Crede likely to start on opening day

[Reddy]

What's scary was I was just about to make a post about him resembling Williams and his stance on the club...

 

hahaha....

 

....

 

 

i guess that's not really funny...

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

not so sure about that part... and richar over Alexei?

Thome doesn't exactly kill lefties as it is, plus some extra rest won't hurt him. Quentin needs the AB's more anyway, both now and for the future.

 

Alexei can't play 2B like Richar can, and he needs regular AB's against American pitching still. I think he'd be best off in Birmingham against some better prospects in a larger ballpark instead of trying to get home run happy off AAAA players in Charlotte, and while he's there he should be playing SS everyday until Cabera signs a contract extension. If that doesn't happen, keep him there. If Cabrera does sign longterm around midseason, the Sox will be in better position to evaluate Anderson, Owens, and Richar and will then be able to move Ramirez to CF or 2B depending on which position looks open for '09.

[Reddy]

Considering the position Crede plays, if he has a dynamite year for a bad Sox team this year, we could get some better prospects than what you speak. He's more likely to fill a need for several teams, so we can have some bidders.

 

Again, that's only if he's at his 2006 numbers. Even if said scenario doesnt happen though, you can bring Fields up at that point anyway and get him a half year of MLB experience.

All adds up to play Crede now.

 

thats what he got last year. how bout we give him a full one?

[whitesoxfan101]

And how many times have the yankees missed the playoffs in the last 15 years? Maybe once.

 

Actually it's the last 13 seasons, their streak of excellence really started with their heartbreaking loss to Seattle in the 1995 ALDS and then the title the next year. But the point is, most of those 13 teams (more likely all) were built with cores that were originally members of the *gasp* Yankee farm system!! They won those four championships with cores of excellent homegrown players.

 

Now, they did sprinkle in important free agents here and there like Paul O'Neill and Scott Brosius, but the vast majority of the important players on those teams were home grown talent. And as the core of the team began to and continued to age, the Yankees didn't try and replenish the roster with home grown players, they bought free agents.

 

Needless to say, they continued to make the playoffs, but didn't win championships because that is not how it works. Only now are the Yankees re-figuring out that winning is about building from within, and it's scary to see because they have quite a few young players that are either already good or will be very soon. As a result, guys like Jeter and Rivera might have one last run of glory before retiring into the sunset.

Edited March 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[harfman77]

Are you more concerned with having a good MLB team or AAA team? Don't over value prospects because thats all they are...prospects. I think there's list a mile long of "can't miss" prospects who never made it. If Kenny wanted a good farm system he could have it tomorrow, but he wants the White Sox to compete now our farm system.

 

I never said Fields sucks, I just said Crede gives us a better chance to win in 2008. Thats all that matters.

 

That is such an overused false statement, there are not a lot of pieces on this roster that will back quality prospects. He might be able to jump into the top 20 instead of dead last. Prospects have as much value now as they ever have, look at recent trades.

 

I am more concerned about having a good MLB team, and you do that by developing depth across the organization. When a player goes down, you can reach down to the farm and grab someone to plug in, or someone to trade off to plug the hole.

 

I think the lineup to start the season will be

 

C AJ

1B Konerko

2B Uribe

SS Ocab

3B Crede

RF Dye

CF Owens/Anderson platoon

LF Swisher

DH Thome

 

BE Anderson

BE Ozuna

BE Quentin

BE Hall

 

SP Buerhle

SP Javi

SP JC

SP Danks

SP Floyd

 

RP Jenks

RP Thornton

RP Logan

RP Dotel

RP Linebrink

RP Masset

RP McDougal

 

I think that lineup finishes fourth in the division.

[fathom]

Detroit has holes, Cleveland has holes, Jesus, let the season play out before you right them off.

 

Thanks Hawk

[103 mph screwball]

Good. Defense is not to be underestimated and a healthy Joe may hit better than he ever has. Fields isn't going anywhere. There is no good offers for Joe. It would be a bad idea to just dump such a quality player.

[Reddy]

I think that lineup finishes fourth in the division.

 

i agree...

[harfman77]

Actually it's the last 13 seasons, their streak of excellence really started with their heartbreaking loss to Seattle in the 1995 ALDS and then the title the next year. But the point is, most of those 13 teams (more likely all) were built with cores that were originally members of the *gasp* Yankee farm system!! They won those four championships with cores of excellent homegrown players.

 

Now, they did sprinkle in important free agents here and there like Paul O'Neill and Scott Brosius, but the vast majority of the important players on those teams were home grown talent. And as the core of the team began to and continued to age, the Yankees didn't try and replenish the roster with home grown players, they bought free agents.

 

Needless to say, they continued to make the playoffs, but didn't win championships because that is not how it works. Only now are the Yankees re-figuring out that winning is about building from within, and it's scary to see because they have quite a few young players that are either already good or will be very soon. As a result, guys like Jeter and Rivera might have one last run of glory before retiring into the sunset.

 

But they did use the kids in their farm system to trade for those players. Javier Vazquez, A-Rod and Abreu are a few of the guys that were acquired using the talent in the system.

[southsideirish71]

and we dont HAVE that type of money!

 

jeez what don't you get about this? we dont have the money to be the yankees, we can't just throw money at FA's and call that rebuilding. You NEED prospects for the future. You NEED a system. Sure most won't pan out. but you'd rather wait and rely on other teams cultivating these players then paying top dollar for them? i think i'd rather cultivate them myself and have them cheap.

 

if Jenks were a FA how much do you think he'd make?

 

 

How would our 3rd base situation look if we had the prospects this offseason to get Cabrera at 3rd. Crede's crew would be talking about Crede's silver slugger and how we should trade Cabrera, but lets get back to reality. But alas, its all about winning now. Winning today. Screw prospects, they never get us anything. Well unless we had prospects and then sometimes you can get a pretty damn good player.

 

Thank god we won a few more games last year. That number 3 pick overall is so overrated, you can get the same dude at 8. I mean Alvarez = Jordan Danks anyway. LOL

 

 

[SoxWS05]

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:50 AM) *

I think that lineup finishes First in the division.

 

 

There I fixed it for you.

[Princess Dye]

thats what he got last year. how bout we give him a full one?

 

Because the potential of being a better club with Crede this year is there. The seemingly remote chance of having a 2005 type scenario where you get better than expected pitching and an expected wallop of power is there.

 

But beyond all that, because you can trade Crede later and NOT stunt Fields' progress. Fields simply doesnt play for a few months, and you potentially get a better player in a Crede trade.

 

 

 

The other option is simply giving away Joe now.

[harfman77]

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:50 AM) *

I think that lineup finishes First in the division.

There I fixed it for you.

 

That is broken

Edited March 19, 2008 by IowaSoxFan

[southsideirish71]

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Mar 19, 2008 -> 10:50 AM) *

I think that lineup finishes First in the division.

There I fixed it for you.

 

Take a look at the tigers offense, and please tell me if you could replace the entire whitesox offense with the entire tigers offense you wouldnt do it right now.

 

I am having flashbacks to asking this question with Johan verus Mark Buerhle when a poster that you remind me of said he would rather have Buerhle.

 

 

 

[whitesoxfan101]

But they did use the kids in their farm system to trade for those players. Javier Vazquez, A-Rod and Abreu are a few of the guys that were acquired using the talent in the system.

 

But even to that point, they had the farm system deep and good enough to attain players of that level. We don't. All we can do is trade our only two truly elite prospects (as well as a 3rd guy who used to be looked at that way) to get one guy. Now that one guy is good in Nick Swisher, but even to your point, the Yankees had the system to trade for guys much better than we can.

Edited March 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Reddy]

How would our 3rd base situation look if we had the prospects this offseason to get Cabrera at 3rd. Crede's crew would be talking about Crede's silver slugger and how we should trade Cabrera, but lets get back to reality. But alas, its all about winning now. Winning today. Screw prospects, they never get us anything. Well unless we had prospects and then sometimes you can get a pretty damn good player.

 

Thank god we won a few more games last year. That number 3 pick overall is so overrated, you can get the same dude at 8. I mean Alvarez = Jordan Danks anyway. LOL

 

amen to that.

[Flash Tizzle]

But anyways, the only way we are going to get our MLB team to be good again is to rebuild, and that would in the short run entail having good minor league teams which build up the young talent before it is ready for the majors. We can't get good again IMO unless we rebuild, and you can't rebuild unless you at some point have a good AAA team and farm system.

I have to believe it'll take a season worse than last years for Williams to rebuild. Even winning 73 games is some improvement!

 

Our most important route for improvment, because I doubt we're worse than last year, is the draft. We can't miss. It has to be a stud. Considering the amount of time that has passed since we've been in the Top 10 (and the players who were selected), it should go a ways towards building a contender. I'm not discounting later rounds, either. The first round just holds the most certainty.

 

Really, what other avenues for improvement do we have? Trade the prospects we don't have, or break mold and outspend other teams for top-tier talent?

 

My expectations for the upcoming draft will be so ridiculous you'll crap yourself. If any team selecting after our first pick and before our second drafts a player, even one previously injured or unknown, that ultimately becomes a better player than our draftee I'll blame the scouting staff. This, mind you, will cover 80 picks. Whoever is involved with the draft should be monitoring players with their jobs on the line. I'm expecting someone in the Tim Lincecum, Scott Kazmir, Clay Buchholz, Cole Hamels, Dan Haren mode for a pitcher; or Chase Utley, David Wright, Joey Votto, Adam Jones mold for a positional player.

[SoxWS05]

Take a look at the tigers offense, and please tell me if you could replace the entire whitesox offense with the entire tigers offense you wouldnt do it right now.

 

I am having flashbacks to asking this question with Johan verus Mark Buerhle when a poster that you remind me of said he would rather have Buerhle.

 

The tigers offense is good, no doubt better then the Sox. I also see a lot of injury prone old players on the Tigers. I also see a very weak bullpen and a overrated pitching staff on the tigers. Sure the Tigers are really good, but the White Sox are good too.

Same goes for Cleveland...overrated offense, can Carmona repeat his '07 performance. Who's the closer?? Slow Joe? Team looks an injury away from very mediocre.

[kapkomet]

I'm glad to see the rays of sunshine that is getting blown out of people's asses in this thread. Let's just move the damn team to Tampa and get it over with, since they suck so bad in March. Oh wait a minute, that was almost tried once before...

 

Granted, it's not totally rosey, but it's certainly not the "let's blow everything up", yet. We can at least wait until May 1 for that, can't we?

[southsideirish71]

I have to believe it'll take a season worse than last years for Williams to rebuild. Even winning 73 games is some improvement!

 

Our most important route for improvment, because I doubt we're worse than last year, is the draft. We can't miss. It has to be a stud. Considering the amount of time that has passed since we've been in the Top 10 (and the players who were selected), it should go a ways towards building a contender. I'm not discounting later rounds, either. The first round just holds the most certainty.

 

Really, what other avenues for improvement do we have? Trade the prospects we don't have, or break mold and outspend other teams for top-tier talent?

 

My expectations for the upcoming draft will be so ridiculous you'll crap yourself. If any team selecting after our first pick and before our second drafts a player, even one previously injured or unknown, that ultimately becomes a better player than our draftee I'll blame the scouting staff. This, mind you, will cover 80 picks. Whoever is involved with the draft should be monitoring players with their jobs on the line. I'm expecting someone in the Tim Lincecum, Scott Kazmir, Clay Buchholz, Cole Hamels, Dan Haren mode for a pitcher; or Chase Utley, David Wright, Joey Votto, Adam Jones mold for a positional player.

 

I think you will be disappointed.

 

Lets look at it like this. How much of the top tier draft talent signs Boras as an agent. We will keep within the slot allocations and we will pass over any Boras clients. Hell we had Porcello fall into our laps, and as much as anyone drools over Poreda, Porcello as a high school product has a near equal fastball with better secondary pitches. Porcello is already ranked in the top 20 and is getting compared to Verlander and Beckett. Could he fail, sure. But he sure does have the pedigree. He made the mistake of picking Boras so that equals pass and let him go to the Tigers.

 

So all Boras clients are eliminated.

 

Anyone wanting more than slot = elminated.

 

We will get a talented guy, just like we got Poreda last year. But it will be less of a polished product.

[whitesoxfan101]

Granted, it's not totally rosey, but it's certainly not the "let's blow everything up", yet. We can at least wait until May 1 for that, can't we?

 

We're better, but are we 20-25 games better than last year? Because if we aren't THAT much better, we aren't making the playoffs. And if we aren't making the playoffs, our old core is another year older and another year closer to free agency, and even our young guys like Jenks are a year closer to costing us a truckload of money.

 

I don't see any way in hell we finish better than 3rd in this division, so our short term is not good, and our farm system is the worst in baseball with our major league core already being old, so our long term is not good. Until somebody can legitimately refute even one of those points, i'm going to be pretty down on the Sox. I still love them and will watch every game, but I am down on them.

Edited March 19, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[SoxWS05]

I'm glad to see the rays of sunshine that is getting blown out of people's asses in this thread. Let's just move the damn team to Tampa and get it over with, since they suck so bad in March. Oh wait a minute, that was almost tried once before...

 

Granted, it's not totally rosey, but it's certainly not the "let's blow everything up", yet. We can at least wait until May 1 for that, can't we?

 

Actually in august '07 everyone decided the '08 Sox would suck.

[southsideirish71]

I'm glad to see the rays of sunshine that is getting blown out of people's asses in this thread. Let's just move the damn team to Tampa and get it over with, since they suck so bad in March. Oh wait a minute, that was almost tried once before...

 

Granted, it's not totally rosey, but it's certainly not the "let's blow everything up", yet. We can at least wait until May 1 for that, can't we?

 

It has nothing to do with if the team is bad or not. I think that Fields and Anderson/Quentin gives them a better chance at competing over Crede and Owens.

 

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Well this thread is just ugly as hell.

 

[SoxWS05]

We're better, but are we 20-25 games better than last year? Because if we aren't THAT much better, we aren't making the playoffs. And if we aren't making the playoffs, our old core is another year older and another year closer to free agency, and even our young guys like Jenks are a year closer to costing us a truckload of money.

 

I don't see any way in hell we finish better than 3rd in this division, so our short term is not good, and our farm system is the worst in baseball with our major league core already being old, so our long term is not good. Until somebody can legitimately refute even one of those points, i'm going to be pretty down on the Sox. I still love them and will watch every game, but I am down on them.

 

Thank god baseball is played on the field and not on paper.