Gavin Floyd

[Dick Allen]

Bottom line is he's the Sox starter, whether you like it or not. I think its pretty petty for people to rip him on one start in spring training as opposed to seeing what he does at the major league level.

 

Plus, if any of you had a clue, you'd realize that pitchers tend to go through a dead arm period during spring and this isn't some typical Hawk BS that he will ocassionally spew to make excuses (I've heard it countlessly from analysts and current/former pitchers over and over and that includes Steve Stone who isn't the type of guy that makes excuses).

 

Yes, Floyd had some bad starts last year, but he also had some good starts against the Tigers and like it or not is the starter. b****ing and moaning isn't going to change it and making stupid comments after he's had multiple starts this spring where he's thrown consistently above 90MPH (well at least based upon what I've read and your right, maybe there is some major conspiracy by the Tribune/Southtown and every highlight I've seen this spring which has shown him at times throwing over 90). Oh and Ozzie has always been the type of manager that kisses a players ass and follows the company line, oh wait, last I remember he has at many times ripped the s*** out of guys (including Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens at times last year who he called too scared to play in the majors).

 

I'm honestly sick and tired of the negative nancy bulls*** and when the season starts I'm just going to start one massive thread to keep stupid whining to (cause I know at times we all need to whine and b**** and get crap out cause all of us are very passionate about this squad).

 

Its one thing when we want to discuss a players skillset and make projections, but its another when I have to see a new thread every time someone has one bad day (especially in the case of guys like Konerko/Dye, etc who have proven themselves to be pretty freaking good players throughout there career).

There's a lot of people who thought Gavin Floyd sucked long before spring training and this one particular outing. Maybe he does have a dead arm, but he pitched 7 innings up until today and gave up more runs than strikeouts. For a guy who supposedly looks so great, and has top-of-the rotation stuff, its not so impressive.

[Rowand44]

I agree. Failing in the NL means much more.

Just how long or short of a leash is Gavin going to get from you people? I give him a minimum of 4 ML starts if he comes North in a few weeks.

He's twenty f***in five. He's got a lot to prove but giving up on him this f'n early in his career especially when he's pitched about 2 months here is ridiculous.

 

And I'm done.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Rowand44

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

There's a lot of people who thought Gavin Floyd sucked long before spring training and this one particular outing. Maybe he does have a dead arm, but he pitched 7 innings up until today and gave up more runs than strikeouts. For a guy who supposedly looks so great, and has top-of-the rotation stuff, its not so impressive.

 

True.

[santo=dorf]

He's twenty f***in five. He's got a lot to prove but giving up on him this f'n early in his career especially when he's pitched about 2 months here is ridiculous.

 

And I'm done.

I don't care what his age is, he has to be treated like a big leaguer because he is out of options. We can't send him down to work on his pitches, or mature a little more, or try and figure it out.

 

Either perform at the major league level, or get out.

[Gregory Pratt]

I will go on record and bet with anybody that Floyd does not win 10 games this year.

 

Wins are a team stat. Why don't you judge him on ERA, IP, WHIP, K?

 

I don't want to beat up on Floyd too much, but considering our "win now" approach, his lack of options and his past record, he needs to put up something.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Gregory Pratt

[Chisoxfn]

just curious, what about all the previous years of gavin floyds career, the ones where everyone questioned his mental approach, and his first season in teh MLB where he garnered a, i believe, 7+ ERA?

 

but yeah, he's good, this is just spring training/dead arm

Jeremy Bonderman lost 20 games his first season

Greg Maddux lost 14 games and posted a 5.61 ERA in his first full season (this was in the mid 80's, so it isn't ridiculous to say if you had that Maddux pitching in this era that you would have had him post something similar to Floyd)

Robin Ventura was absolutely brutal to start his major league career

 

Point being, most young baseball players don't experience immediate success. They go through the motions, make adjustments, and the good ones pull out and become something, the bad ones falter.

 

Gavin Floyd has overcame his piss poor showing in Philly and came to Chicago and instead of wallowing around, he got himself back in track and earned a lot of respect based on the way he took the ball every time out down in Charlotte and had a positive attitude and eventually impressed Ozzie/Kenny/Cooper late in the season in Chicago and has came in this spring and continued to impress (sans today start).

 

Bottom line, the history of baseball shows that most young players fail or at least struggle at some point very early in there career before coming through. Floyd clearly has tools, find me a scout that doesn't believe that and I'd be shocked (now i could see a scout saying he's a risk or that he isn't the lock he once was, but I don't think you'd see a scout, who based on stuff alone, didn't think Floyd was worthy of being a major league starter). Whether it pans out or not, I don't know, but he's going to get his chance to open the season and show what he can do.

 

If he sucks, the Sox will call someone else up or go with Masset or trade for someone. They probably will be in a tough spot when it comes to competing if a few of the starters fail, but we all know that the pitchers will have to pitch and Danks/Floyd will have to grow up in a hurry if the club plans on beating Detroit & Cleveland and winning this division.

[joejoesox]

what's up with all the f-bombs in this thread, why can't we have a civilized arguement about this kid without people getting all hot and bothered. i'm sorry if it bothers you that much, but there are legitimate arguements on both sides. tossing f'ing this and f***ing that all over the place doesn't do anything for your arguement

 

if seeing discussions about how bad gavin floyd looks to people, do yourself a favor and restrain yourself from hitting the reply button

[fathom]

Wins are a team stat. Why don't you judge him on ERA, IP, WHIP, K?

 

I will go on record that there's no way he has an ERA better than 5.00 this season. If he makes a minimum of 10 starts, and has an ERA better than 5.00, I will never post on this site again.

[Rowand44]

what's up with all the f-bombs in this thread, why can't we have a civilized arguement about this kid without people getting all hot and bothered. i'm sorry if it bothers you that much, but there are legitimate arguements on both sides. tossing f'ing this and f***ing that all over the place doesn't do anything for your arguement

 

if seeing discussions about how bad gavin floyd looks to people, do yourself a favor and restrain yourself from hitting the reply button

It's very frustrating to rehash the same arguments over and over again over one ST start.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Wins are a team stat. Why don't you judge him on ERA, IP, WHIP, K?

 

 

But show me a 10 game winner with a 5.50 ERA, I will show you a lucky man. (this is not to say that Floyd's ERA is or will be 5.50).

[Dick Allen]

Jeremy Bonderman lost 20 games his first season

Greg Maddux lost 14 games and posted a 5.61 ERA in his first full season (this was in the mid 80's, so it isn't ridiculous to say if you had that Maddux pitching in this era that you would have had him post something similar to Floyd)

Robin Ventura was absolutely brutal to start his major league career

 

Point being, most young baseball players don't experience immediate success. They go through the motions, make adjustments, and the good ones pull out and become something, the bad ones falter.

 

Gavin Floyd has overcame his piss poor showing in Philly and came to Chicago and instead of wallowing around, he got himself back in track and earned a lot of respect based on the way he took the ball every time out down in Charlotte and had a positive attitude and eventually impressed Ozzie/Kenny/Cooper late in the season in Chicago and has came in this spring and continued to impress (sans today start).

 

Bottom line, the history of baseball shows that most young players fail or at least struggle at some point very early in there career before coming through. Floyd clearly has tools, find me a scout that doesn't believe that and I'd be shocked (now i could see a scout saying he's a risk or that he isn't the lock he once was, but I don't think you'd see a scout, who based on stuff alone, didn't think Floyd was worthy of being a major league starter). Whether it pans out or not, I don't know, but he's going to get his chance to open the season and show what he can do.

 

If he sucks, the Sox will call someone else up or go with Masset or trade for someone. They probably will be in a tough spot when it comes to competing if a few of the starters fail, but we all know that the pitchers will have to pitch and Danks/Floyd will have to grow up in a hurry if the club plans on beating Detroit & Cleveland and winning this division.

You can't compare Floyd to those guys. He's spent parts of 4 seasons in the majors, and his best success was when he came up in 2004. I read a scouting report when he was drafted. He threw 95 in high school with a wicked curve. One scouting report said he was major league rotation-ready. He doesn't throw 95 anymore, and if Keith Law is to be believed, his curveball isn't so wicked anymore.

[joejoesox]

Jeremy Bonderman lost 20 games his first season

Greg Maddux lost 14 games and posted a 5.61 ERA in his first full season (this was in the mid 80's, so it isn't ridiculous to say if you had that Maddux pitching in this era that you would have had him post something similar to Floyd)

Robin Ventura was absolutely brutal to start his major league career

 

Point being, most young baseball players don't experience immediate success. They go through the motions, make adjustments, and the good ones pull out and become something, the bad ones falter.

 

Gavin Floyd has overcame his piss poor showing in Philly and came to Chicago and instead of wallowing around, he got himself back in track and earned a lot of respect based on the way he took the ball every time out down in Charlotte and had a positive attitude and eventually impressed Ozzie/Kenny/Cooper late in the season in Chicago and has came in this spring and continued to impress (sans today start).

 

Bottom line, the history of baseball shows that most young players fail or at least struggle at some point very early in there career before coming through. Floyd clearly has tools, find me a scout that doesn't believe that and I'd be shocked (now i could see a scout saying he's a risk or that he isn't the lock he once was, but I don't think you'd see a scout, who based on stuff alone, didn't think Floyd was worthy of being a major league starter). Whether it pans out or not, I don't know, but he's going to get his chance to open the season and show what he can do.

 

If he sucks, the Sox will call someone else up or go with Masset or trade for someone. They probably will be in a tough spot when it comes to competing if a few of the starters fail, but we all know that the pitchers will have to pitch and Danks/Floyd will have to grow up in a hurry if the club plans on beating Detroit & Cleveland and winning this division.

 

and anthony reyes threw a 1-hitter and lost to the sox in 2006

 

gavin floyd used to have a great curveball, one of the best in MiLB, but over the last couple years he's lost it completely, and also has a problem throwing the ball for strikes, even when he's trying to get one over he's often-times missing the plate completely

 

and this is just about every single time i've seen him pitch, so unless he has a dead-arm every time he goes out....

 

[Chisoxfn]

There's a lot of people who thought Gavin Floyd sucked long before spring training and this one particular outing. Maybe he does have a dead arm, but he pitched 7 innings up until today and gave up more runs than strikeouts. For a guy who supposedly looks so great, and has top-of-the rotation stuff, its not so impressive.

Have you seen me anywhere post that I wanted the Sox to stick with Jose/John/Gavin in the rotation. f*** no, I've long stated that I'm not comfortable with the rotation but it is what it is and it is absoultely moronic to b**** every time a guy starts, especially when he has been solid this spring.

 

I buy into the fact that Gavin hasn't proved himself and I'm not here saying give him a full season, but I do believe the Sox traded for him and have faith for him and given what the Sox have, he has earned himself a shot for the rotation. I'd give him about 7 or 8 starts this season (that could be less if he is absoultely horrendous during his first few starts) and than we'll see. If he still sucks than I'd be all for finding someone else, but if he's getting better and better each start and giving the Sox a chance to win I don't have a problem keeping him and seeing how he develops (afterall, one full season isn't much for a young player and there are plenty of quality major leaguers who sucked in there first full season).

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

I will go on record that there's no way he has an ERA better than 5.00 this season. If he makes a minimum of 10 starts, and has an ERA better than 5.00, I will never post on this site again.

 

You have even less faith in him than I do.

[santo=dorf]

 

But show me a 10 game winner with a 5.50 ERA, I will show you a lucky man. (this is not to say that Floyd's ERA is or will be 5.50).

Danny Wrong: 14-12 with a 5.18 ERA in 2002

 

[joejoesox]

 

But show me a 10 game winner with a 5.50 ERA, I will show you a lucky man. (this is not to say that Floyd's ERA is or will be 5.50).

 

i like our chances if he posts a 5.50 era in '08

 

(i dunno if i wanted to make that green or not)

 

[BaseballNick]

I'd rather have Masset start than Floyd.

 

Poreda has been pretty good this spring. 3IP, 5Ks, 0ER yesterday. Another impressive performance, albeit in a B game. He's quickly showing that he's above that level of play. Too bad we're not likely to see him in a Sox uni for another couple of years.

[Dick Allen]

Danny Wrong: 14-12 with a 5.18 ERA in 2002

John Snyder was 9-12 with a 6.68 ERA in 1999. I think he started out 7-0.

[fathom]

You can't compare Floyd to those guys. He's spent parts of 4 seasons in the majors, and his best success was when he came up in 2004. I read a scouting report when he was drafted. He threw 95 in high school with a wicked curve. One scouting report said he was major league rotation-ready. He doesn't throw 95 anymore, and if Keith Law is to be believed, his curveball isn't so wicked anymore.

 

Yeah, I don't get where people are saying he has a great arm.

[fathom]

Poreda has been pretty good this spring. 3IP, 5Ks, 0ER yesterday. Another impressive performance, albeit in a B game. He's quickly showing that he's above that level of play. Too bad we're not likely to see him in a Sox uni for another couple of years.

 

We'll see him sooner than most expected. KW and Hawk were gushing over him yesterday.

[Balta1701]

 

But show me a 10 game winner with a 5.50 ERA, I will show you a lucky man. (this is not to say that Floyd's ERA is or will be 5.50).

Players in MLB last year with 10+ wins and an ERA over 5:

Jeremy Bonderman

Jamie Moyer

Paul Maholm

Dave Bush

Kevin Millwood

Dontrelle Willis

Claudio Vargas

Mike Mussina

Mark Hendrickson

Kameron Loe

Josh Towers

Byung-Hyun Kim

Adam Eaton.

[Chisoxfn]

You can't compare Floyd to those guys. He's spent parts of 4 seasons in the majors, and his best success was when he came up in 2004. I read a scouting report when he was drafted. He threw 95 in high school with a wicked curve. One scouting report said he was major league rotation-ready. He doesn't throw 95 anymore, and if Keith Law is to be believed, his curveball isn't so wicked anymore.

I would completely agree with you that he isn't quite as good as the Floyd I saw in 04, because he was freaking nasty, much nastier that he is today. However, I've seen him snap plenty of good curves in a Sox uni and he still has a little above average velocity.

 

I don't believe he'll be a #2 like Ozzie and Kenny state, but I also think he'll have a servicable major league career and he does have some upside because guys with his curve don't grow on trees. But if you guys want to debate it, instead of just telling me how much he sucks, why not create a thread indicating which minor leaguer you would want starting instead of Gavin or discuss other options for the Sox if the current pitchers don't deliver.

 

Like I said, I know at times its nice just to get a f***, he blows today off your chest, but we don't need a new thread every day with the same old whining and complaining in it. And I'm dead serious, I've I have to I'll just create one massive thread for peoples whining and complaining to go to (well the unproductive kind such as posts that go, god he f***ing blows or Ozzie is a dumbass). Now if the thread is Ozzie lost us this game and this is how (with someone listing off strategy a,b,c and what he should have done...awesome, I considering that intelligent debate and am all for it).

[Chisoxfn]

We'll see him sooner than most expected. KW and Hawk were gushing over him yesterday.

I don't know, but I have heard from someone that works in the Sox system and they were saying how freaking high everyone is on him (which is contrary to the stuff Bureau has stated, which is again why I think you ahve to take any persons opinion as just one opinion). But he definitely has an electric arm and from what I've heard he's really been developing a nasty slider (but it is an inconsistent one).

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Players in MLB last year with 10+ wins and an ERA over 5:

Jeremy Bonderman

Jamie Moyer

Paul Maholm

Dave Bush

Kevin Millwood

Dontrelle Willis

Claudio Vargas

Mike Mussina

Mark Hendrickson

Kameron Loe

Josh Towers

Byung-Hyun Kim

Adam Eaton.

 

Lucky, every one of them.

 

And there is a difference between being lucky and good.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Greg The Bull Luzinski

[Chisoxfn]

Wins are a team stat. Why don't you judge him on ERA, IP, WHIP, K?

 

I don't want to beat up on Floyd too much, but considering our "win now" approach, his lack of options and his past record, he needs to put up something.

I agree, this is put up or shut up time for him. Just like it will be for Grossman/Orton in Chicago and if BA gets a chance he'll be in that exact same boat as well.