Obama's Pastor

[NorthSideSox72]

Its a scary time to live in this country

I'd suggest that the last 7 years or so have been scary. I am actually looking forward to ANY of these three candidates being in office come 2009 - though I'd be less thrilled if it was Clinton. This is politically speaking, of course - the economy is going to suck for a while.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

If the campaign involves religion as a topic for either Obama or McCain, it's a bad thing. They both have what could be best descriped as sketchy and what could worst be descriped as flat our scary backgrounds with their religious beliefs. However, there will be MUCH more backlash over what Obama's pastor said than what McCain's spiritual advisor said, because there are a lot more anti-Islam people in America than people realize.

How are Obama's Christian minister's statements causing anti-Islam backlash?

 

[whitesoxfan101]

How are Obama's Christian minister's statements causing anti-Islam backlash?

 

They won't, maybe I should have said more people in this country believe Obama is of Islam in faith that people realize. I know it lacks any merit, but people believe what they want to.

[NorthSideSox72]

They won't, maybe I should have said more people in this country believe Obama is of Islam in faith that people realize. I know it lacks any merit, but people believe what they want to.

I guess, if there is a backlash from this, it isn't about Islam... its about a perceived pro-black racism. But I wonder how much effect that will have, because frankly, people who think that way are already voting for someone else anyway.

 

[jackie hayes]

wow, right. A black preacher getting angry about injustices and poverty is on the same lines as the God hates F**s Church? Talk about a stretch.

Come on, to be fair, it's a lot worse than that. The US invented AIDS to kill blacks? He's a demagogue.

[bmags]

It is probably somewhere in the middle. I don't know, I just don't put too much stock in this. Pat Robertson has made some pretty outlandish comments and he's been pretty close to the president. Billy Graham has made some outlandish comments and was very important to a number of presidents. This man has obviously helped Obama find faith and understanding. As far as political views, perhaps Obama has taken some to heart, in that he has fought against poverty. But this whole trying to paint him as an unpatriotic, angry black man is silly. Nobody who didn't love this country would enter themselves into the mudslinging contest that is a presidential race. They at the very least wouldn't get far. And at the very least they wouldn't run their campaign on hope running a positive campaign. He doesn't want to shed this guy, so it leads me to believe he is a friend. A close friend. I don't see this being a big deal for me either. Obama hasn't run his campaign highlighting he's black, if anything he's tried to downplay and strived to be a candidate for everyone, he hasn't ignored any states like Clinton (not counting MI and FLA) just because of unfavorable demographics. So I don't think a reminder that yes, he is half-black and shares some views that blacks have been treated poorly by America is such a bad thing.

[jackie hayes]

It is probably somewhere in the middle. I don't know, I just don't put too much stock in this. Pat Robertson has made some pretty outlandish comments and he's been pretty close to the president. Billy Graham has made some outlandish comments and was very important to a number of presidents. This man has obviously helped Obama find faith and understanding. As far as political views, perhaps Obama has taken some to heart, in that he has fought against poverty. But this whole trying to paint him as an unpatriotic, angry black man is silly. Nobody who didn't love this country would enter themselves into the mudslinging contest that is a presidential race. They at the very least wouldn't get far. And at the very least they wouldn't run their campaign on hope running a positive campaign. He doesn't want to shed this guy, so it leads me to believe he is a friend. A close friend. I don't see this being a big deal for me either. Obama hasn't run his campaign highlighting he's black, if anything he's tried to downplay and strived to be a candidate for everyone, he hasn't ignored any states like Clinton (not counting MI and FLA) just because of unfavorable demographics. So I don't think a reminder that yes, he is half-black and shares some views that blacks have been treated poorly by America is such a bad thing.

I agree with that for the most part, and it doesn't affect how I think of Obama. I'm just saying that the rhetoric itself is extreme, and it seems best to be honest about that.

[mr_genius]

wow, right. A black preacher getting angry about injustices and poverty is on the same lines as the God hates F**s Church? Talk about a stretch.

 

well...

 

the guy also said AIDS was created by the government to kill black people, 9-11 was an inside job, Pearl Harbor was an inside job, supports people with the view that Jews are the devil, ect.

 

so not really that much of a stretch for some people. for others the guy is just telling the truth. let the voters decide where they stand and if they think Obama being a close associate with such a person is a big deal or not.

[lostfan]

That's one hell of a cop-out, imo.

lol, WTF do you expect/want him to say?

[thedoctor]

http://www.motherjones.com/washington_disp...tual-guide.html

 

i live about 20 minutes from revrod's church. dude is flat-out nuts.

[DrunkBomber]

I'd suggest that the last 7 years or so have been scary. I am actually looking forward to ANY of these three candidates being in office come 2009 - though I'd be less thrilled if it was Clinton. This is politically speaking, of course - the economy is going to suck for a while.

Its getting scarier every day. This country is going to s***. The s*** that goes on with politics these days is why this country fought the Revolutionary War.

[EvilMonkey]

This would be a lot different if it were an organization whose themes included those things. But its not. Its not the KKK, or the Black Panthers... its a church. And I'd bet that 90% of what is said is stuff we'd all more or less be OK with.

You can't cherry-pick on the racism defense. Don Imus has received widespread condemnation for very occasional statements that showed racial insensitivity. Trent Lott was condemned for one statement praising Strom Thurmond's 1948 presidential campaign. So if 10% of what he says is bad, it is bad.

[lostfan]

You can't cherry-pick on the racism defense. Don Imus has received widespread condemnation for very occasional statements that showed racial insensitivity. Trent Lott was condemned for one statement praising Strom Thurmond's 1948 presidential campaign. So if 10% of what he says is bad, it is bad.

mmkay but you know what, these are not things Obama said, at any point, ever... it's guilt by association.

 

Furthermore Wright grew up during the Civil Rights era and so on while Obama was raised by a single white mother overseas.

 

I kind of get tired of explaining the black perspective and why some of them speak with so much anger and distrust as if they're just supposed to "get over" the past and the subsequent situation the race is in today. It's like talking to a wall most of the time, especially on the internet, so I don't even attempt to do it anymore. (This should not be read as lostfan's endorsement of anything Wright said in these clips btw)

Edited March 15, 2008 by lostfan

[Controlled Chaos]

Its getting scarier every day. This country is going to s***. The s*** that goes on with politics these days is why this country fought the Revolutionary War.

To me the s*** that goes on in this threads is whats scary. Instead of just seeing this guy for what he is, and saying he is a fukcin nut job racist. People have to take sides right away, even to the point of some defending the dude. One has said he doesn't even see a problem with his speeches for christ sake. Would he really feel the same if this wasn't Obama's pastor and just some wacko that was caught on youtube?? I doubt it.

 

Others want to turn the story to something else...Lets see who endorsed McCain...so we can rip him Let's turn to some conservatives who painted Obama a Muslim. It's hilarious and way f***in sad at the same time. I mean just look at the reactions here. Let's just try to imagine for a second this was just posted in the Buster because of the pastors comments and had no link whatsoever to Obama. I'm guessing the responses would be drastically different for some.

 

It's like nothing can be wrong with your candidate...even some sick f*** like this that he has gone to for the last 20 years. You can't just say...I really like Obama and am still voting for him, I just wish he showed some better judgement here or I love everything obama, but this is f***ed up and I have to put one strike against my guy.

 

I mean maybe I'm late to the political game. I never was big into politics really, but maybe this is just how it is. Defend at all costs.

It seems like such common sense to me..someone is a wacko, I'm gonna call it like I see it. I can give a flying f*** if it happens to be the 'guy' I'm endorsing for something. I'm not gonna look the other way if I thought he showed bad judgement and that's exactly what I think Obama did. He showed terrible judgement here. He has ratcheted up the statements against this guy the last two days, because it has become a firestorm, but what has he been doing for the last 20 years. Why continue to listen to someone preach hate, if you don't believe any of it. This is not a crazy Uncle, as he has said. You can't choose your crazy Uncle...you are stuck with him. Obama chose to stay and listen to this guy preach hate and blame white people for everything from a poor black jesus to the 9/11 attacks. So yeah...I definitely question if Obama believes some of this stuff and I don't care if he is your favorite candidate...how can you not at the very least, give pause to some of this stuff. If this was my absolute favorite candidate, there is no way in hell I would just overlook this, or start searching for a defense or something, but maybe I'm just not as morallitcally corrupt yet.

 

*Yes, I just made up the word morallitically.

look for it to be added to webster shortly.

Edited March 15, 2008 by Controlled Chaos

[jasonxctf]

i hear that Hillary Clinton's hair dresser might be a scientologist and John McCain's butcher might be a racist.

 

anything else we want to waste time discussing before the PA primary???

[jackie hayes]

To me the s*** that goes on in this threads is whats scary. Instead of just seeing this guy for what he is, and saying he is a fukcin nut job racist. People have to take sides right away, even to the point of some defending the dude. One has said he doesn't even see a problem with his speeches for christ sake. Would he really feel the same if this wasn't Obama's pastor and just some wacko that was caught on youtube?? I doubt it.

 

Others want to turn the story to something else...Lets see who endorsed McCain...so we can rip him Let's turn to some conservatives who paitned Obama a Muslim. It's hilarious and way f***in sad at the same time. I mean just look at the reactions here. Let's just try to imagine for a second this was just posted in the Buster because of the pastors comments and had no link whatsoever to Obama. I'm guessing the responses would be drastically different for some.

 

It's like nothing can be wrong with your canidate...even some sick f*** like this that he has gone to for the last 20 years. You can't just say...I really like Obama and am still voting for him, I just wish he showed some better judgement here or I love everything obama, but this is f***ed up and I have to put one strike against my guy.

 

I mean maybe I'm late to the political game. I never was big into politics really, but maybe this is just how it is. Defend at all costs.

It seems like such common sense to me..someone is a wacko, I'm gonna call it like I see it. I can give a flying f*** if it happens to be the 'guy' I'm endorsing for something. I'm not gonna look the other way if I thought he showed bad judgement and that's exactly what I think Obama did. He showed terrible judgement here. He has ratched up the statements against this guy the last two days, because it has become a firestorm, but what has he been doing for the last 20 years. Why continue to listen to someone preach hate, if you don't believe any of it. This is not a crazy Uncle, as he has said. You can't choose your crazy Uncle...you are stuck with him. Obama chose to stay and listen to this guy preach hate and blame white people for everything from a poor black jesus to the 9/11 attacks. So yeah...I definitely question if Obama believes some of this stuff and I don't care if he is your favorite canidate...how can you not at the very least, give pause to some of this stuff. If this was my absolute favorite candidate, there is no way in hell I would just overlook this, or start searching for a defense or something, but maybe I'm just not as morallitcally corrupt yet.

 

*Yes, I just made up the word morallitically.

look for it to be added to webster shortly.

I would say you're painting with an awfully broad brush here. Not all Obama supports, not even many, are defending what Wright said. But belonging to a church means more than listening to one person. If that were the extent of it, churchgoing could be replaced by books on tape. You are ignoring the idea that a church is fundamentally a community. A person can belong to a particular community but not subscribe to its uglier elements, and given the fact that Obama has explicitly stated that he rejects these comments, that describes him rather well, imo. I don't expect a candidate to abandon a community simply because there are parts he disagrees with.

 

Again, I'm not excusing what Wright said. But this attempt to stick Obama to opinions that he explicitly renounces seems pretty silly. A vast left-wing conspiracy!...

[DrunkBomber]

To me the s*** that goes on in this threads is whats scary. Instead of just seeing this guy for what he is, and saying he is a fukcin nut job racist. People have to take sides right away, even to the point of some defending the dude. One has said he doesn't even see a problem with his speeches for christ sake. Would he really feel the same if this wasn't Obama's pastor and just some wacko that was caught on youtube?? I doubt it.

 

Others want to turn the story to something else...Lets see who endorsed McCain...so we can rip him Let's turn to some conservatives who painted Obama a Muslim. It's hilarious and way f***in sad at the same time. I mean just look at the reactions here. Let's just try to imagine for a second this was just posted in the Buster because of the pastors comments and had no link whatsoever to Obama. I'm guessing the responses would be drastically different for some.

 

It's like nothing can be wrong with your candidate...even some sick f*** like this that he has gone to for the last 20 years. You can't just say...I really like Obama and am still voting for him, I just wish he showed some better judgement here or I love everything obama, but this is f***ed up and I have to put one strike against my guy.

 

I mean maybe I'm late to the political game. I never was big into politics really, but maybe this is just how it is. Defend at all costs.

It seems like such common sense to me..someone is a wacko, I'm gonna call it like I see it. I can give a flying f*** if it happens to be the 'guy' I'm endorsing for something. I'm not gonna look the other way if I thought he showed bad judgement and that's exactly what I think Obama did. He showed terrible judgement here. He has ratcheted up the statements against this guy the last two days, because it has become a firestorm, but what has he been doing for the last 20 years. Why continue to listen to someone preach hate, if you don't believe any of it. This is not a crazy Uncle, as he has said. You can't choose your crazy Uncle...you are stuck with him. Obama chose to stay and listen to this guy preach hate and blame white people for everything from a poor black jesus to the 9/11 attacks. So yeah...I definitely question if Obama believes some of this stuff and I don't care if he is your favorite candidate...how can you not at the very least, give pause to some of this stuff. If this was my absolute favorite candidate, there is no way in hell I would just overlook this, or start searching for a defense or something, but maybe I'm just not as morallitcally corrupt yet.

 

*Yes, I just made up the word morallitically.

look for it to be added to webster shortly.

I agree with a lot of this. However, I dont like any of the candidates and wont defend any of them. There wasnt even a single candidate from the beginning I agreed with more than one or two of their stances on certain things. When I say its a scary time to live in this country its because IMO no matter which of the three candidates get into the White House will put their stamp on the country by f***ing something up. There are so many terrible things going on in this country and the world and there isnt anything that regular people can do about it.

 

Im sure someone will criticize me for thinking this when I will not vote and do "my part" to make a change but in all reality my vote doesnt count. I dont like any of the candidates and wont support any of them. Also, it doesnt matter what anybody does because Illinois is going blue no matter what. Finally, whats the point when within 8 years we saw an election where a candidate got more of the popular vote and lost the election so whats the point.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I watched the videos and I'm as white as they come. He didn't say anything outright false. Maybe exagerated. So why is this such a big deal?

Edited March 15, 2008 by AngelasDaddy0427

[mr_genius]

I watched the videos and I'm as white as they come. He didn't say anything outright false. Maybe exagerated. So why is this such a big deal?

 

I saw them too and they are pretty crazy. But I think there is a segment of the population that believes stuff like AIDS was created by the US government to kill black people. But there aren't nearly enough people with these types of beliefs to get anyone elected president. Honestly, the guy is a total nut case and the videos of him that FOX news have been playing nonstop are really damning. There is a reason Obama is running from this guy as fast as he can.

 

[sox4lifeinPA]

Billy Graham has made some outlandish comments and was very important to a number of presidents.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd like to see quotes on this. I don't remembering reading anything about Billy in that regard.

 

Robertson, Falwell, yes, but not Graham.

 

maybe his son?

[WilliamTell]

So, does this thread mean he's not a Muslim?

 

I'd rather have him be Muslim than listen to that nonsense for the past 20 years.

 

I hope he doesn't agree with his pastor and I believe him when he says he doesn't.

[Balta1701]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd like to see quotes on this. I don't remembering reading anything about Billy in that regard.

 

Robertson, Falwell, yes, but not Graham.

 

maybe his son?

Graham's clearly not at the level of the other folks you mention, or even of his son, but I can give you his appearance on some of the Nixon tapes talking about how the Jews control the media and how that control needs to be broken.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Graham's clearly not at the level of the other folks you mention, or even of his son, but I can give you his appearance on some of the Nixon tapes talking about how the Jews control the media and how that control needs to be broken.

 

 

fair enough. 1970 is a lot different than 2008. And he seemed to keep his hands clean ever since.

 

I'm not trying to defend, necessarily, just trying to seperate the guilty from the REALLY guilty

[FlaSoxxJim]

You can't just say...I really like Obama and am still voting for him, I just wish he showed some better judgement here or I love everything obama, but this is f***ed up and I have to put one strike against my guy.

 

Yes, actually I've done exactly that with this revelation about Obama's pastor. I don't at all like the fact that he's continued to belong to the same church for 20 years if he so thoroughly denounces all of the controversial aspects of the pastor's message.

 

It doesn't mean i all of a sudden believe anothr candidate is a better choice, but I end up feeling frustrated/angry with Obama for either:

 

1) not having enough moral conviction to take a stand and leave this particular congregation if he disagreed with so much of what the paster espoused, or

 

2) maybe agreeing with the pastor on some of those views, even if now it's not politically convenient to cop to it.

 

It is definitely a strike against the guy in my book, and it's not the first one but may be the biggest as far as my belief that this can be a guy to help move the country past some of this ugliness.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I saw them too and they are pretty crazy. But I think there is a segment of the population that believes stuff like AIDS was created by the US government to kill black people. But there aren't nearly enough people with these types of beliefs to get anyone elected president. Honestly, the guy is a total nut case and the videos of him that FOX news have been playing nonstop are really damning. There is a reason Obama is running from this guy as fast as he can.

 

Well maybe I haven't seen enough of these... Obviously if what you say is true he has gone to far.