Would JR ever say this???

[jasonxctf]

"Milwaukee is a permanent fixture in the NBA," Kohl said Wednesday after he announced that Larry Harris left as general manager. "I'm not in this business to make any annual profits. The value of the asset fortunately has appreciated over the years. On an annual basis, it's a money-losing proposition. I'm in it because I love the sport, I love the competition and I love winning."

[Balta1701]

I doubt JR would say that. And I thank God that JR runs franchises better than the Milwaukee Bucks.

[NorthSideSox72]

"Milwaukee is a permanent fixture in the NBA," Kohl said Wednesday after he announced that Larry Harris left as general manager. "I'm not in this business to make any annual profits. The value of the asset fortunately has appreciated over the years. On an annual basis, it's a money-losing proposition. I'm in it because I love the sport, I love the competition and I love winning."

He HAS said nearly the same thing. The Sox don't make much money - rarely a profit, and if so, a small one. Increased revenues are plowed back into the team. That's how he has always managed the franchise.

 

[Hatchetman]

it's all about the long term capital gains.

[Harry Chappas]

"Milwaukee is a permanent fixture in the NBA," Kohl said Wednesday after he announced that Larry Harris left as general manager. "I'm not in this business to make any annual profits. The value of the asset fortunately has appreciated over the years. On an annual basis, it's a money-losing proposition. I'm in it because I love the sport, I love the competition and I love winning."

 

 

I believe he has said it often yet the media and those that love to spend other people's money will blast away without understanding the situation. If the Sox raised ticket prices like the cubs have (33% this past offseason correct), what would hte ramifications be on the fan base. Having a bad season killed a sizable amount of season ticket holders already.

 

Wanna b**** about owners taking advantage of a situation, look at the Twins, Royals, Marlins.

[southsider2k5]

He HAS said nearly the same thing. The Sox don't make much money - rarely a profit, and if so, a small one. Increased revenues are plowed back into the team. That's how he has always managed the franchise.

 

He has said it ad naseum if you listen to him. Not to mention that his actions have spoken louder than his words for a long time. There is a long line you can run back where any profits for a season, end up being almost the exact (if not more) increase in salaries for the White Sox team the next season. I am sick to death of hearing the mantra about JR being cheap. It doesn't matter how many times it gets repeated, IT IS NOT TRUE.

[CanOfCorn]

He has said it ad naseum if you listen to him. Not to mention that his actions have spoken louder than his words for a long time. There is a long line you can run back where any profits for a season, end up being almost the exact (if not more) increase in salaries for the White Sox team the next season. I am sick to death of hearing the mantra about JR being cheap. It doesn't matter how many times it gets repeated, IT IS NOT TRUE.

 

There's a little truth to it...good businesspeople don't spend their money willy-nilly without it biting them in the butt in the long run. Even the owners that seem to spend money like that...Big Stein, Mark Cuban come to mind...don't necessarily do that in all their businesses and/or still find a way to make up for losses. But overall, you are right, he's not cheap...he's frugal.

[jasonxctf]

so would JR ever open the books for everyone to look at and examine?

[JohnCangelosi]

No offense to any of you guys in this forum as I think you are great and your knowledge of baseball is really fun to read. But who here runs a corporation with INVESTORS involved???

 

I happen to be an investor in many businesses and also run a few corporations myself. One thing you guys are missing is that when you have INVESTORS in your business, you need to report to them consistently on what you are doing in order to make a profit. JR doesn't outright own this team, even though he has a majority stake.

 

JR is probably the most misunderstood owner in sports and I have no problem with him running a business to make money, especially when he has to report to investors and let them know he is actually managing their investment with care! You guys make it seem like its evil that a company makes profits. Kinda like the BS Hillary or Obama are spouting out these days.

 

JR is not interested in making tons of money with the White Sox and he wants to win. He has brought 7 championships to Chicago and people still cannot criticize him quick enough.

 

Just my .02

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

so would JR ever open the books for everyone to look at and examine?

Forbes publishes a list every year of the value, and profit for the previous year, of each MLB team. Those numbers are not full gospel or anything, but they are probably pretty close. Looking over the years, you will see that the Sox usually eke out a very small margin, if any at all, depending on the year. You will also see that as revenues go up, so does the payroll (which would probably have to be checked elsewhere, but can easily be done). The basic numbers are out there for you to peruse.

 

[kwolf68]

No offense to any of you guys in this forum as I think you are great and your knowledge of baseball is really fun to read. But who here runs a corporation with INVESTORS involved???

 

I happen to be an investor in many businesses and also run a few corporations myself. One thing you guys are missing is that when you have INVESTORS in your business, you need to report to them consistently on what you are doing in order to make a profit. JR doesn't outright own this team, even though he has a majority stake.

 

JR is probably the most misunderstood owner in sports and I have no problem with him running a business to make money, especially when he has to report to investors and let them know he is actually managing their investment with care! You guys make it seem like its evil that a company makes profits. Kinda like the BS Hillary or Obama are spouting out these days.

 

JR is not interested in making tons of money with the White Sox and he wants to win. He has brought 7 championships to Chicago and people still cannot criticize him quick enough.

 

Just my .02

 

 

What poster is this in response to? It seemed every post in response to the thread in response to the original was right along your lines of thinking for the most part. Most said they didn't mind JR being smart with his money, didn't mind him making a profit, and credited him for not taking advantage of the fans like those owners in KC and Minnesota did.

 

If it is your wish to engage in a debate/discussion about the morality of the corporate profit motive that is one thing, but this thread didn't seem to be calling out for such a discussion. And I have to laugh my ass off about the Obama/Hillary comment. Are you stuck in 1967? The mainstream Democratic Party has absolutely no problems with corporate profits. The life-blood of the Democratic Party is the same that fuels the Republican Party, and that IS corporate power...Anyone who believes the Democrats are about some sort of quasi-revolutionary agenda to overthrow corporate power and hand the means of ownership over to the workers is absolutely delusional and clueless and has listened to way too many Mike Savage monlogues.

Edited March 20, 2008 by kwolf68

[southsider2k5]

No offense to any of you guys in this forum as I think you are great and your knowledge of baseball is really fun to read. But who here runs a corporation with INVESTORS involved???

 

I happen to be an investor in many businesses and also run a few corporations myself. One thing you guys are missing is that when you have INVESTORS in your business, you need to report to them consistently on what you are doing in order to make a profit. JR doesn't outright own this team, even though he has a majority stake.

 

JR is probably the most misunderstood owner in sports and I have no problem with him running a business to make money, especially when he has to report to investors and let them know he is actually managing their investment with care! You guys make it seem like its evil that a company makes profits. Kinda like the BS Hillary or Obama are spouting out these days.

 

JR is not interested in making tons of money with the White Sox and he wants to win. He has brought 7 championships to Chicago and people still cannot criticize him quick enough.

 

Just my .02

 

JR doesn't actually even own the biggest stake in this team...

 

[southsideirish71]

so would JR ever open the books for everyone to look at and examine?

 

Who exactly are you to ask them to open their books up. This is not a publicly traded firm, that has shareholders. This is a private entity that is run by a group of investors. The money and everything from the team is between them and the IRS. How the f*** is this still being being brought up, we have a 100+ million dollar payroll. Its not like we are the marlins, we have a s***load of money invested into this team. THe owner who has brought 7 championships to this town mind you gets all these cracks on how cheap he is. Stop parroting a marriotti article and apply some logic. Teams that dont draw 3 million fans, and still have a 100 million dollar payroll are not cheap.

[YASNY]

Who exactly are you to ask them to open their books up. This is not a publicly traded firm, that has shareholders. This is a private entity that is run by a group of investors. The money and everything from the team is between them and the IRS. How the f*** is this still being being brought up, we have a 100+ million dollar payroll. Its not like we are the marlins, we have a s***load of money invested into this team. THe owner who has brought 7 championships to this town mind you gets all these cracks on how cheap he is. Stop parroting a marriotti article and apply some logic. Teams that dont draw 3 million fans, and still have a 100 million dollar payroll are not cheap.

 

[jasonxctf]

southside... is your bracket busted already? What's with the hostility. Where did I say that JR is a poor (partial-owner). Where did I say that JR should open his books. I ask hypothetical questions that have nothing to do with me particular, just a general line of thought.

 

in addition, that was not a Mariotti article at all.

 

Talk about jumping off the deep end, jesus.

Edited March 20, 2008 by jasonxctf

[NorthSideSox72]

southside... is your bracket busted already? What's with the hostility. Where did I say that JR is a poor (partial-owner). Where did I say that JR should open his books. I ask hypothetical questions that have nothing to do with me particular, just a general line of thought.

 

so would JR ever open the books for everyone to look at and examine?

 

[Dick Allen]

Should and would are very different. He wouldn't open his books. And he shouldn't open his books. What the White Sox make or don't make is really nobody's business but the shareholders.

[jasonxctf]

Should and would are very different. He wouldn't open his books. And he shouldn't open his books. What the White Sox make or don't make is really nobody's business but the shareholders.

 

thank you. someone is actually reading the posts in this thread.

 

do you think that it would help his (or the Sox) image, if they did and it showed JR's statements to be accurate?

 

actually, the White Sox have borrowed money in the past from Fleet Business Credit and Banc One. (anyone work there who wants to glance over those financials and tell us what they say)

[knightni]

Housewives pay for the Milwaukee Bucks

 

[JohnCangelosi]

What poster is this in response to? It seemed every post in response to the thread in response to the original was right along your lines of thinking for the most part. Most said they didn't mind JR being smart with his money, didn't mind him making a profit, and credited him for not taking advantage of the fans like those owners in KC and Minnesota did.

 

If it is your wish to engage in a debate/discussion about the morality of the corporate profit motive that is one thing, but this thread didn't seem to be calling out for such a discussion. And I have to laugh my ass off about the Obama/Hillary comment. Are you stuck in 1967? The mainstream Democratic Party has absolutely no problems with corporate profits. The life-blood of the Democratic Party is the same that fuels the Republican Party, and that IS corporate power...Anyone who believes the Democrats are about some sort of quasi-revolutionary agenda to overthrow corporate power and hand the means of ownership over to the workers is absolutely delusional and clueless and has listened to way too many Mike Savage monlogues.

 

First, we know this common rap that most Sox fans believe we're too cheap (see: Aaron Rowand/Torii Hunter) and it's all JR's fault. This is as common as the day is long. It's such a ridiculous argument that I believe has some type of antisemitism ties to it.

 

Second, regarding democratic principles-sure, raise taxes on all business owners, large and small. Raise taxes on Capital gains when they are responsible for investing in the very companies that pay the common man's wage and create jobs. Damn rich, they keep creating jobs, they should be taxed more! We gotta put an end to this! Greedy bastards are responsible for 60-80% of new job creation in America! Yeah, that's really PRO business. Give me a break. They are for handouts and trying to "save" jobs locally when in reality the people who are losing jobs need to react to a changing economy and upgrade their skills (see: Michigan Auto Workers). Instead they want protectionist policies that only dis empower the very people they are supposedly trying to "help".

[southsider2k5]

southside... is your bracket busted already? What's with the hostility. Where did I say that JR is a poor (partial-owner). Where did I say that JR should open his books. I ask hypothetical questions that have nothing to do with me particular, just a general line of thought.

 

in addition, that was not a Mariotti article at all.

 

Talk about jumping off the deep end, jesus.

 

Oh please. Give it a rest. I stand by my point, actions speak louder than words, even though even JRs words have said exactly what Kohl said for YEARS.

[lostfan]

You actually hear the same thing about the Bears still, the old "McCaskeys are cheap" line when McCaskey doesn't even run day-to-day operations of the team anymore (Ted Phillips) and hasn't for years, and you hear people complaining about them not going out and splurging on the most expensive free agent every year, apparently not knowing they were within $1M of the salary cap in 2007.

 

I just thank God the Bears don't run their front office like the Washington Redskins.

[lostfan]

<!--quoteo(post=1591119:date=Mar 20, 2008 -> 12:41 PM:name=kwolf68)-->

<!--quotec-->What poster is this in response to? It seemed every post in response to the thread in response to the original was right along your lines of thinking for the most part. Most said they didn't mind JR being smart with his money, didn't mind him making a profit, and credited him for not taking advantage of the fans like those owners in KC and Minnesota did.

 

If it is your wish to engage in a debate/discussion about the morality of the corporate profit motive that is one thing, but this thread didn't seem to be calling out for such a discussion. And I have to laugh my ass off about the Obama/Hillary comment. Are you stuck in 1967? The mainstream Democratic Party has absolutely no problems with corporate profits. The life-blood of the Democratic Party is the same that fuels the Republican Party, and that IS corporate power...Anyone who believes the Democrats are about some sort of quasi-revolutionary agenda to overthrow corporate power and hand the means of ownership over to the workers is absolutely delusional and clueless and has listened to way too many Mike Savage monlogues.

 

First, we know this common rap that most Sox fans believe we're too cheap (see: Aaron Rowand/Torii Hunter) and it's all JR's fault. This is as common as the day is long. It's such a ridiculous argument that I believe has some type of antisemitism ties to it.

 

Second, regarding democratic principles-sure, raise taxes on all business owners, large and small. Raise taxes on Capital gains when they are responsible for investing in the very companies that pay the common man's wage and create jobs. Damn rich, they keep creating jobs, they should be taxed more! We gotta put an end to this! Greedy bastards are responsible for 60-80% of new job creation in America! Yeah, that's really PRO business. Give me a break. They are for handouts and trying to "save" jobs locally when in reality the people who are losing jobs need to react to a changing economy and upgrade their skills (see: Michigan Auto Workers). Instead they want protectionist policies that only dis empower the very people they are supposedly trying to "help".

You don't have to "believe" the antisemitism ties because it's absolutely true, some people don't even try to hide it. It just makes me shake my head. We've had a top 5-ish payroll for a few years now.

 

Not to thread hijack, but if you want to complain about reasons that jobs are leaving the U.S., don't get mad about our high corporate tax rates b/c in the grand scheme of things they're almost trivial, be mad about the very quiet sodomizing we are taking from China in our trade deficit with them. If you owned a company would you pay an American $45K a year or would you pay an Indian or Chinese worker to do the exact same job for about $10K, with no tariffs?

[Balta1701]

You don't have to "believe" the antisemitism ties because it's absolutely true, some people don't even try to hide it. It just makes me shake my head. We've had a top 5-ish payroll for a few years now.

 

Not to thread hijack, but if you want to complain about reasons that jobs are leaving the U.S., don't get mad about our high corporate tax rates b/c in the grand scheme of things they're almost trivial, be mad about the very quiet sodomizing we are taking from China in our trade deficit with them. If you owned a company would you pay an American $45K a year or would you pay an Indian or Chinese worker to do the exact same job for about $10K, with no tariffs?

If the dollar keeps going the way it's going right now...

[Texsox]

I happen to be an investor in many businesses and also run a few corporations myself. One thing you guys are missing is that when you have INVESTORS in your business, you need to report to them consistently on what you are doing in order to make a profit. J

 

ncorgbl is back?!

 

I have, and you are wrong, the goals of the INVESTORS (why are we shouting?) do come into play. If the investors goal is to win championships at any cost, then that is how the team would be run. There is nothing sacred that investors = profit motive. Put another way, if the group got together and said, we're going to invest $X today and $Y dollars every single year to win championships, and in the end, hopefully the value of the franchise will equal your investment, do you want in? Then that is how it should be run. Or at least until the group changes their direction.

 

I'm not saying that is the case here, but people invest in companies for a variety of reasons, and earning a profit is not always one of them, just the most common.

 

Here's an example, I've been investing in micro businesses through Kiva.org. Over the course of time, I expect to lose money, while helping entrepreneurs in Mexico.