Crede likely to start on opening day

[SoxWS05]

I still haven't read one valid statement on why Crede SHOULDN'T be the Sox starting third baseman. Yeah Fields hit 23HR last season, but the team was out of contention and all he did was take HR swings every AB. Fields also struck out twice a game and has trouble turning a double play. Crede is a top 5 defensive 3B is all of MLB, like someone stated earlier our pitchers need all the help they can get behind them and Fields makes our pitchers worse.

I would say they're close to equal at the plate, but still give Crede the edge. Fields has yet to play a full season. Crede's last full season was .280 30HR 90RBI. Granted that was the best year of his career but no reason to believe he won't hit 25HR and 80RBI this season.

Fields should go down the charlotte and work on his defense because he is one of the worst defensive 3b in all of MLB.

Face it, if Crede is still here come opening day he will be the starter and he should be. Crede will help the Sox win more games then Fields in 2008. I don't know why everyone overrates fields so much.

[RockRaines]

I still haven't read one valid statement on why Crede SHOULDN'T be the Sox starting third baseman. Yeah Fields hit 23HR last season, but the team was out of contention and all he did was take HR swings every AB. Fields also struck out twice a game and has trouble turning a double play. Crede is a top 5 defensive 3B is all of MLB, like someone stated earlier our pitchers need all the help they can get behind them and Fields makes our pitchers worse.

I would say they're close to equal at the plate, but still give Crede the edge. Fields has yet to play a full season. Crede's last full season was .280 30HR 90RBI. Granted that was the best year of his career but no reason to believe he won't hit 25HR and 80RBI this season.

Fields should go down the charlotte and work on his defense because he is one of the worst defensive 3b in all of MLB.

Face it, if Crede is still here come opening day he will be the starter and he should be. Crede will help the Sox win more games then Fields in 2008. I don't know why everyone overrates fields so much.

Kind of like how you overrated Crede there?

[Reddy]

I still haven't read one valid statement on why Crede SHOULDN'T be the Sox starting third baseman. Yeah Fields hit 23HR last season, but the team was out of contention and all he did was take HR swings every AB. Fields also struck out twice a game and has trouble turning a double play. Crede is a top 5 defensive 3B is all of MLB, like someone stated earlier our pitchers need all the help they can get behind them and Fields makes our pitchers worse.

I would say they're close to equal at the plate, but still give Crede the edge. Fields has yet to play a full season. Crede's last full season was .280 30HR 90RBI. Granted that was the best year of his career but no reason to believe he won't hit 25HR and 80RBI this season.

Fields should go down the charlotte and work on his defense because he is one of the worst defensive 3b in all of MLB.

Face it, if Crede is still here come opening day he will be the starter and he should be. Crede will help the Sox win more games then Fields in 2008. I don't know why everyone overrates fields so much.

 

why do you think josh cant hit 25 hr and 80 rbi?

 

 

[fathom]

I'm going to be rather disappointing if Owens is our starting CF, Uribe is our starting 2b and Crede is our starting 3b. That would be the final straw for me in terms of whether or not KW should remain our GM.

[whitesoxfan101]

I would normally say this is just a team posturing, but with our ridiculous GM I can't even give him that benefit of the doubt. This team SHOULD be rebuilding and have a lot of young players as it is, and we actually have a solid, young player at 3B. So what do we do? We can't even get that right, and we're going to start the 3B with a bad back who can't get on base and won't be back in 2009 anyways. The ineptitude of our management is pretty incredible right now.

[Princess Dye]

Fields D at 3b is the least of our worries this season.

 

Even if it's adequate, it doesnt match Crede's. Crede's D wins you games in key moments, makes your team better. Fields is the 3b who welp-just-didnt-get-to-that-GW-single.

 

If Fields offense is at its best possible next year, and Crede's is at least slightly above decent.... I dont know that Fields makes you better that way either.

 

Again, it's how much you prize next year. We have already committed to a 2008 run at this thing, so I dont think you complicate that solely to make sure that Fields has come along.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Princess Dye

[whitesoxfan101]

Even if it's adequate, it doesnt match Crede's. Crede's D wins you games in key moments, makes your team better. Fields is the 3b who welp-just-didnt-get-to-that-GW-single.

 

If Fields offense is at its best possible next year, and Crede's is at least slightly above decent.... I dont know that Fields makes you better that way either.

 

Again, it's how much you prize next year. We have already committed to a 2008 run at this thing, so I dont think you complicate that solely to make sure that Fields has come along.

 

You bring up an excellent point on committing to a 2008 run, but that's the problem. This team is not going to do anything but finish in 3rd place this year, and our management is in denial of that and won't rebuild. It looked like we would at least get to see our future at 3B, but now that is in doubt too. As for Fields defense, it can't improve unless he gets some "reps" at the major league level, and he's ready to produce offensively at a level far surperior to a normal Crede year, even if strikeouts offend a lot of people.

Edited March 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm going to be rather disappointing if Owens is our starting CF, Uribe is our starting 2b and Crede is our starting 3b. That would be the final straw for me in terms of whether or not KW should remain our GM.

Crede is still likely to be traded in ST. If he isn't, which I think only will happen if there are no reasonable offers, then what other choice is there?

 

With Richar being injured and behind, Uribe and Ramirez become the only viable options at 2B. Maybe the best case scenario is Uribe starts, with Ramirez as a utility guy, getting used to MLB pitching. If Uribe scuffles, Ramirez can take the starting role. That's really not a bad deal.

 

The OF is a bit messy, no doubt. But there is a boatload of talent - Swisher, Dye, Quentin, Owens, Anderson, maybe Ramirez... its just a matter of who is best for Opening Day. If Quentin isn't healthy/ready yet, then you pretty much have to put Swisher in LF and either Owens or Anderson in CF - or maybe a platoon of the two. If they platoon, whomever looks good against MLB pitching in the early season can take over starting. Then, you've got a solid starting OF, with a decent bench behind it. The only issue that leaves is Quentin - who I assume will take over RF when Dye moves to 1B or DH eventually.

 

Things are really not that bleak, especially for the offense. If you really want to worry about something, I'd focus on the 3-4-5 in the rotation. That's my biggest concern.

 

[Flash Tizzle]

And Josh Fields still plays 3B like Cory Snyder.

I honestly don't care. Even a poor defensive 3rd baseman in the major leagues will make plays 9/10 times. I'd rather have the occasional bobble and overthrow from Fields, factoring in his offensive potential, than stellar defense from Joe (which I doubt he'll provide) and his average offensive output.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Flash Tizzle

[SoxWS05]

You bring up an excellent point on committing to a 2008 run, but that's the problem. This team is not going to do anything but finish in 3rd place this year, and our management is in denial of that and won't rebuild. It looked like we would at least get to see our future at 3B, but now that is in doubt too. As for Fields defense, it can't improve unless he gets some "reps" at the major league level, and he's ready to produce offensively at a level far surperior to a normal Crede year, even if strikeouts offend a lot of people.

 

I'm pretty sure a ground ball in AAA is the same as a ground ball in MLB.

[SoxWS05]

I honestly don't care. Even a poor defensive baseman in the major leagues will make plays 9/10 times. I'd rather have the occasional bobble and overthrow from Fields, factoring in his offensive potential, then stellar defense from Joe (which I doubt he'll provide) and his average offensive output.

 

It's not bobbles and overthrows, it's turning the tough DP or laying out to make the play down the line. Those are the intangibles that don't show up in the stat book but change the outcome of a game/season.

[fathom]

I'm pretty sure a ground ball in AAA is the same as a ground ball in MLB.

 

Actually, it's not even close. The field conditions in the minors are as bad as Fenway and Wrigley, in terms of bounces. Fields isn't as bad on D as many think...we're not talking Ryan Braun.

[fathom]

I don't know where the link is, but a scout said last week that Crede's lost a step on defense, and would only rate as average now defensively.

[whitesoxfan101]

I'm pretty sure a ground ball in AAA is the same as a ground ball in MLB.

 

Not even close. There is just a wee bit more pressure in the majors than triple a, plus your catching groud balls from players you'll be going against for the next several years in the majors, not so much at triple a. That also doesn't keep in mind the fact that a baseball bounces a lot different on a major league kept field (true) than it does on the average AAA field, which isn't in such good shape. But you seem to think Crede is great and Fields sucks and was a fluke last year, so I am not going to convince you obviously.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't know where the link is, but a scout said last week that Crede's lost a step on defense, and would only rate as average now defensively.

Now that I think is nonsense. I've watched the games. Early on, he was quite tenative - as one would expect for what is basically a rehab assignment. But the last couple games I saw him in, he's getting back to old Joe. I think that "lost step" was a temporary artifact.

 

Lots of good reasons to trade Joe and get Fields in there. Joe losing a step on D isn't one of them.

 

[fathom]

I'd also like to say that I think the Swisher deal was idiotic considering we traded our 3 best prospects for a left fielder when we had traded our best hitting prospect for Quentin, who basically is now blocked from starting. My belief is KW thought Swisher would be able to play CF, but we quickly realized he's a disaster out there.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'd also like to say that I think the Swisher deal was idiotic considering we traded our 3 best prospects for a left fielder when we had traded our best hitting prospect for Quentin, who basically is now blocked from starting. My belief is KW thought Swisher would be able to play CF, but we quickly realized he's a disaster out there.

I haven't seen Swisher play much out there, but he didn't look like a disaster. I still think both moves were excellent. I also think that Williams is more patient than people give him credit for (and people here seem to be). Quentin will be a difference maker, probably - this year or next. Which way it goes depends on a lot of things. What is wrong with that? And I don't think they've counted Swisher out of CF yet anyway. We still have half of ST left.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't think the Swisher deal was "idiotic" but the fact we had to give up our top three prospects to get Swisher and then one of our best hitting prospects to get Quentin tells you both how bereft our system was of outfielders, and how thin our farm system is. That, and the fact we have no value for prospects and no concept of rebuilding, but we knew that already.

Edited March 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[southsideirish71]

I'd also like to say that I think the Swisher deal was idiotic considering we traded our 3 best prospects for a left fielder when we had traded our best hitting prospect for Quentin, who basically is now blocked from starting. My belief is KW thought Swisher would be able to play CF, but we quickly realized he's a disaster out there.

 

 

Swisher not playing center is more with Ozzie wanting a bantam weight track star to jump start his marlinlike offense than Swisher.

 

I would rather have Swisher in left and Anderson in center or Swisher in center and Quentin in LF than Pods JR out there.

 

 

 

[fathom]

I haven't seen Swisher play much out there, but he didn't look like a disaster. I still think both moves were excellent. I also think that Williams is more patient than people give him credit for (and people here seem to be). Quentin will be a difference maker, probably - this year or next. Which way it goes depends on a lot of things. What is wrong with that? And I don't think they've counted Swisher out of CF yet anyway. We still have half of ST left.

 

As you said earlier, KW probably would have been better off using our resources (top prospects) to get another solid starter instead of relying on our mediocre 3/4/5 in the starting rotation. I still can't believe we used Garland to get Cabrera and his one year left on his contract. Don't get me wrong, I like Swisher. However, I feel as if KW misjudged his ability to play CF, as well as the talent level of Richar and possibly Quentin.

[fathom]

Swisher not playing center is more with Ozzie wanting a bantam weight track star to jump start his marlinlike offense than Swisher.

 

I would rather have Swisher in left and Anderson in center or Swisher in center and Quentin in LF than Pods JR out there.

 

Thanks for saying what I wanted to, but didn't want to get into an Ozzie bashing debate.

[SoxWS05]

I'd also like to say that I think the Swisher deal was idiotic considering we traded our 3 best prospects for a left fielder when we had traded our best hitting prospect for Quentin, who basically is now blocked from starting. My belief is KW thought Swisher would be able to play CF, but we quickly realized he's a disaster out there.

 

Are you more concerned with having a good MLB team or AAA team? Don't over value prospects because thats all they are...prospects. I think there's list a mile long of "can't miss" prospects who never made it. If Kenny wanted a good farm system he could have it tomorrow, but he wants the White Sox to compete now our farm system.

 

I never said Fields sucks, I just said Crede gives us a better chance to win in 2008. Thats all that matters.

[Princess Dye]

I'd also like to say that I think the Swisher deal was idiotic considering we traded our 3 best prospects for a left fielder when we had traded our best hitting prospect for Quentin, who basically is now blocked from starting. My belief is KW thought Swisher would be able to play CF, but we quickly realized he's a disaster out there.

 

Swisher's age, the length and value of the contract, and that much needed OBP are all reasons to like that trade. People who slam that trade do not mention Swish's age, b/c it's a component in the terms of their own argument. And on top of that, he's shown power and OBP in a pitcher's park already.

 

My belief that trade will soon be seen as Swisher for DLS, if that, but thats me.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Princess Dye

[Reddy]

Are you more concerned with having a good MLB team or AAA team? Don't over value prospects because thats all they are...prospects. I think there's list a mile long of "can't miss" prospects who never made it. If Kenny wanted a good farm system he could have it tomorrow, but he wants the White Sox to compete now our farm system.

 

I never said Fields sucks, I just said Crede gives us a better chance to win in 2008. Thats all that matters.

 

really?

[whitesoxfan101]

Are you more concerned with having a good MLB team or AAA team? Don't over value prospects because thats all they are...prospects. I think there's list a mile long of "can't miss" prospects who never made it. If Kenny wanted a good farm system he could have it tomorrow, but he wants the White Sox to compete now our farm system.

 

I am more concerned with having a good MLB team in the long run, but we don't have that right now. Actually, I shouldn't say that because we might be pretty good, but we aren't good enough to contend with the Tigers and Indians right now, and that is what matters.

 

But anyways, the only way we are going to get our MLB team to be good again is to rebuild, and that would in the short run entail having good minor league teams which build up the young talent before it is ready for the majors. We can't get good again IMO unless we rebuild, and you can't rebuild unless you at some point have a good AAA team and farm system.

 

Now, the issue this thread started with doesn't have a ton to do with the system itself. But it's just a bad message being sent yet again by Kenny that our young players and future don't matter and we are still going for it every year, even though our roster isn't good enough to win a title or even make the playoffs.

Edited March 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101