IN is the founding place of the KKK, IIRC

 

There's also a strong contingent of KKK members over in Osceola, IN just southeast of me.

[Jenksismyhero]

To me instances make up a trend. Trends are what generally define areas. If you want to take that to mean ALL, you are severely missing the whole point of the discussion. There isn't one single person in this thread who has said that every single member of any grouping is racist. You are making extremes out of something that isn't even there.

 

 

Perhaps I am. I thought the whole thread was about classifiying a large group of people based on the actions of a very small minority.

[vandy125]

Here is an interesting Washington Post map of hate groups in the US that I just ran across. It fits in pretty well:

US Hate Groups

[lostfan]

I think that we, as a nation, have made great strides in curbing racism. I also feel that there is much work left to be done.

Is this country collectively less racist than it was 20 years ago? Yes.

[lostfan]

Anyways one question I wonder, maybe some of you history buffs and answer this but right after the Civil War ended, and into the 20th Century, the South were primarily Democrat and African-Americans were primarily Republican, at least in Iowa. Now it's the complete reversal. Anyone have a reason for that?

Well, that is kind of complicated to explain but I'll try and summarize it, please forgive me if I miss a couple of details though. The Republicans were basically all of the abolitionists and pro-war politicians and the southern white Democrats were the pro-slavery/pro-seccession people and the ones that passed all the Jim Crow laws to deliberately disenfranchise black voters during the Reconstruction because they were a new and powerful voting bloc that would threaten their status quo. Around this whole time (probably Kansas-Nebraska act but I forget) the Democratic party split, and all of the pro-war Democrats left the party for the Republicans. So in a nutshell the Democratic party is basically responsible for f***ing blacks and setting them back 100 years and they enabled white supremacist groups to come about because they ran out the federal troops the gov't needed to support the rights of blacks. But...

 

...as I'm sure you know, this started to end around the civil rights era in the '60s when Democratic leaders like Truman and Kennedy started supporting civil rights which obviously upset the racists (yeah, not a better word that is less inflammatory since it's true) in the South and left them to temporarily split from the party, and at the same time drawing blacks into it. So Richard Nixon saw this happening and used it to his advantage, he appealed to the white conservatives (and, um, racists) in the South and they started voting Republican, and eventually got settled back into their old ways without having to worry about their party supporting civil rights. And it worked pretty damn effectively, so ever since then, the South has usually been red made up of entirely red states.

 

Oh and to address the thread's general topic, it is still racially polarized as far as that goes, it might not be completely obvious like it was several decades ago but it's still a reality. Pretending like it's not is kind of silly, and how many racists are in the North is basically irrelevant.

Edited March 15, 2008 by lostfan