Crede likely to start on opening day

[fathom]

Are you more concerned with having a good MLB team or AAA team? Don't over value prospects because thats all they are...prospects. I think there's list a mile long of "can't miss" prospects who never made it. If Kenny wanted a good farm system he could have it tomorrow, but he wants the White Sox to compete now our farm system.

 

We used all of our prospects to try and field a good MLB team, and as of right now, there's still a lot of holes on the team (starting rotation, CF, 2nd base, back-up catcher).

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Not to be a downer, but I think it is kind of foolish to expect to contend this year. Even if Floyd and Danks turn out to be these "top of the rotation starters" the Sox have touted them as, which is a huuuuuuuuuuuge if at that, there will still be growing pains. And even if Jerry Owens turns into a capable lead-off man (OBP .350+, high SB%) which is another monolithic if, he is going to have to make his share of adjustments as well. Ditto Fields, ditto Quentin, ditto Anderson, ditto Richar, ditto Masset if he's the long man. I'd like to see as many of these guys grow together as possible, with the only exceptions being Wassermann (MacDougal needs a chance to find his dominance again because if he does he's worth a good prospect) and Ramirez, who needs to start every day in Charlotte. Personally, I'd rather send him to Birmingham but it looks like Charlotte is the place.

 

I'd much rather see Uribe and Crede dumped off. If the Sox can find a team willing to take on the whole contract in exchange for a non-prospect I think that is the best case of the most likely scenarios. If not and the Sox are forced to take on another bad contract, hopefully the Sox could pick up a serviceable utility guy. If not, just look for a lesser bad contract and release that guy. Add Rouse to the team as a backup SS at the league minimum. Who f***in cares anyway.

 

My roster would look like this:

 

Starters vs. lefties/starters vs. righties/back-ups:

C Pierzynski/Pierzynski/Hall

1B Konerko/Konerko/Swisher

2B Richar/Richar/Ozuna (1), Rouse (2)

3B Fields/Fields/Ozuna (1), Rouse (2)

SS Cabrera/Cabrera/Rouse (1), Ozuna (2)

DH Quentin/Thome/open

LF Swisher/Swisher/Quentin (1), Anderson (2), Owens (3)

CF Anderson/Owens/Anderson

RF Dye/Dye/Quentin (1), Anderson (2), Owens (3)

 

That's 13 position players and a 12 man pitching staff. Start Ehren in Charlotte to give MacDougal one last shot at not sucking, then if he doesn't suck, deal him for something of value and call up Ehren. Start Masset as the long man again, hope he doesn't suck, and then when he does go to Egbert or Broadway if one of them isn't already in the rotation covering Gavin's ass.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[fathom]

Swisher's age, the length and value of the contract, and that much needed OBP are all reasons to like that trade. People who slam that trade do not mention Swish's age, b/c it's a component in the terms of their own argument. And on top of that, he's shown power and OBP in a pitcher's park already.

 

My belief that trade will soon be seen as Swisher for DLS, if that, but thats me.

 

Oakland's notorious for PED users, so maybe Sweeney can finally bulk up and hit the ball out of the infield.

[Princess Dye]

If you think attempting winning in 2008 is pointless, then you probably believe we'll be bad fast, and Fields will be UP HERE ANYWAY by midseason.

 

 

Furthermore, does Fields playing in AAA another year really "stunt" his progress? My belief is talent comes to the forefront or it doesnt. He's 25.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Princess Dye

[Reddy]

Not to be a downer, but I think it is kind of foolish to expect to contend this year. Even if Floyd and Danks turn out to be these "top of the rotation starters" the Sox have touted them as, which is a huuuuuuuuuuuge if at that, there will still be growing pains. And even if Jerry Owens turns into a capable lead-off man (OBP .350+, high SB%) which is another monolithic if, he is going to have to make his share of adjustments as well. Ditto Fields, ditto Quentin, ditto Anderson, ditto Richar, ditto Masset if he's the long man.

 

Personally, I'd much rather see Uribe and Crede dumped off. If the Sox can find a team willing to take on the whole contract in exchange for a non-prospect I think that is the best case of the most likely scenarios. If not and the Sox are forced to take on another bad contract, hopefully the Sox could pick up a serviceable utility guy. If not, just look for a lesser bad contract and release that guy. Add Rouse to the team as a backup SS at the league minimum. Who f***in cares anyway.

 

My roster would look like this:

 

Starters vs. lefties/starters vs. righties/back-ups:

C Pierzynski/Pierzynski/Hall

1B Konerko/Konerko/Swisher

2B Richar/Richar/Ozuna (1), Rouse (2)

3B Fields/Fields/Ozuna (1), Rouse (2)

SS Cabrera/Cabrera/Rouse (1), Ozuna (2)

DH Quentin/Thome/open

LF Swisher/Swisher/Quentin (1), Anderson (2), Owens (3)

CF Anderson/Owens/Anderson

RF Dye/Dye/Quentin (1), Anderson (2), Owens (3)

 

That's 13 position players and a 12 man pitching staff. Start Ehren in Charlotte to give MacDougal one last shot at not sucking, then if he doesn't suck, deal him for something of value and call up Ehren. Start Masset as the long man again, hope he doesn't suck, and then when he does go to Egbert or Broadway if one of them isn't already in the rotation covering Gavin's ass.

 

not so sure about that part... and richar over Alexei?

[Reddy]

If you think attempting winning in 2008 is pointless, then you probably believe we'll be bad fast, and Fields will be UP HERE ANYWAY by midseason.

Furthermore, does Fields playing in AAA another year really "stunt" his progress? My belief is talent comes to the forefront or it doesnt. He's 25.

 

and it has. he's shown he can be a starter in the ML. you're right, he's a 25 year old who can play in the Majors... how does sending him back down NOT stunt his growth?

[fathom]

If you think attempting winning in 2008 is pointless, then you probably believe we'll be bad fast, and Fields will be UP HERE ANYWAY by midseason.

Furthermore, does Fields playing in AAA another year really "stunt" his progress? My belief is talent comes to the forefront or it doesnt. He's 25.

 

Yes, I don't think going to AAA will do him any good. He's not going to see the 95 mph fastballs there that he needs to get more comfortable with.

[whitesoxfan101]

If you think attempting winning in 2008 is pointless, then you probably believe we'll be bad fast, and Fields will be UP HERE ANYWAY by midseason.

Furthermore, does Fields playing in AAA another year really "stunt" his progress? My belief is talent comes to the forefront or it doesnt. He's 25.

 

Anybody that saw the fall of Brandon McCarthy after he was moved to the bullpen when he thought he had a starting job locked up knows that this sort of thing can affect a player, even if they will eventually likely earn their spot long term. I know that sounds wrong, but professional athletes are shallow, egotistical, and fragile if you take away something they think they have. But that's beyond the point of, what's the point of sending Fields down yet again when he should be getting major league at bats anyways? Keeping Crede instead of playing Fields at 3B isn't going to get us any closer to a championship, and it would be more beneficial for Fields to spend even those couple extra months with the White Sox than the Knights.

Edited March 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Princess Dye]

Yes, I don't think going to AAA will do him any good. He's not going to see the 95 mph fastballs there that he needs to get more comfortable with.

 

 

But think about the word "stunt." Does he get worse by being down there? If not, then he plays next year. As pro-fields people are saying, we werent going to win this year anyway, right?

 

 

 

Another way of looking at it -- doesnt Crede playing well also have a potential benefit to the farm system?

 

aka trading him at midseason after a strong extended showing? There's more longterm value in getting more arms in the system than there is getting playing time for the 25 yr old Fields.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Princess Dye

[SoxWS05]

I am more concerned with having a good MLB team in the long run, but we don't have that right now. Actually, I shouldn't say that because we might be pretty good, but we aren't good enough to contend with the Tigers and Indians right now, and that is what matters.

 

But anyways, the only way we are going to get our MLB team to be good again is to rebuild, and that would in the short run entail having good minor league teams which build up the young talent before it is ready for the majors. We can't get good again IMO unless we rebuild, and you can't rebuild unless you at some point have a good AAA team and farm system.

 

Now, the issue this thread started with doesn't have a ton to do with the system itself. But it's just a bad message being sent yet again by Kenny that our young players and future don't matter and we are still going for it every year, even though our roster isn't good enough to win a title or even make the playoffs.

 

They have these players called "free agents" every year. We have young talent to build around. A move here, a move there..holes filled.

[Princess Dye]

They have these players called "free agents" every year. We have young talent to build around. A move here, a move there..holes filled.

 

Yeah, the Swisher trade forces JR to spend more on other positions. It also enables that by getting a relatively cheap, proven OF in Swisher.

[whitesoxfan101]

They have these players called "free agents" every year. We're not the Royals, we have money.

 

Ask the Yankees how rebuilding via free agency works. Their attemps to do that (and they have three times as much money as us), have caused what is for their standards a long drought of world championships. What have they done to fix it? They've built a system of excellent up and coming prospects and players like Cano, Melky Cabrera, Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain, etc and are trying to win that way. People forget even the Yankees dynasty of the late 1990's was originally built on what was an excellent farm system with Pettitte, Jeter, Posada, Bernie Williams, Mariano Rivera, etc.

Edited March 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Reddy]

They have these players called "free agents" every year. We have young talent to build around. A move here, a move there..holes filled.

 

goodness! why didn't i think of that? it's all so easy!

[fathom]

They have these players called "free agents" every year. We have young talent to build around. A move here, a move there..holes filled.

 

We have a lot of money tied up in salaries for the next few seasons. And we really don't have a lot of young talent to build around in comparison with other teams. Pretty soon, we're going to have to spend a lot more money than we have been on positions like SS, Bobby Jenks, etc. Our core players are not considered to be young, cheap players. We're looking more and more like the AL version of the Giants.

Edited March 19, 2008 by fathom

[Princess Dye]

goodness! why didn't i think of that? it's all so easy!

 

How much easier is it to hoard prospects and expect them to develop? lets ask KC

 

 

 

Point is you need a balance - free agents and homegrown. We're light on the homegrown right now, no question.

 

But .........If we get a surprise performance from a few starting pitchers, we're in a nice position this year. If not, we can always re-up our farm system at the trade deadline. And still have enough able-bodied veterans for next yr.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Princess Dye

[SoxWS05]

and a move here, and another move there....What are these "moves" you speak of that will make the Sox contenders?

 

 

The Sox are contenders now! I'm talking about the future that everyone is worried about. C'mon people, who cares about 2009,2010...worry about that when the time comes. I'm sure there are a few dozen players going into free agency next season.

Detroit has holes, Cleveland has holes, Jesus, let the season play out before you right them off.

[southsideirish71]

If you think attempting winning in 2008 is pointless, then you probably believe we'll be bad fast, and Fields will be UP HERE ANYWAY by midseason.

Furthermore, does Fields playing in AAA another year really "stunt" his progress? My belief is talent comes to the forefront or it doesnt. He's 25.

 

The talent in the International League is weak to say the least.

 

From last year alone.

 

Richar hit near .350 with a .556 slugging percentage. He had a .400 OBP. .956 OPS

how exactly did he transition when he came up. Did he hit near it, or was there an adjustment period. I mean he is talented, but even with talent there is a difference between the AAA and the show.

 

Bourgeois hit .311 with a .813 OPS

 

Bukvich has a 2.89 ERA

Printz had a .56 ERA.

 

Floyd had a 3.12 ERA.

 

 

And lets look at some history down there.

 

Felix Diaz looked like Cy Freakin Young in AAA. He was unhittable. He comes up here, and now is pitching in Japan.

 

Jeremey Reed looked like Wade Boggs. How is he doing.

 

Brian Anderson hit over 300 before he came up the first time.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

But think about the word "stunt." Does he get worse by being down there? If not, then he plays next year. As pro-fields people are saying, we werent going to win this year anyway, right?

Another way of looking at it -- doesnt Crede playing well also have a potential benefit to the farm system?

 

aka trading him at midseason after a strong extended showing? There's more longterm value in getting more arms in the system than there is getting playing time for the 25 yr old Fields.

I don't think so. Even if Crede has a good year up until around July and then we trade him, given his whole situation and the fact that there aren't going to be many contenders if any at all looking for a 3B with a mediocre at best bat, I doubt we'd get much more than a project and/or a longshot prospect or two. I think the best we could hope for would be something like Gavin Floyd/Kyle Davies type of pitcher + what we got for Aardsma. Even that might be generous.

 

I think we have enough longshots and projects as it is already. It's time to take our ONE homegrown stud prospect and put him in the field everyday.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The talent in the International League is weak to say the least.

 

From last year alone.

 

Richar hit near .350 with a .556 slugging percentage. He had a .400 OBP. .956 OPS

how exactly did he transition when he came up. Did he hit near it, or was there an adjustment period. I mean he is talented, but even with talent there is a difference between the AAA and the show.

 

Bourgeois hit .311 with a .813 OPS

 

Bukvich has a 2.89 ERA

Printz had a .56 ERA.

 

Floyd had a 3.12 ERA.

And lets look at some history down there.

 

Felix Diaz looked like Cy Freakin Young in AAA. He was unhittable. He comes up here, and now is pitching in Japan.

 

Jeremey Reed looked like Wade Boggs. How is he doing.

 

Brian Anderson hit over 300 before he came up the first time.

Don't forget Willie Harris hitting over .400.

[Reddy]

The Sox are contenders now! I'm talking about the future that everyone is worried about. C'mon people, who cares about 2009,2010...worry about that when the time comes. I'm sure there are a few dozen players going into free agency next season.

Detroit has holes, Cleveland has holes, Jesus, let the season play out before you right them off.

 

i am SO glad you're not our GM....

[SoxWS05]

Ask the Yankees how rebuilding via free agency works. Their attemps to do that (and they have three times as much money as us), have caused what is for their standards a long drought of world championships. What have they done to fix it? They've built a system of excellent up and coming prospects and players like Cano, Melky Cabrera, Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain, etc and are trying to win that way. People forget even the Yankees dynasty of the late 1990's was originally built on what was an excellent farm system with Pettitte, Jeter, Posada, Bernie Williams, Mariano Rivera, etc.

 

 

And how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs in the last 15 years? Maybe once.

[southsideirish71]

aka trading him at midseason after a strong extended showing? There's more longterm value in getting more arms in the system than there is getting playing time for the 25 yr old Fields.

 

What kind of compensation are you going to extract from a team for a pure rental that gains you no compensation of picks. I would say something on the likes of a 24 year old Class A pitcher, or a 25 year old AA pitcher who was a converted OF.

 

 

 

[southsideirish71]

And how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs in the last 15 years? Maybe once.

 

WOW.

 

Uh you might want to check out the payroll differences between the Yankees and the rest of the earth.

[Reddy]

And how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs in the last 15 years? Maybe once.

 

and we dont HAVE that type of money!

 

jeez what don't you get about this? we dont have the money to be the yankees, we can't just throw money at FA's and call that rebuilding. You NEED prospects for the future. You NEED a system. Sure most won't pan out. but you'd rather wait and rely on other teams cultivating these players then paying top dollar for them? i think i'd rather cultivate them myself and have them cheap.

 

if Jenks were a FA how much do you think he'd make?

[Princess Dye]

What kind of compensation are you going to extract from a team for a pure rental that gains you no compensation of picks. I would say something on the likes of a 24 year old Class A pitcher, or a 25 year old AA pitcher who was a converted OF.

 

Considering the position Crede plays, if he has a dynamite year for a bad Sox team this year, we could get some better prospects than what you speak. He's more likely to fill a need for several teams, so we can have some bidders.

 

Again, that's only if he's at his 2006 numbers. Even if said scenario doesnt happen though, you can bring Fields up at that point anyway and get him a half year of MLB experience. More than half if we're really bad.

 

All adds up to play Crede now.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Princess Dye