Harry Chappas Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 01:57 PM) Dont get your hopes up. The minute Prancer 2.0 is ready to run, he will be inserted as the starter. No matter how good any of the other players are doing. THe florida Marlin offense must run, even in the AL I guess. I would agree with this but I hope that Pods and Erstad circa 2007 have taught Ozzeroo that while speed does not slump it does sustain naggining injuries which render it useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 10:20 AM) Here's a few reasons why I would prefer Swish leading off. First and foremost, he has a high OBP. Second, he takes pitches. I believe he was 7th in the AL in average pitches per PA. Also Cabrera is just and damn good number 2 hitter. If Swish gets on base more often to lead off the game, as his OBP indicates he will probably do, then you have a very good handler of the bat up there to move him into scoring position. You also have more instances of having a runner on base with no outs with Swish leading off. If Cabrera leads off and doesn't get on base, wish is more likely to happen, then Swish gets on ... you probably have a man on first, one out for Thome as opposed to a man in scoring position, one out. Of course, I'm aware the OC will get on base as well, but I'm talking about how Swish's superior OBP should come into play more often and more in the Sox favor with him leading off. This could be like the old Frank Thomas days where pitchers throw tons of pitches in the first inning and then don't get out of the sixth inning, and we beat up on bullpens. Its pretty easy to envision Swisher, Cabrera, and Thome seeing 25 pitches in an inning. They might not produce anything, but those kind of innings could be the difference between a starter going into the eighth, or getting lifted in the sixth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguy79 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 02:01 PM) I would agree with this but I hope that Pods and Erstad circa 2007 have taught Ozzeroo that while speed does not slump it does sustain naggining injuries which render it useless. Good point, I am starting to get optimistic but also not feeling good about hanging our hat on BA again, we still have way too many question marks to have any comfort. But it seems like the team is starting to get it together and BA and the team in general is out to prove something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 True the OBP is huge, but Swish in the leadoff spot is a waste of his talent. Im assuming part of the reason his OBP and power numbers are what they are is because he was hitting in the middle of a lineup, usually with runner on base head of him. That changes everything. I dont think you make him leadoff and expect 25 HRS and .380 OBP by defualt, I think you could expect that if he was hitting 5th or 6th, but leadoff is a waste of his power and ability to drive in runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 People always talk about how many HRs Swish will hit and his power. So why would anyone be happy about the possibility of him leading off if this is true? Seems like a waste to me. Thought OCab was going to possibly be leading off? I rather like the idea of Ozuna at Second and leading off at this point, as crazy as it sounds. Man, I hope Owens makes it. That said, I really want to see BA on this team, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(joeynach @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 02:12 PM) True the OBP is huge, but Swish in the leadoff spot is a waste of his talent. Im assuming part of the reason his OBP and power numbers are what they are is because he was hitting in the middle of a lineup, usually with runner on base head of him. That changes everything. I dont think you make him leadoff and expect 25 HRS and .380 OBP by defualt, I think you could expect that if he was hitting 5th or 6th, but leadoff is a waste of his power and ability to drive in runs. He's only leading off once a game. I really don't think it's that big of a deal. Hell, there will be a lot of games where Thome leads off an inning more than Swisher. Is that really that big of a deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 1. Swisher (LF) 2. Cabrera (SS) 3. Thome (DH) 4. Konerko (1B) 5. Dye (RF) 6. Pierzynski © 7. Crede / Fields (3B) 8. Anderson (CF) 9. Uribe / Richar / Ramirez (2B) I can live with that PS: If Swisher and Owens BOTH make the roster, where does Swisher bat? He was a 2 or 3 last year and Cabrera is a 2. So does Swisher bat 3 and move the rest down? (THome 4, Konerko 5, ect...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) Hell, there will be a lot of games where Thome leads off an inning more than Swisher. Is that really that big of a deal? A few years back i was playing a computer baseball game and for just that reason I batted my #4 guy leadoff. Dont rmember how it turned out. but I think her had a good year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) He's only leading off once a game. I really don't think it's that big of a deal. Hell, there will be a lot of games where Thome leads off an inning more than Swisher. Is that really that big of a deal? It's more of the case that Swish is going to have Anderson/Uribe hitting in front of him, while Thome will always have OC and Swish ahead of him. I'd prefer Swish to be at least batting 2nd so he has some more rbi opps, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Let's face it. BA playing so well this spring REALLY f'ed up their plans for this season. Maybe ina good way, maybe bad. But this is NOT what they planned. They clearly planed on their 4 OFs being Dye, Owens, Quentin, and Swisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 02:49 PM) Let's face it. BA playing so well this spring REALLY f'ed up their plans for this season. Maybe ina good way, maybe bad. But this is NOT what they planned. They clearly planed on their 4 OFs being Dye, Owens, Quentin, and Swisher. If BA is playing himself into a starting CF spot and Swish moves to LF/1B, then that's a good problem to have. Carlos Quentin is eventually going to be in RF, but he may have to platoon a bit with Thome or spend some time in Charlotte. Now there's a guy who can't catch a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 If Swisher could play the Sizemore type lead-off role (less SB, bit more power), then I'll take it. Gladly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) 1. Swisher (LF) 2. Cabrera (SS) 3. Thome (DH) 4. Konerko (1B) 5. Dye (RF) 6. Pierzynski © 7. Crede / Fields (3B) 8. Anderson (CF) 9. Uribe / Richar / Ramirez (2B) I can live with that PS: If Swisher and Owens BOTH make the roster, where does Swisher bat? He was a 2 or 3 last year and Cabrera is a 2. So does Swisher bat 3 and move the rest down? (THome 4, Konerko 5, ect...) I don't know...I was under the impression that if Owens is the leadoff guy, Swisher would probably be 6th....which I'm not too crazy about. I like Swish leading off. I have no problem with it. He'll have some RBI's missed, but he'll have a lot more AB's. He's just the kinda of guy I want getting that extra AB in a game when we're tied or down. If he bats 6th he loses approx 90AB's from the leadoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 03:30 PM) I don't know...I was under the impression that if Owens is the leadoff guy, Swisher would probably be 6th....which I'm not too crazy about. I like Swish leading off. I have no problem with it. He'll have some RBI's missed, but he'll have a lot more AB's. He's just the kinda of guy I want getting that extra AB in a game when we're tied or down. If he bats 6th he loses approx 90AB's from the leadoff spot. Right, and his decreased RBIs could be made up by Thome, PK and Dye having more runners on base than if say Owens doesn't commit to increasing his OBP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 03:38 PM) Right, and his decreased RBIs could be made up by Thome, PK and Dye having more runners on base than if say Owens doesn't commit to increasing his OBP Or by himself too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Owens out of the starting lineup and Swisher in the lead off spot? Whoa. I wasn't sure I could still get this excited about this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 02:04 PM) This could be like the old Frank Thomas days where pitchers throw tons of pitches in the first inning and then don't get out of the sixth inning, and we beat up on bullpens. Its pretty easy to envision Swisher, Cabrera, and Thome seeing 25 pitches in an inning. They might not produce anything, but those kind of innings could be the difference between a starter going into the eighth, or getting lifted in the sixth. Even though those teams were feast or famine, i loved the way those teams would just take and take. i think This offense is a bit more dynamic than teams of the past. Also if Josh starts at the hot corner I would be willing to gamble he steals 20 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(beautox @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 04:59 PM) Even though those teams were feast or famine, i loved the way those teams would just take and take. i think This offense is a bit more dynamic than teams of the past. Also if Josh starts at the hot corner I would be willing to gamble he steals 20 this year. Also a future OF of Quentin/Anderson/Swisher excites me especially if Brian has his head on straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Look I don't know if it's an ideal scenario, but it's probably the best one we have currently. O-Cab was always an option to lead-off, but Ozzie has his mind set on using at #2. He's great at making contact, and hardly strikes out, so the ball's going to be in play a lot when he's up. Obviously putting Swisher at the leadoff spot, takes him away from RBI opportunities. But I think there's still obviously going to be times where he's lower down in the order whenever Ozuna or Owens is playing. So he'll still get some chances every now and then to knock some runners in. He's got the best OBP on this team besides Thome, he'll take a lot of pitches, and we need more hitters like that, as SS2K7 said. Kind of like the Oakland A's style of hitting where you can get to the bullpen nice and early. How many times in 2006 did the Sox rally against teams late in games, when the other team had to use 3-4 guys in the pen? I'm thinking that's what the Sox want to try and do again as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) He's only leading off once a game. I really don't think it's that big of a deal. Hell, there will be a lot of games where Thome leads off an inning more than Swisher. Is that really that big of a deal? The he's only leading off once argument has zero legs because the dynamic of the lineup still stays the same. He will still hit in front of most of our RBI guys and will have low OBP weaker hitters in front of him no matter what. He will have less RBI opportunities than he would lower in the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 13, 2008 -> 05:30 PM) The he's only leading off once argument has zero legs because the dynamic of the lineup still stays the same. He will still hit in front of most of our RBI guys and will have low OBP weaker hitters in front of him no matter what. He will have less RBI opportunities than he would lower in the order. That's fine, because he'll have more opportunities to drive himself in throughout the year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Interesting idea. Maybe it's the spark this team needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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