Obama's Pastor

[kapkomet]

This thread WAS civilized. There is no need to call anyone an "oreo", nor is there any reason for the laughable hyperbole that will only serve to enflame people. Tone it down please, lest other actions become necessary.

 

Nevermind...

Edited March 18, 2008 by kapkomet

[mr_genius]

You saying that no one is allowed to criticize black people if they aren't black. You said it, its hyperbolic, I pointed out that its inflammatory and doesn't add to the dialogue. If you heard it from some talking head, does that make it better?

 

But CNN said they were a race relations expert and I believe the guest had a PHD in sociology. I'm just going along with experts on this one, northside72

 

 

[lostfan]

If he said he never heard it, and then said it did, how is reporting that 'spin'?

He was asked specifically about the 9-11 comments several times and he said he wasn't there, in his speech he said he's heard Wright make comments he didn't agree with, or be a sharp critic of U.S. policy since he's been attending the church, or words to that effect. Trying to find a lie in there is in fact spin.

[kapkomet]

FOX is already beginning the spin. Even though he said he never heard any racist / anti-america comments (even though he said he wasnt present at the SPECIFIC comments brought up over the weekend) he is now admitting to having heard them (which he said he didnt)

who is HE? Obama?

[lostfan]

If you look at my post again, there is a section at the top with a quote. It looks like this:

That is what I was responding too. Now which part of my post goes against that? He said the guy was just like a black white supremacist shown in a sketch. He also used a racial slur, oreo, when referring to the CNN guest.

The last part of your post just seemed unnecessary and out of place.

[EvilMonkey]

He was asked specifically about the 9-11 comments several times and he said he wasn't there, in his speech he said he's heard Wright make comments he didn't agree with, or be a sharp critic of U.S. policy since he's been attending the church, or words to that effect. Trying to find a lie in there is in fact spin.

And that answer in itself isn't 'spin'?

[HuskyCaucasian]

who is HE? Obama?

yes

[NorthSideSox72]

NSS, mr_genius wasn't the one who (originally) said "oreo"... it was AngelasDaddy.

I quoted two posts, referring to both. Angela's Oreo post, and Mr. G's hyperbole.

 

But I guess CNN had some expert saying this was the case. Therefore it must be true. Sorry, Mr. G, I take it back. I know how you love your CNN!

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

He was asked specifically about the 9-11 comments several times and he said he wasn't there, in his speech he said he's heard Wright make comments he didn't agree with, or be a sharp critic of U.S. policy since he's been attending the church, or words to that effect. Trying to find a lie in there is in fact spin.

ding ding ding

[kapkomet]

What is the big deal? Maybe I'm missing something here. Obama's claiming that he's never been there when Wright said something like this that's rhetoric? So what? He's heard it, his speech today says he has, but who cares whether or not he was attending when things like this were said? Obama hasn't been at that church for at least his time in office if I had to guess, right? What's the big deal here?

[kapkomet]

I quoted two posts, referring to both. Angela's Oreo post, and Mr. G's hyperbole.

 

But I guess CNN had some expert saying this was the case. Therefore it must be true. Sorry, Mr. G, I take it back. I know how you love your CNN!

Yea, oops. I'm there now.

 

[lostfan]

And that answer in itself isn't 'spin'?

No, not really... trying to take one specific incident and lump it in together with something from over a period of time that would almost seem to conflict but really doesn't, and be deliberately vague about it?

[NorthSideSox72]

What is the big deal? Maybe I'm missing something here. Obama's claiming that he's never been there when Wright said something like this that's rhetoric? So what? He's heard it, his speech today says he has, but who cares whether or not he was attending when things like this were said? Obama hasn't been at that church for at least his time in office if I had to guess, right? What's the big deal here?

Its not a big deal, except that some people want to make it one. These are the people who have no interest in what Obama was trying to get across - they are more interested in dissecting the individual words to death, trying to find something to criticize.

 

And if I recall, actually, he said in the speech he HAD been there when he'd said some incindiary things. He admitted it.

 

[lostfan]

Its not a big deal, except that some people want to make it one. These are the people who have no interest in what Obama was trying to get across - they are more interested in dissecting the individual words to death, trying to find something to criticize.

 

And if I recall, actually, he said in the speech he HAD been there when he'd said some incindiary things. He admitted it.

None of it in and of itself is a big deal, it's just people are going to great lengths to try and call Obama a liar over something he's really not lying about. Maybe he tried to dance around it a little at first as politicians tend to do, but in the end it's still a bunch of trivial details.

[EvilMonkey]

No, not really... trying to take one specific incident and lump it in together with something from over a period of time that would almost seem to conflict but really doesn't, and be deliberately vague about it?

But he is being vague. And spinning. 20 years in this church, and he has NEVER heard him utter these things? This was his spiritual advisor, the man who brought him to God, the man who married him and his wife. You may be bowing to his holiness, but I find that very hard to believe that he has never heard these things before. That, is spin. And his statement "Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy?” Obama said. “Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.." What about the clips played 'could be' controversial? They ARE controversial. If he was to be as frank as you gushed about, maybe he could have admitted that they WERE controversial, bad, etc.

[EvilMonkey]

None of it in and of itself is a big deal, it's just people are going to great lengths to try and call Obama a liar over something he's really not lying about. Maybe he tried to dance around it a little at first as politicians tend to do, but in the end it's still a bunch of trivial details.

I thought he was frank and forthcoming, not doing the Mambo.

[HuskyCaucasian]

None of it in and of itself is a big deal, it's just people are going to great lengths to try and call Obama a liar over something he's really not lying about. Maybe he tried to dance around it a little at first as politicians tend to do, but in the end it's still a bunch of trivial details.

Take into consideration that i work for a church. last week one of my pastors said he cant trust NBC, CBS, ABC in their news coverage because they are "biased" but Fox News is the most balanced. People BELIEVE these guys and they shape opinions!

I dropped the subject because i didnt want to get into a debate prior to a staff meeting.

[kapkomet]

Its not a big deal, except that some people want to make it one. These are the people who have no interest in what Obama was trying to get across - they are more interested in dissecting the individual words to death, trying to find something to criticize.

 

And if I recall, actually, he said in the speech he HAD been there when he'd said some incindiary things. He admitted it.

 

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

[kapkomet]

But he is being vague. And spinning. 20 years in this church, and he has NEVER heard him utter these things? This was his spiritual advisor, the man who brought him to God, the man who married him and his wife. You may be bowing to his holiness, but I find that very hard to believe that he has never heard these things before. That, is spin. And his statement "Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy?” Obama said. “Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.." What about the clips played 'could be' controversial? They ARE controversial. If he was to be as frank as you gushed about, maybe he could have admitted that they WERE controversial, bad, etc.

See my post, Alpha. He didn't say that AT ALL. And I'm not an Obama-bot. The stupidity of this is mind-boggling.

 

 

(nevermind... you actually quoted it... but it's definitely getting twisted around. To some, those remarks aren't controversial, sadly enough.)

Edited March 18, 2008 by kapkomet

[Mplssoxfan]

See my post, Alpha. He didn't say that AT ALL. And I'm not an Obama-bot. The stupidity of this is mind-boggling.

(nevermind... you actually quoted it... but it's definitely getting twisted around. To some, those remarks aren't controversial, sadly enough.)

Are too an Obama-bot!

[kapkomet]

Are too an Obama-bot!

If you read about page 7 of this thread (without me even really thinking about it) I gave his speech in a more succinct way.

 

[thedoctor]

She is now a follower... which falls right into the Obama campaign's playbook. I'll tell you, what you have witnessed over the last four days is nothing short of brilliant from Obama's campaign. It's almost like they wanted the flames of his pastor "fanned" so he could make this speech. Think about it. It falls right in line with him "taking back control" in basically three days time. Pretty interesting stuff, and now Hillary's following along.

 

obama's entire campaign has been brilliant. when everything started, i didn't think he had a chance. with clinton's connections and experience i thought she'd kick obama's ass up one side of the block and down the other when it came to running a campaign.

 

instead, it's been the opposite, which is the biggest shock of this entire election cycle thus far for me. twice now obama has been able to turn huge potential criticisms into positives. first he spun his lack of washington experience into a positive by championing himself as the change candidate. the message of change has been used many, many times before but it rings hollow when it comes out of the mouth of a washington lifer. now, he's pretty much turned this race issue on its head and looks to be gaining momentum at a critical time.

[lostfan]

I thought he was frank and forthcoming, not doing the Mambo.

I'm really not about to get into an argument over this... it's retarded. No offense.

Edited March 19, 2008 by lostfan

[bmags]

http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/politics/20...erend-division/

 

as to the argument, seems a little dense:

 

He denied ever hearing the 9/11 or "God Damn America" statements.

 

In the speech, he said he's heard controversial statements made.

 

I.e. while denying and condemning those specific statements, he's not pretending he had no idea he had a pastor who has said controversial things, just that he wasn't there for those specific ones. IMO, this is being forthright, because what, in my lifetime experience, a normal politician would do is remove this guy from his campaign, condemn him and act like he had no idea his views.

 

 

[bmags]

obama's entire campaign has been brilliant. when everything started, i didn't think he had a chance. with clinton's connections and experience i thought she'd kick obama's ass up one side of the block and down the other when it came to running a campaign.

 

instead, it's been the opposite, which is the biggest shock of this entire election cycle thus far for me. twice now obama has been able to turn huge potential criticisms into positives. first he spun his lack of washington experience into a positive by championing himself as the change candidate. the message of change has been used many, many times before but it rings hollow when it comes out of the mouth of a washington lifer. now, he's pretty much turned this race issue on its head and looks to be gaining momentum at a critical time.

 

this is really what impresses me. His campaign was a speck in october. He was a first time runner for president, with little national experience, running against one of the, if not the (probably still behind kennedys) name in Democratic politics, with her millions behind her and her name and her ex-prez husband, and him being way behind, and now he's ahead. This could not, absolutely could not, have been done without a perfect campaign. A 50-state strategy isn't always the best, but it was such a good idea, especially with the dems system of splitting delegates. It's one of the reasons why I find Clinton's "I'm the only one who can take on the Republicans" laughable. If you can take on the Clintons, you can take on anyone.

 

and imo, Obama's incredibly fast socialization to the Senate is my reason for not giving a damn about his lack of national policy experience. History of American presidents also tells me that experience is not a great judgment of presidents. And, I mean, it doesn't need to even be said, but Rumsfeld and Cheney had mucho experience, and that whole era sucked.(for me)