Obama's Pastor

[bmags]

you must have missed the "white america" part.

 

and I don't think it's a mistake for Obama to give some context.

[lostfan]

You were not. But maybe you meant to, and that's ok. Actions and deeds are not important, it is what you intended that is important, and that you feel good about yourself.

In the bolded part, I was trying to get away from "I'm not racist, my family never owned slaves, and it ended in 1863" which I guess I should've clarified.

[kapkomet]

Slavery turned to Jim Crow laws which led to 100 years of direct oppression which did not formally end until it was forced to the Civil Rights era which was the beginning of the end of it all, but certainly not the end... all of which has set back the black race as a whole back decades and decades from where it could've or should've progressed to. And yeah, the people that did this were white, and they lived in America.

 

Maybe I should clarify... the root of the divide between white and black in this country comes from slavery.

 

Right. I agree with that. But I think it's used by quite a few African-Americans as a crutch to inflict racial divides (on that side), which is where we get back into Wright and his speeches about "rich white folks". It's nice to blame "White America" but in reality, everyone has a chance if they want it. It's all on whether you want to be a victim.

[Balta1701]

Slavery was also started before the US existed. Slavery has nothing to do with anyone alive and and is used as a cop out. Obama is pimping a great idea hypothetically but its not gonna change in the near future. If he wants to get rid of the racial divide its going to take more than a speech. Things like affirmative action and the Rooney rule should be immediately terminated because that isnt equality.

 

Maybe Obama can sit down with the individual who didnt get into Princeton because of the spot that was reserved for affirmative action and then he can explain ending the racial divide and equality to that person. To know what route his wife had to go to get into school BECAUSE of the color of her skin instead of qualification and then to see her senior thesis and to hear her say this is the first time shes been proud of the US shows a great deal of lack of appreciation for the system that got her into college.

 

Even the thought of a 1% possibility that he may deep down harness similar thoughts to the people close to him in terms of race terrifies me that he might get into office.

Thankfully, I can use Obama's own words to respond to you on this issue, because he dealt with exactly that issue today.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don’t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience – as far as they’re concerned, no one’s handed them anything, they’ve built it from scratch. They’ve worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they’re told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

 

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren’t always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

 

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze – a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns – this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

 

This is where we are right now. It’s a racial stalemate we’ve been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy – particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

 

But I have asserted a firm conviction – a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people – that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice is we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

 

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances – for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans — the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives – by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

[EvilMonkey]

Thankfully, I can use Obama's own words to respond to you on this issue, because he dealt with exactly that issue today.

no one’s handed them anything, they’ve built it from scratch.

That's the best part of that. Although I will agree that in alot in instances, as difficult as it was, it was easier to be a penniless white immigrant that black at certain times and places.

[lostfan]

Right. I agree with that. But I think it's used by quite a few African-Americans as a crutch to inflict racial divides (on that side), which is where we get back into Wright and his speeches about "rich white folks". It's nice to blame "White America" but in reality, everyone has a chance if they want it. It's all on whether you want to be a victim.

I'm mixed (you guys all probably figured I was black so I never bothered to mention it, I figured my own race was irrelevant though) and to get where I'm at, quite honestly, no white person has ever "held me back." And to be honest I've never had an N-bomb dropped to my face... anonymous morons on the Internet notwithstanding. The number of white racists I've met is actually pretty small, and I've even lived in the South. But at the same time I haven't gotten a thing because of affirmative action, everything I've gotten is on my own.

 

I say all this to say I try to go out of my way not to paint with that "white people" brush because all it does is divide and turn people off, and shut ears. I only speak about race in a historical context and if I talk about today it's on a "macro" type level. So, as far as what you're saying here, I agree with you.

[lostfan]

Slavery has nothing to do with anyone alive and and is used as a cop out.

In many cases, yes it is. But that doesn't mean it's always irrelevant. It had more to do with Jim Crow laws than slavery, and that's put a vicious cycle into motion that's hard to stop. Easier than it was 20 years ago but still hard.

[bmags]

Alright, we're getting somewhere. A-dog, is admitting that at one point in time, it was in fact harder for some black people in this country

[EvilMonkey]

Alright, we're getting somewhere. A-dog, is admitting that at one point in time, it was in fact harder for some black people in this country

I also will not deny that racism was bad, still exists to some degree but has got alot better. How's that?

[bmags]

well, that's the thing. We all agree, everyone here, and like eachother. However, I feel like you felt we couldn't say there were disadvantages to being black in this country without justifying it with the progress it has come.

[DrunkBomber]

Thankfully, I can use Obama's own words to respond to you on this issue, because he dealt with exactly that issue today.

I watched and read his speech, my point was however he needs to do more than this to get us anywhere. People seem to get so excited after he speaks because he wants to do all these wonderful things but he hasnt laid out any reasonable plan to get us there. I cant believe people still use slavery as an excuse. How long until the statute of limitations is up with that. None of us had anything to do with it and this country didnt start it. They mimicked what more established countries were doing and eventually put an end to it. There is such a double standard on these race issues that will never be able to get fixed because of people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

 

If Obama wants this utopia he has to get rid of things like B.E.T. or Miss Black America becuase those are double standards. If there was a W.E.T. people would s***. If they want to reserve head coaching spots in the NFL than why not reserve spots for white running backs?

 

Im all for ending the racial divide but this speech doesnt do anything to accomplish that. He used smoke and mirrors to sneak past an issue that hurt his campaign and all of a sudden he is MLK. Id like to see what strides he takes to start repairing all the racial tensions in the US.

[DrunkBomber]

In many cases, yes it is. But that doesn't mean it's always irrelevant. It had more to do with Jim Crow laws than slavery, and that's put a vicious cycle into motion that's hard to stop. Easier than it was 20 years ago but still hard.

Whats the relevance of it? We had nothing to do with slavery so why can it be used as an excuse when dealing with people now. How is the country supposed to move forward when theyre always looking back at a dark part of our past?

 

 

[bmags]

I watched and read his speech, my point was however he needs to do more than this to get us anywhere. People seem to get so excited after he speaks because he wants to do all these wonderful things but he hasnt laid out any reasonable plan to get us there. I cant believe people still use slavery as an excuse. How long until the statute of limitations is up with that. None of us had anything to do with it and this country didnt start it. They mimicked what more established countries were doing and eventually put an end to it. There is such a double standard on these race issues that will never be able to get fixed because of people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

 

If Obama wants this utopia he has to get rid of things like B.E.T. or Miss Black America becuase those are double standards. If there was a W.E.T. people would s***. If they want to reserve head coaching spots in the NFL than why not reserve spots for white running backs?

 

Im all for ending the racial divide but this speech doesnt do anything to accomplish that. He used smoke and mirrors to sneak past an issue that hurt his campaign and all of a sudden he is MLK. Id like to see what strides he takes to start repairing all the racial tensions in the US.

 

And what's the deal with univision and Telemundo!

[DrunkBomber]

And what's the deal with univision and Telemundo!

That show Caliente on telemundo was pretty excellent

[BearSox]

man the inaccuracies of this post

please list some. Just saying something but then not pointing anything is not a good way to prove a point.

[bmags]

you know, to respond, I think that's ridiculous. As far as government regulations, what should he do. He is saying his policies will help everyone, and everyone should have stock in wanting to help everyone.

 

But you know what this does that you are undermining? It starts discussion, and he asked that we foster a real race discussion. The kind Clinton said we should have but never pushed through. Talking about racism honestly and without acting like the other side is out to get you is not counterproductive. The main problems facing blacks and latinos are societal restrictions moreso than governmental ones. It is people that will change this. And, honestly did you read the speech? That's exactly what he asked of everyone.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The amount of reaching is laughable...

[bmags]

please list some. Just saying something but then not pointing anything is not a good way to prove a point.

 

Acting like Fox news was the only network that covered Wright is so absurd that I don't need to provide examples, it was the biggest story of the weekend and every network was playing the same soundclip from youtube ad nauseum.

[BearSox]

Acting like Fox news was the only network that covered Wright is so absurd that I don't need to provide examples, it was the biggest story of the weekend and every network was playing the same soundclip from youtube ad nauseum.

 

On Thursday only two news stations reported this. It was Fox's main story and then ABC had it as a secondary story, if that, for about 5 minutes.

 

But since Fox news is the most watched cable news station, and the other stations were losing ratings, they had to put the story on. Before Friday however, Fox was really the only station talking about this. ABC a little, but that was it.

 

And just to throw this out there, there was a survey done on journalists, and only 8% said they were conservative. So that means 92% of the media is either left wing or moderate. So it shouldn't surprise anyone if only one station will actually want to get this news out there.

 

Also, I find it HI-larious that the New York Times have buried this story, but yet, McCain's "relationship with a lobbyist" was a front page story.

 

At least 80% of the media is clearly biased towards dems and want Obama to win. And if you don't realize that, put down the kool-aid.

[bmags]

do you read the Times to even know? Do you watch these channels? MSNBC, CNN, even local news was covering this and HAVE been covering Wright for upwards of a year. Nobody is forcing anybodys hand just cause they have to because of fox's ratings. First you thought only Fox was covering this, then you learned ABC scooped it (also AP had it on our wire's on maybe even Wed. last week) and now you nicely include ABC in covering it.

[BearSox]

do you read the Times to even know? Do you watch these channels? MSNBC, CNN, even local news was covering this and HAVE been covering Wright for upwards of a year. Nobody is forcing anybodys hand just cause they have to because of fox's ratings. First you thought only Fox was covering this, then you learned ABC scooped it (also AP had it on our wire's on maybe even Wed. last week) and now you nicely include ABC in covering it.

Did you even read my posts?

 

This can be crippling to Obama's campaign whether you agree or not. However, since pretty much 80% of the media is in the tank for Obama, he might get away with this. Funny that CBS, CNN, and NBC haven't mentioned anything about this and ABC maybe spent 5 minutes on this subject. Whatever happened to the good old days when journalism was suppossed to be unbiased?

Funny, that is what I just mentioned in my last post to you. On Thursday ABC covered it, but not very much and showed only a little of the video.

 

when the story first came out, Thursday I believe it was, Fox was the only one to show it. CNN didn't do anything on it, and neither did CBS or NBC. Now, they kinda have to do it because it has gotten so big. But it is obvious the majority of the media is in the tank for Obama. Not only on television but also in the newspapers. The Chicago Sun Times, the New York Time, etc.

 

I'm not saying Fox isn't unbiased, because they are in favor of McCain and the Republicans, but at least they will report all the news. Fox's bias for Republicans is nothing compared to the majoirty of the media's bias and love for Obama/Democrats.

Do you see me dening ABC here?

 

Seriously, put down the kool-aid.

[knightni]

And if you don't realize that, put down the kool-aid.

 

 

Seriously, put down the kool-aid.

 

IIRC, he likes Country Time Lemonade better.

 

[bmags]

Do you realize that Fox News is a 24 hour channel and ABC has a much smaller news cycle? And you didn't "dening" ABC, you didn't mention it at all, someone else had to inform you they scooped it. ABC news scoops it, then other news follows. And everyone followed and played it over and over again. Everyone. Every radio station, every tv station, every newspaper followed it. There are real biases in the news media, but much like in this racial discussion, if you try and exaggerate it as much as you are, the realities get pushed aside, and the large falsity of your claims make it seem like there isn't any problems in media coverage, if this is the type of bias you are seeing. This was over-covered, if anything. It was not slighted by any media outlet.

[WilliamTell]

IIRC, he likes Country Time Lemonade better.

 

Haha Country Time Lemonade.

 

By the way, it's nice to see the Filibuster pass 50k for posts.

[lostfan]

I cant believe people still use slavery as an excuse.

Nobody is saying this, so stop saying they are.