Obama's Pastor

[lostfan]

Hillary said something to the effect of "you can't choose your family but you can choose your church, and I would've left, but Obama chose to stand by him". Best rebuttal to that I've seen: "Last time I checked, you can choose your spouse, and Hillary chose to stand by her husband while he was cheating on her for the whole world to see, and she chose to stand by him"

 

In other words, not a comparison Hillary needs to be making.

[BearSox]

Last time I checked, during weddings, the priest says; "Till death do you part." Even though I have a strong dislike for her, Hillary standing by her husband (even thought it was probably for political reasons) is something that should be admired, not frowned upon.

Edited March 26, 2008 by BearSox

[HuskyCaucasian]

Last time I checked, during weddings, the priest says; "Till death do you part." Even though I have a strong dislike for her, Hillary standing by her husband (even thought it was probably for political reasons) is something that should be admired, not frowned upon.

I did hear her mention in an interview in the past that she had a tough choice. and her "future" factored into her staying with him. Now, what "future" would require you not divorce your husband? Senate? naaaa. McCain is there. Working in the private sector? naa... Running for president? YEP! that's it. We didnt know it back then, but even THEN she was planning on running for president.

 

PS: I am currently trying to track down the quote or soundbite from that interview. I have NO idea where I heard it, but I did hear it.

[lostfan]

Last time I checked, during weddings, the priest says; "Till death do you part." Even though I have a strong dislike for her, Hillary standing by her husband (even thought it was probably for political reasons) is something that should be admired, not frowned upon.

That's basically my point, same logic applies. Obama could've thrown his pastor under the bus if he wanted. It would've been easy for him to.

[lostfan]

I guess that all depends on whether you actually think everything Wright stands for is fully represented in a short collection of 30-second video clips, and you extrapolate that over a period of 20 years.

[BearSox]

oops, I accidentally hit the delete button, oh well.

[DrunkBomber]

I guess that all depends on whether you actually think everything Wright stands for is fully represented in a short collection of 30-second video clips, and you extrapolate that over a period of 20 years.

I can draw enough conclusions from that idiots whole life in a minute of those clips. Are you trying to say those clips were taken out of context? Did big bad Fox news edit them to make them sound worse? Or did even Obama himself acknowledge that Wright is racist and try to separate himself from his views?

[lostfan]

I think I've had enough of this now

 

[DrunkBomber]

I think I've had enough of this now

 

Game blouses

[BigSqwert]

Pastor Of Clinton's Former Church: Don't Use Wright To Polarize.

[NorthSideSox72]

I can draw enough conclusions from that idiots whole life in a minute of those clips. Are you trying to say those clips were taken out of context? Did big bad Fox news edit them to make them sound worse? Or did even Obama himself acknowledge that Wright is racist and try to separate himself from his views?

And there it is - the death of common sense on this topic.

 

[BigSqwert]

Josh Marshall (TPM) on Clinton's Pittsburgh Tribune-Review interview yesterday:

 

As you know, earlier today Hillary Clinton tried to stoke the Jeremiah Wright controversy by telling an editorial board meeting in Pittsburgh that Jeremiah Wright "would not have been my pastor" and then going on to note that she had denounced Don Imus in contrast to Obama's allegedly more tolerant attitude toward hate speech.

 

Later in the afternoon she repeated the same comments at a press conference and when asked why she had chosen to engage Obama on the Wright controversy she seemed to suggest that rather than being intentional she was only providing an answer to a direct question. "Well I answered a question in an ed board today that was very specific about what I would have done," Clinton told the reporter, "And you know I'm just speaking for myself, and i was answering a question that was posed to me."

 

Now obviously, Hillary's been in the political big leagues for a while. She knows how to deflect a question. But it's actually much richer than this. This afternoon Greg Sargent and I were talking this over and one of us realized that this wasn't just any Pittsburgh paper. It was the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, the money-losing, vanity, fringe sheet of Richard Mellon Scaife, funder of the Arkansas Project, the American Spectator during its prime Clinton-hunting years and virtually every right-wing operation of note at one point or another over the last twenty years or more.

 

In fact, what I only discovered late this evening, when Eric Kleefeld sent me this link at National Review Online, is that not only was it Scaife's paper. Scaife himself was there sitting just to Clinton's right apparently taking part in the questioning.

 

This alone has to amount to some sort cosmic encounter like something out of a Wagner opera. Remember, this is the guy who spent millions of dollars puffing up wingnut fantasies about Hillary's having Vince Foster whacked and lots of other curdled and ugly nonsense. Scaife was the nerve center of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Those of us who spent years defending the Clintons from all that malarkey learned this point on day one.

 

But there's more.

 

Let's game this out. Hillary's saying this wasn't some planned thing. She just got hit with this question and she answered it. But here's my question. You think Richard Mellon Scaife might want to dig into the Jeremiah Wright story? This is sort of like, 'Hey, I go on Hannity and next thing you know he's asking me about Wright and Farrakhan. How was I supposed to see that coming?'

 

I don't know just how this went down. But the idea Sen. Clinton and her staff went into an editorial board meeting with Scaife and his lackey reporters without a clear sense that they were going to get at least one choice Jeremiah Wright question just somehow doesn't ring true to me.

 

--Josh Marshall

[DrunkBomber]

And there it is - the death of common sense on this topic.

Its not like the guy is trying to hide his opinions. He is blatantly saying racist things and criticizing the country and my point is that the quotes werent taken out of context. How can anyone not realize that guy is racist after watching that clip for a minute? Im not trying to say I know anything about him outside of him being a pastor but it doesnt take much to draw conclusions about what his thoughts are on race.

[NorthSideSox72]

Its not like the guy is trying to hide his opinions. He is blatantly saying racist things and criticizing the country and my point is that the quotes werent taken out of context. How can anyone not realize that guy is racist after watching that clip for a minute? Im not trying to say I know anything about him outside of him being a pastor but it doesnt take much to draw conclusions about what his thoughts are on race.

re-read your post - you say that the quotes "weren't taken out of context". How do you know? How much of this guys sermons have you seen?

 

No one is contending that his words in the videos are not racist. They are, and they are terrible things for someone to say. It may mean that Rev Wright is a racist slimeball. Or, it may mean that in his 20 years of sermonizing, he's said a few stupid things - kind of like all the rest of us.

 

If you can't see that distinction, then I think you need to look up the definition of the word "context". Then try the phrase "jumping to conclusions". No one is saying he ISN'T a racist... they are saying that he MIGHT be.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

re-read your post - you say that the quotes "weren't taken out of context". How do you know? How much of this guys sermons have you seen?

 

No one is contending that his words in the videos are not racist. They are, and they are terrible things for someone to say. It may mean that Rev Wright is a racist slimeball. Or, it may mean that in his 20 years of sermonizing, he's said a few stupid things - kind of like all the rest of us.

 

If you can't see that distinction, then I think you need to look up the definition of the word "context". Then try the phrase "jumping to conclusions". No one is saying he ISN'T a racist... they are saying that he MIGHT be.

 

 

Ok, I get what you're saying here, but don't you think you're being a bit naive in thinking that he has never said this stuff before? I mean, it's quite a leap to go from good normal christian sermons to "god damn america" and the white man is the cause of all the black man's problems. I have a feeling he had a pretty apparent viewpoint that was highlighted by these select statements. This is a guy, afterall, that loves Farakhan and forced Opera of all people to leave his church. And I love this argument that "oh, he's just a normal person, he should get a pass for saying something stupid once in his life." I'd like a teacher to tell say such words in their classroom, or a judge, or someone else that we hold in high regard in this society (gloss over the easy distinction of "public" employee...he's still a public figure in society).

 

Trust me, I don't think this story deserved half the attention it recieved, but I don't think it's a stretch at all to say this guy obviously has some pent up hate for whites and the whites that have led/currently lead this country.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ok, I get what you're saying here, but don't you think you're being a bit naive in thinking that he has never said this stuff before? I mean, it's quite a leap to go from good normal christian sermons to "god damn america" and the white man is the cause of all the black man's problems. I have a feeling he had a pretty apparent viewpoint that was highlighted by these select statements. This is a guy, afterall, that loves Farakhan and forced Opera of all people to leave his church. And I love this argument that "oh, he's just a normal person, he should get a pass for saying something stupid once in his life." I'd like a teacher to tell say such words in their classroom, or a judge, or someone else that we hold in high regard in this society (gloss over the easy distinction of "public" employee...he's still a public figure in society).

 

Trust me, I don't think this story deserved half the attention it recieved, but I don't think it's a stretch at all to say this guy obviously has some pent up hate for whites and the whites that have led/currently lead this country.

Its definitely not a stretch to think he's said it before. And definitely possible he's said it lots of times. I think the likelihood is, he says that kind of thing once in a blue moon.

 

The point is, for someone to say all they need to judge someone is one or two quotes taken from their lives, that we would all look pretty s***ty in that light.

 

[DrunkBomber]

re-read your post - you say that the quotes "weren't taken out of context". How do you know? How much of this guys sermons have you seen?

 

No one is contending that his words in the videos are not racist. They are, and they are terrible things for someone to say. It may mean that Rev Wright is a racist slimeball. Or, it may mean that in his 20 years of sermonizing, he's said a few stupid things - kind of like all the rest of us.

 

If you can't see that distinction, then I think you need to look up the definition of the word "context". Then try the phrase "jumping to conclusions". No one is saying he ISN'T a racist... they are saying that he MIGHT be.

I would agree if Obama had a different reaction. Even he said that he had heard the pastor say the stuff and tried to separate himself from his views. There hasnt been contention of anything that the man has said by anyone. I didnt even think the mans views were what was being debated as much as Obamas relationship to him. Can you honestly say you cant draw any conclusions about the man based on everything that has transpired since the tapes got out?

[Kyyle23]

Ok, I get what you're saying here, but don't you think you're being a bit naive in thinking that he has never said this stuff before? I mean, it's quite a leap to go from good normal christian sermons to "god damn america" and the white man is the cause of all the black man's problems. I have a feeling he had a pretty apparent viewpoint that was highlighted by these select statements. This is a guy, afterall, that loves Farakhan and forced Opera of all people to leave his church. And I love this argument that "oh, he's just a normal person, he should get a pass for saying something stupid once in his life." I'd like a teacher to tell say such words in their classroom, or a judge, or someone else that we hold in high regard in this society (gloss over the easy distinction of "public" employee...he's still a public figure in society).

 

Trust me, I don't think this story deserved half the attention it recieved, but I don't think it's a stretch at all to say this guy obviously has some pent up hate for whites and the whites that have led/currently lead this country.

 

 

What does the man have against Opera? Does he fall asleep during the solos? Doesnt like fat ladies singing? Does he hate music as much as america?

[DrunkBomber]

What does the man have against Opera? Does he fall asleep during the solos? Doesnt like fat ladies singing? Does he hate music as much as america?

I think he means Oprah...Im assuming it was ungreen sarcasm though

Edited March 27, 2008 by DrunkBomber

[kapkomet]

I think he means Oprah...Im assuming it was ungreen sarcasm though

Why hello, Mr. Obvious!

 

[DrunkBomber]

Why hello, Mr. Obvious!

Damn nongreen users and your mind tricks.

[Kyyle23]

Damn nongreen users and your mind tricks.

 

Seriously, read what I wrote. Was green really necessary DB?

 

I think not

Edited March 27, 2008 by kyyle23

[DrunkBomber]

Seriously, read what I wrote. Was green really necessary DB?

 

I think not

Well you would like to think in a thread of this topic that people can look past the color of the text and comprehend it by the manner in which the text was used.

[iamshack]

Have you guys watched the longer clips of those sermons that the sound bytes were taken from? I haven't watched all of them, but the two I watched, I did not find particularly racist.

 

I don't know, maybe I have a different definition of the term racist than others, but I do not find it racist to complain or list off the wrongs that have been done in the past and to condemn the government for doing so. In the sermon wherein Wright states "God Damn America," he proceeds through a whole litany of wrongs that have been committed not only against African Americans, but against other minority groups, such as the Japanese in World War II. And I didn't particularly understand him to be saying that it was "white" people who were deliberately behind these injustices, but the US government (obviously I understand there is often an implication there).

 

I'm not suggesting the guy is the most fair-minded of critics of the US government over the years, and sure, much of his rhetoric was inflammatory (find a preacher who doesn't use such rhetoric), but it just seems that quite a few people are using this opportunity to tee-off on Obama for a lot of things they already felt (or wanted to feel), but had no excuse to.

[iamshack]

Ok, I get what you're saying here, but don't you think you're being a bit naive in thinking that he has never said this stuff before? I mean, it's quite a leap to go from good normal christian sermons to "god damn america" and the white man is the cause of all the black man's problems. I have a feeling he had a pretty apparent viewpoint that was highlighted by these select statements. This is a guy, afterall, that loves Farakhan and forced Opera of all people to leave his church. And I love this argument that "oh, he's just a normal person, he should get a pass for saying something stupid once in his life." I'd like a teacher to tell say such words in their classroom, or a judge, or someone else that we hold in high regard in this society (gloss over the easy distinction of "public" employee...he's still a public figure in society).

 

Trust me, I don't think this story deserved half the attention it recieved, but I don't think it's a stretch at all to say this guy obviously has some pent up hate for whites and the whites that have led/currently lead this country.

 

Have you watched the two sermons that Fox took their soundbytes from, Jenks?

 

If you haven't, just take 15 minutes to watch them. I think your opinions might change a bit.