More Speculation About the Starting CF Job

[JohnCangelosi]

From the WhiteSox.com website:

 

Ramirez started in center field Monday, indicating he could be in mind for a utility role. Factoring in 12 pitchers, Ozuna and Toby Hall as reserve locks, Uribe at second and Jerry Owens as the starting center fielder, two roster spots exist between Brian Anderson, Ramirez and Carlos Quentin.

 

Should I read into this? This is from the official website itself...I don't believe it's just a coincidence nor is it just one writers opinion??? What am I missing here?

 

Link

[shipps]

IMO Whitesox.com is not "straight from the horses mouth" like its reputation of being.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

It's from a writer on the white sox website. It is not from Ozzie or KW therefore it doesnt yet mean anything.

[Kyyle23]

White Sox Spring Training Competition for CF

 

2 men enter, 1 man leaves(to the bench)

 

If JO keeps dropping balls and BA keeps hitting them, it isnt gonna be a choice. I think I will wait until the season starts before i get upset about the starting lineup

[heirdog]

I know we have a log jam of sorts for reserve players but some how, some way I hope Bourgeioise makes the team. He reminds me of Ozuna in '05. He seems to make good things happen and he is hungry (not in the Jenks/Uribe sense but to prove himself).

 

We could have such a versatile bench with Ozuna, Ramirez and Bourgeioise. Quentin and Richar need to get healthy and AAA is probably their March 31 destination. I hope Ramirez beats out Uribe at 2nd so we can keep Anderson as the back-up/ platoon OF and give him one more shot.

 

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I know we have a log jam of sorts for reserve players but some how, some way I hope Bourgeioise makes the team. He reminds me of Ozuna in '05. He seems to make good things happen and he is hungry (not in the Jenks/Uribe sense but to prove himself).

 

We could have such a versatile bench with Ozuna, Ramirez and Bourgeioise. Quentin and Richar need to get healthy and AAA is probably their March 31 destination. I hope Ramirez beats out Uribe at 2nd so we can keep Anderson as the back-up/ platoon OF and give him one more shot.

 

Bourgeois wont make the team. He is a Pablo clone with a little more power. I believe Pablo is the in the final year of his contract thoguh, so assuming JB doesnt fall on his face this year he'll probably assume that role in 2009.

[Princess Dye]

Bourgeois wont make the team. He is a Pablo clone with a little more power.

 

I dont disagree with your prediction, but reading the above... i cant help think this is even further a justification to put him on the 08 squad. Pablo's no spring chicken

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I dont disagree with your prediction, but reading the above... i cant help think this is even further a justification to put him on the 08 squad. Pablo's no spring chicken

 

 

But he's under contract and he does his job well and has proven such. Bourgeois has yet to see a pitch thrown in an MLB game.

[iamshack]

I dont disagree with your prediction, but reading the above... i cant help think this is even further a justification to put him on the 08 squad. Pablo's no spring chicken

 

But Pablo's making $1.05 million this season, and was paid $800k last season for only 78 at-bats, so he's pretty likely not to be toiling in Charlotte this season...

[Kalapse]

From the WhiteSox.com website:

 

Ramirez started in center field Monday, indicating he could be in mind for a utility role. Factoring in 12 pitchers, Ozuna and Toby Hall as reserve locks, Uribe at second and Jerry Owens as the starting center fielder, two roster spots exist between Brian Anderson, Ramirez and Carlos Quentin.

 

Should I read into this? This is from the official website itself...I don't believe it's just a coincidence nor is it just one writers opinion??? What am I missing here?

 

Link

Your link is broken. What story is this from?

[Dick Allen]

I think there will be a trade or 2 before the season starts.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think there will be a trade or 2 before the season starts.

Agree.

 

[iamshack]

I think there will be a trade or 2 before the season starts.

 

I sure hope so.

[Balta1701]

I sure hope so.

Unless the name is Konerko, I'm not sure I actually want there to be a trade (Although I'd still be a fan of moving Crede's contract). My simplistic justification for that statement is that if we move anyone right now, we're doing so from a position of weakness. Anderson, Owens, Quentin, MMac, any of those guys we'd move have their values depressed compared to where they will be if they can put together a few solid months. The other team would be looking to pick up a bargain. You don't build a successful team by being the guy the other team steals a bargain player from, you build a team by being the guy stealing all the bargains and maximizing their value.

[beck72]

Owens and Anderson should be the last OF spots, with Owens getting the majority of playing time. Quentin needs to go to AAA and get 100%. Anderson has been playing all 3 OF spots and will likely be a defensive replacement/ spot starter vs LHP. I could see if Owens was in CF, late in games, move in Anderson to CF, move Owens into LF and slide Swisher to RF.

[Princess Dye]

Do we want a trade just to rid ourselves of this worry? There's nothing wrong with sending people to AAA. They can come back. Thome will find a way to get hurt, and we'll eventually need Quentin up (or whoever it is) to fill in for Swish when he's at 1st or dh.

[iamshack]

Unless the name is Konerko, I'm not sure I actually want there to be a trade (Although I'd still be a fan of moving Crede's contract). My simplistic justification for that statement is that if we move anyone right now, we're doing so from a position of weakness. Anderson, Owens, Quentin, MMac, any of those guys we'd move have their values depressed compared to where they will be if they can put together a few solid months. The other team would be looking to pick up a bargain. You don't build a successful team by being the guy the other team steals a bargain player from, you build a team by being the guy stealing all the bargains and maximizing their value.

 

That's what my hang-up is, with one exception- I wouldn't mind moving Owens right now, but I think that is the last guy they want to move.

 

I think you're oversimplifying it a bit though. The question isn't just "are we maximizing our value," but also "are we hurting our chances for success (both long-term and short-term) by having this glut of players at the same positions." And then you have to weigh the two against one another.

 

Sure, it may be best (in terms of returns in trade) to let guys like Owens or Uribe or Richar or Anderson increase their value with a few solid months, but is it best to have them out there in the first place trying to accomplish that?

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't disagree more with the team's OF stance right now, so my prospective is probably a bit skewed. But I just don't see any value in Owens being on this ballclub this season considering what Anderson is doing and what Quentin will do.

 

I guess that's what might lead me to agree with your initial statement about Konerko.

 

[Balta1701]

That's what my hang-up is, with one exception- I wouldn't mind moving Owens right now, but I think that is the last guy they want to move.

 

I think you're oversimplifying it a bit though. The question isn't just "are we maximizing our value," but also "are we hurting our chances for success (both long-term and short-term) by having this glut of players at the same positions." And then you have to weigh the two against one another.

 

Sure, it may be best (in terms of returns in trade) to let guys like Owens or Uribe or Richar or Anderson increase their value with a few solid months, but is it best to have them out there in the first place trying to accomplish that?

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't disagree more with the team's OF stance right now, so my prospective is probably a bit skewed. But I just don't see any value in Owens being on this ballclub this season considering what Anderson is doing and what Quentin will do.

 

I guess that's what might lead me to agree with your initial statement about Konerko.

Even with Owens, I think he has a shot to have his value go up quite a bit this season even if he and Anderson are treated as basically platoon partners. Owens hasn't put up a full season of the sort that will convince other teams that he can be a legit leadoff hitter. Let's just say, hypothetically, he could put up a .280 average, a .350+ OBP, and 50 or so steals in 400 at bats. Numbers which are at the high end of his performance but certainly by no means out of the question. Look what we gave up for Scott Podsednik on a down season.

 

I think we're actually in a position of luxury. If all 4 of these guys make it, then next offseason, we're trading from a position of strength. Yes, we'd need to trade one. But we'd have 4, maybe 5 guys that we could choose between on who we wanted to move. We could move a cheap guy, keep the vets, and go for more of a power team with a ton of youth still permeating the field thanks to the young IF's, or we could move one of the Vets and try to bring back a major piece like a pitcher.

 

If one of these guys blows up, we're in a position where we don't need to play them as they each have options. Right now I think that there's little downside to holding all of them and trying to work all of them in as the season progresses.

[iamshack]

Even with Owens, I think he has a shot to have his value go up quite a bit this season even if he and Anderson are treated as basically platoon partners. Owens hasn't put up a full season of the sort that will convince other teams that he can be a legit leadoff hitter. Let's just say, hypothetically, he could put up a .280 average, a .350+ OBP, and 50 or so steals in 400 at bats. Numbers which are at the high end of his performance but certainly by no means out of the question. Look what we gave up for Scott Podsednik on a down season.

 

I think we're actually in a position of luxury. If all 4 of these guys make it, then next offseason, we're trading from a position of strength. Yes, we'd need to trade one. But we'd have 4, maybe 5 guys that we could choose between on who we wanted to move. We could move a cheap guy, keep the vets, and go for more of a power team with a ton of youth still permeating the field thanks to the young IF's, or we could move one of the Vets and try to bring back a major piece like a pitcher.

 

If one of these guys blows up, we're in a position where we don't need to play them as they each have options. Right now I think that there's little downside to holding all of them and trying to work all of them in as the season progresses.

 

Well, IF Owens does do that, he won't be traded, which means you've got to move Anderson or Quentin. Given that I truly believe both of them have much higher upsides than Owens, I think we would only hurt ourselves by dealing one or both of them.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're not factoring in the psychological effect of putting Anderson and/or Quentin in Charlotte might have on them. Especially BA.

 

If it were me, I would stick with what I truly believe in, which is that Quentin will be a very good player, thus affording me the ability to trade Owens at the very least and possibly Konerko as well. However, as we have said many times, there does not appear to be much of a market for Konerko outside of the Yankees, and I can't imagine getting any of their top 3 young pitchers for him. You'd probably get Austin Jackson and change.

 

It's definitely a tough situation, but it's one I would operate with confidence from. Owens would be gone, BA would start the season in CF, Quentin would go to Charlotte along with Richar and Ramirez, with Quentin being the first one called up should Thome/Konerko/Dye suffer an injury.

[Wanne]

Well, IF Owens does do that, he won't be traded, which means you've got to move Anderson or Quentin. Given that I truly believe both of them have much higher upsides than Owens, I think we would only hurt ourselves by dealing one or both of them.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're not factoring in the psychological effect of putting Anderson and/or Quentin in Charlotte might have on them. Especially BA.

 

If it were me, I would stick with what I truly believe in, which is that Quentin will be a very good player, thus affording me the ability to trade Owens at the very least and possibly Konerko as well. However, as we have said many times, there does not appear to be much of a market for Konerko outside of the Yankees, and I can't imagine getting any of their top 3 young pitchers for him. You'd probably get Austin Jackson and change.

 

It's definitely a tough situation, but it's one I would operate with confidence from. Owens would be gone, BA would start the season in CF, Quentin would go to Charlotte along with Richar and Ramirez, with Quentin being the first one called up should Thome/Konerko/Dye suffer an injury.

 

I understand what you're sayin' shack...but it just doesn't make sense to me to move Paulie at this point...not with the production you'd be losing in the lineup...especially just to clear some space for an outfielder essentially. This team would be better obviously moving Crede...but in addition to him any of the following are expendible IMO for the right return: Uribe, Richar, Owens, Broadway, Haeger, Thornton...and probably Logan (but I've really like what I've seen from him so far this year). I agree that Quentin's upside is too great to even consider moving him. And you're right...it is a tough situation...but one of strength which is nice for a change. That's why Kenny gets the big buckos.

[southsideirish71]

I understand what you're sayin' shack...but it just doesn't make sense to me to move Paulie at this point...not with the production you'd be losing in the lineup...especially just to clear some space for an outfielder essentially. This team would be better obviously moving Crede...but in addition to him any of the following are expendible IMO for the right return: Uribe, Richar, Owens, Broadway, Haeger, Thornton...and probably Logan (but I've really like what I've seen from him so far this year). I agree that Quentin's upside is too great to even consider moving him. And you're right...it is a tough situation...but one of strength which is nice for a change. That's why Kenny gets the big buckos.

 

 

The reason you move Konerko is the fact that in May he becomes a 10 and 5 guy and basically a no-trade clause for the life of his contract.

 

 

 

[fathom]

Jason B. will not be on the major league team to start the season. Hawk and KW basically confirmed this on Saturday. The only guy I want to see get traded right now is Crede.

[RockRaines]

Bourgeois wont make the team. He is a Pablo clone with a little more power. I believe Pablo is the in the final year of his contract thoguh, so assuming JB doesnt fall on his face this year he'll probably assume that role in 2009.

With worse defense than Pablo. Bourgeois doesnt really excel at any position.

[JohnCangelosi]

Your link is broken. What story is this from?

 

Sorry, here you go:

 

http://tinyurl.com/3y8a6j

[Vance Law]

Owens and Anderson should be the last OF spots, with Owens getting the majority of playing time.

I think, as of today, that this is what may happen. But it is total f***ing insanity that Owens ("the O is for One-tool") would start over Anderson. If Quentin is not fully healthy, this is a no brainer. If all 3 of Anderson, Quentin, and Owens are totally healthy, then I don't know. Someone is the odd man out and goes to AAA. Owens remains the ideal bench guy with his speed and lefthandedness. Either way one of the 6 OF/1B/DH guys is likely to get hurt and open up a spot.

 

Of all the dumb things Ozzie does, I just hope he's learned this lesson. If Owens tweaks that groin again now closer to April, he's done. He's on the DL or he's in AAA. He is worthless if he is not really really good at stealing bases.

 

Quentin needs to go to AAA and get 100%.

Quentin needs to get 100%. And the only place for him until he does that is AAA.