Gavin Floyd

[fathom]

I don't know, but I have heard from someone that works in the Sox system and they were saying how freaking high everyone is on him (which is contrary to the stuff Bureau has stated, which is again why I think you ahve to take any persons opinion as just one opinion). But he definitely has an electric arm and from what I've heard he's really been developing a nasty slider (but it is an inconsistent one).

 

I don't believe Bureau that a scout got fired for recommending Poreda. If that's true, then KW is the biggest liar in history. He sounded more excited about Poreda than anyone else yesterday, and went out of his way to bring up details about his stuff.

[joejoesox]

back to game topic:

 

creeping back up on haren, 4 runs is great even though it is raining

 

also, why wasn't OC running hard around the bases to score? there were 2 outs, very non-heads up, even though he scored, it seemed as if he slowed down on the bases, he should've been running full-bore

[Dick Allen]

BTW, they have the biggest hot dogs at TEP.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't believe Bureau that a scout got fired for recommending Poreda. If that's true, then KW is the biggest liar in history. He sounded more excited about Poreda than anyone else yesterday, and went out of his way to bring up details about his stuff.

Poreda is the type of pick the Sox organization wants more of. Poreda was a pick which was heavily influenced by Ken Williams or at least that is the hint I've always gotten from people (again though, I don't know any of this as fact, but it makes sense to me).

 

Kenny was sick of staying safe and staying away from high upside guys. Hell, look at the Sox system and when was the last time they had a guy who a scout could legitimately look at and say he has all star potential, maybe more.

 

Chris Young is about the only one I can think of and before that you'd have to be talking about Borchard. Poreda is a guy that if all goes well, you are talking about someone who could be a premiere starter in baseball.

 

Note: There is a s***load that can go wrong with Aaron Poreda and there are obviously still major holes in his game (hence why he was available when they Sox selected him) but still, he was more of that high upside/high ceiling guy that Kenny wants to fill the system with (and he's pretty much been willing to trade trade trade anyone that doesn't meet those projections in his eyes for the most part, although I don't believe he wanted to deal De Los Santos or Gio but it just so happens to be that Swisher is an all star type talent with a great contract).

 

I am very intrigued to see what the Sox do in this draft and I won't be surprised when they end up spending some money on some mid round guys (ie, taking some guys who slid and giving them decent money; nothing crazy like the Angels/Red Sox Yanks do, and I wish the Sox would, but I think they'll be very agressive this draft, especially if they end up moving Uribe/Crede).

[Balta1701]

back to game topic:

 

creeping back up on haren, 4 runs is great even though it is raining

No it's not great. Dan Haren clearly sucks. How dare he give up 4 runs in a spring training game!

[fathom]

No it's not great. Dan Haren clearly sucks. How dare he give up 4 runs in a spring training game!

 

Haren's windup and look makes him seem like a Japanese pitcher.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Actually, taking Haren out of the A's uniform is what makes him suck. Now we own his ass.

[RME JICO]

So today's game shows that Floyd and Haren both suck. Haren lets up 4ER in 5 innings to a 72 win team and Floyd lets up 4ER in 4 innings to a playoff team.

 

or

 

it is ST and pitchers are not pitching full speed yet.

[DBAHO]

The pessimists are out in force today I see.

 

FWIW, I don't really care what a pitcher does in Spring Training. They have a bad outing or 2, and suddenly the sky is falling. Take Contreras's outing the other day for example ("Oh he's going to suck again this season now!!!")

 

Floyd's best pitch is his curveball, in Arizona it's not going to break like it is in Chicago.

 

He deserves an opportunity to show what he can do in a rotation to start the season. He had around a 3.42 ERA IIRC in the last 6 starts of the season, which showed maybe he was finally getting it.

 

It just seems people are already setting him up for failure when the season hasn't even begun.

[southsideirish71]

There's a lot of people who thought Gavin Floyd sucked long before spring training and this one particular outing. Maybe he does have a dead arm, but he pitched 7 innings up until today and gave up more runs than strikeouts. For a guy who supposedly looks so great, and has top-of-the rotation stuff, its not so impressive.

 

I love the amazing irony in the fact that you think Floyd sucks and use stats to bone up your argument. Yet according to you the tub of goo that plays 2nd is a talented guy, who is just motivation and heart away from a 30 homer season. And you think that guy will shine this year, not based on declining peripherals and stats but on the fact that he is a FA after this year.

 

Floyd may suck, in fact any of the young players may suck. But at this point, we need to see what we have. I would rather give these kids the benefit of the doubt and to give them an honest opportunity. If they suck or dont work out, they are cheap enough to get rid of. I mean you preach the patience of sticking with an overpaid overweight not so good 2nd baseman that we had to trade our best chip to get his replacement.

 

And for those quoting Keith Law, this is the same Keith Law who stated the Fields needs to work on hitting the curveball because he can hit the fastball already. That doesnt pass the smell test as Fields can hit the breaking pitch, but had problems with fastballs above the belt. He watched one game, and wrote an article based on that.

 

I like the fact that we are going into this season with Floyd and Danks. I only hope we can see Ramirez at 2nd soon, and some of the other younger players.

Edited March 16, 2008 by southsideirish71

[Flash Tizzle]

I don't know, but I have heard from someone that works in the Sox system and they were saying how freaking high everyone is on him (which is contrary to the stuff Bureau has stated, which is again why I think you ahve to take any persons opinion as just one opinion). But he definitely has an electric arm and from what I've heard he's really been developing a nasty slider (but it is an inconsistent one).

When I heard Williams gushing about him yesterday I wondered when did the development of his slider come along. From most accounts at the end of last season, he was simply blowing away lower level competition with a high 90's fastball. Is this something he has been tinkering with over the offseason? Has it really progressed that much?

 

Six spring training games remain to be televised. I have to imagine we'll see him pitch atleast once during this span.

[Flash Tizzle]

Floyd may suck, in fact any of the young players may suck. But at this point, we need to see what we have. I would rather give these kids the benefit of the doubt and to give them an honest opportunity. If they suck or dont work out, they are cheap enough to get rid of. I mean you preach the patience of sticking with an overpaid overweight not so good 2nd baseman that we had to trade our best chip to get his replacement.

I'm as pessimistic as anyone concerning......well........everything, but I ultimately don't care about Floyd because I'm not optimistic we're going to do anything this season. If not Floyd, who else to replace him -- Ohka, Broadway, Egbert, Masset? Actually, I'd rather have Masset than Contreras anyday, simply to guage what we have for 10 million less.

 

Look at what's at stake -- if he's good, we have a cheap starting pitcher. If he's bad, we throw his ass into the bullpen and continue sucking.

 

Sure, I'll still insult him if he does poorly or commend him after a good outing; but I'm not going to insist he be replaced by someone else in Spring Training. There is no one else. I suppose if I were convinced this team had a legitimate shot of reaching the playoffs I'd care, but since I don't, it doesn't mean much. I'm much more concerned about the future of our minor league system than anything currently on the roster.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Flash Tizzle

[Gregory Pratt]

When I heard Williams gushing about him yesterday I wondered when did the development of his slider come along. From most accounts at the end of last season, he was simply blowing away lower level competition with a high 90's fastball. Is this something he has been tinkering with over the offseason? Has it really progressed that much?

 

Six spring training games remain to be televised. I have to imagine we'll see him pitch atleast once during this span.

 

Well, it's possible that the slider doesn't exist/is being greatly exaggerated. Wouldn't be the first time we were...mistaken like with Masset's fastball.

[Balta1701]

Well, it's possible that the slider doesn't exist/is being greatly exaggerated. Wouldn't be the first time we were...mistaken like with Masset's fastball.

How were we mistaken? KW said he was just a step below Jenks in velocity, and I think that turned out completely correct. It may have been correct because of Bobby's dropping velocity, but that doesn't mean it was incorrect.

[fathom]

How were we mistaken? KW said he was just a step below Jenks in velocity, and I think that turned out completely correct. It may have been correct because of Bobby's dropping velocity, but that doesn't mean it was incorrect.

 

KW said he throws in the 95-96 mph range.

[Flash Tizzle]

Well, it's possible that the slider doesn't exist/is being greatly exaggerated. Wouldn't be the first time we were...mistaken like with Masset's fastball.

That's a real possibility. When Williams is going on about Poreda's slider being the kind where you swinging from your back foot, I hope he realizes people who follow baseball religiously will be judging that. He probably doesn't care, but I know I'm tired of false expectations being applied to situations where it isn't necessary. Don't build up Poreda. Let his pitching do the talking It serves no purpose because he's not going to be traded in June (I'd imagine....) and 95% of the people watching the game couldn't care less.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Flash Tizzle

[Dick Allen]

I love the amazing irony in the fact that you think Floyd sucks and use stats to bone up your argument. Yet according to you the tub of goo that plays 2nd is a talented guy, who is just motivation and heart away from a 30 homer season. And you think that guy will shine this year, not based on declining peripherals and stats but on the fact that he is a FA after this year.

 

Floyd may suck, in fact any of the young players may suck. But at this point, we need to see what we have. I would rather give these kids the benefit of the doubt and to give them an honest opportunity. If they suck or dont work out, they are cheap enough to get rid of. I mean you preach the patience of sticking with an overpaid overweight not so good 2nd baseman that we had to trade our best chip to get his replacement.

 

And for those quoting Keith Law, this is the same Keith Law who stated the Fields needs to work on hitting the curveball because he can hit the fastball already. That doesnt pass the smell test as Fields can hit the breaking pitch, but had problems with fastballs above the belt. He watched one game, and wrote an article based on that.

 

I like the fact that we are going into this season with Floyd and Danks. I only hope we can see Ramirez at 2nd soon, and some of the other younger players.

Juan Uribe was the starting SS for a world championship team. He has had some success in the majors and is among the leaders in homers and rbi at that position in all of baseball since 2005. All the other numbers suck, I'll give you that, and they might suck again this year. All of Gavin Floyd's numbers suck, but he is gushed at so much it makes me sick. Listening when KW and Hawk and DJ were talking yesterday, you would be amazed if anyone were to ever reach base against him . I've never posted Uribe would have a 30 homer season, I've just said he's capable. Giving Floyd a rotation spot based on his September is foolish. They have mentioned his 2 gems against Detroit last year, emphasizing Detroit's "tough" line-up. When Floyd faced Detroit's full line-up he got lit up. When he was basically facing a split squad line-up he shut them down. There is really no back-up plan. At least Uribe has to earn his role.

[Flash Tizzle]

How were we mistaken? KW said he was just a step below Jenks in velocity, and I think that turned out completely correct. It may have been correct because of Bobby's dropping velocity, but that doesn't mean it was incorrect.

He didn't mean that at all. As Fathom noted, he meant "tick below (98mph) Jenks" not "tick below (94 mph) Jenks."

 

Someone gave him incorrect scouting reports and there's no other way to spin it. Either that, or someone's radar guns were off.

[Vance Law]

On this one I'll agree. A guy has a bad outing in the spring right around the time that Steve Stone keeps telling me every pitcher goes through some version of a dead arm period, and the sky is falling and we're all doomed.

 

Precisely. Gavin Floyd had a bad outing because he is bad and will be bad in every game he pitches this year. Dan Haren has a bad outing because he is good. He is good because he is not on our team.

 

 

[DBAHO]

Juan Uribe was the starting SS for a world championship team. He has had some success in the majors and is among the leaders in homers and rbi at that position in all of baseball since 2005. All the other numbers suck, I'll give you that, and they might suck again this year. All of Gavin Floyd's numbers suck, but he is gushed at so much it makes me sick. Listening when KW and Hawk and DJ were talking yesterday, you would be amazed if anyone were to ever reach base against him . I've never posted Uribe would have a 30 homer season, I've just said he's capable. Giving Floyd a rotation spot based on his September is foolish. They have mentioned his 2 gems against Detroit last year, emphasizing Detroit's "tough" line-up. When Floyd faced Detroit's full line-up he got lit up. When he was basically facing a split squad line-up he shut them down. There is really no back-up plan. At least Uribe has to earn his role.

Well there have been a lot of bad starters on world championship teams before. Just look at Julio Lugo from last season.

 

Hitting for power is Uribe's only asset at the plate. He's certainly not good at making contact and not striking out.

 

He'll be one of the worst 2nd baseman offensively if he starts this season IMHO. His numbers have been decreasing steadily since 2004.

 

I'd say Floyd has earned a chance based on his last 6 starts, considering that the Sox didn't go out and sign a Kyle Lohse type of starter for $7-8M. You could argue he's got more of a right than Danks to pitch in the rotation based on how both guys ending up pitching at the end of the season.

 

And you're right you shouldn't just look at numbers in September, way too small of a sample size to use, but at least you want a guy to finish off the season strong, and that's what Floyd did.

[Dick Allen]

Well there have been a lot of bad starters on world championship teams before. Just look at Julio Lugo from last season.

 

Hitting for power is Uribe's only asset at the plate. He's certainly not good at making contact and not striking out.

 

He'll be one of the worst 2nd baseman offensively if he starts this season IMHO. His numbers have been decreasing steadily since 2004.

 

I'd say Floyd has earned a chance based on his last 6 starts, considering that the Sox didn't go out and sign a Kyle Lohse type of starter for $7-8M. You could argue he's got more of a right than Danks to pitch in the rotation based on how both guys ending up pitching at the end of the season.

 

And you're right you shouldn't just look at numbers in September, way too small of a sample size to use, but at least you want a guy to finish off the season strong, and that's what Floyd did.

It is shocking to me that Danks and Floyd were handed 2 spots in the rotation. I thought for sure they would sign a Colon or Benson or someone, not that they are a lock to be any better but to provide some competition. Back to Uribe, he's been a very good defensive player as well most of his White Sox career, and if he starts he had to beat out Richar and Ramirez.

[DBAHO]

Hearing about Colon's velocity, I too am annoyed that the Sox didn't end up signing him on a minor league deal.

 

Worst situation is that Danks starts the season off in AAA. If Floyd doesn't start well, he could be released, and then you call up Danks, if Colon has shown that he can pitch ok.

 

Uribe wasn't very good defensively last season. RZR of below .900, and Orlando Cabrera had something around .975 IIRC. Quite a difference.

 

Just showed how lazy Juan was last season I guess. Richar he is beating out because Richar hasn't been healthy with his back and the visa issues, while Ramirez was always going to start in AAA because of his rustiness defensively.

 

Just seems like Uribe may win 2nd base by default.

[Dick Allen]

Hearing about Colon's velocity, I too am annoyed that the Sox didn't end up signing him on a minor league deal.

 

Worst situation is that Danks starts the season off in AAA. If Floyd doesn't start well, he could be released, and then you call up Danks, if Colon has shown that he can pitch ok.

 

Uribe wasn't very good defensively last season. RZR of below .900, and Orlando Cabrera had something around .975 IIRC. Quite a difference.

 

Just showed how lazy Juan was last season I guess. Richar he is beating out because Richar hasn't been healthy with his back and the visa issues, while Ramirez was always going to start in AAA because of his rustiness defensively.

 

Just seems like Uribe may win 2nd base by default.

He's hitting .333 this spring, and he has a slight different approach. As far as Colon, they made him an offer, I just wonder what it was because Boston's offer seemed more than reasonable. If he can't get the job done, he's not going to make much and if he makes 30 starts he gets $7 million, which is $5 million less than Garland. If he's healthy enough to make 30 starts, his numbers should be equal to or better than Garland's.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Hearing about Colon's velocity, I too am annoyed that the Sox didn't end up signing him on a minor league deal.

 

Worst situation is that Danks starts the season off in AAA. If Floyd doesn't start well, he could be released, and then you call up Danks, if Colon has shown that he can pitch ok.

 

Uribe wasn't very good defensively last season. RZR of below .900, and Orlando Cabrera had something around .975 IIRC. Quite a difference.

 

Just showed how lazy Juan was last season I guess. Richar he is beating out because Richar hasn't been healthy with his back and the visa issues, while Ramirez was always going to start in AAA because of his rustiness defensively.

 

Just seems like Uribe may win 2nd base by default.

I think another part of the story as to why no one else was signed was that the team probably does have some confidence in one out of Broadway, Sisco, Egbert, Masset, or Haeger being able to step in if one of the rotation guys goes down. People are pissed enough about the money being spent on Crede and Uribe, I can imagine how annoyed people would be if the team signed a pitcher for $3 million only to see him released mid-May because the guys we have are actually doing their job.

 

But at some level, I do think that Uribe, Danks, and Floyd do have some similarities, because there is actually a line forming behind all of them. You don't necessarily know what you have in any of the guys in those lines yet, but there is some depth at each of those spots.

 

If Richar had a good spring, he'd have deserved the 2nd base spot after his work last season. But he's been hurt, so Uribe gets put in the "Last chance" boat along with Floyd, probably Masset, maybe MMac, etc.

[DBAHO]

He's hitting .333 this spring, and he has a slight different approach. As far as Colon, they made him an offer, I just wonder what it was because Boston's offer seemed more than reasonable. If he can't get the job done, he's not going to make much and if he makes 30 starts he gets $7 million, which is $5 million less than Garland. If he's healthy enough to make 30 starts, his numbers should be equal to or better than Garland's.

Well they've tried to change Juan's swing before, and he's always gone back to the old approach without much success. Don't know why he gave the timing kick away (I'm sure southsideirish71 will tell us all about it).

 

I don't know if Colon would have the same numbers as Garland, but I think if he was 90% healthy or so, something around 4.50-5 ERA is possible for him.

 

Signing him could have allowed you to use Floyd in a Roberts deal possibly also. Now that's not going to happen obviously.