Say "Hi!" to ARow, Drop off Crede, Pick up Cain

[CanOfCorn]

Fields OBP was .308 last year. Crede's career is .305. I think the 100 fewer strikeouts Crede would provide would more than make up for that .003 loss of OBP.

 

Adam Dunn says hi.

[Dick Allen]

Ha and Crede's career is an awesome .304 but do go on.

I will go on. I never said Crede was perfect, but you guys go on and on about Fields. The only thing he's shown he can do on the major league level is hit homers. He's not an OBP machine, you give him credit for having more walks than Joe Crede. What's so impressive about that?If Crede sucks like I've read numerous times, Fields must suck as well. I've never said Fields sucks, but my opinion is he's Ron Kittle Jr. offensively.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

Yes, because his OBP was still only .308

And his rookie campaign showed his OBP is ALREADY at Crede's

[CanOfCorn]

Floyd.

 

6 IP 6 H 2 R 2 ER 0 BB 4 SO

 

Not too shabby.

 

Shhh...not too loud...people might stop pissing in his cereal.

[Dick Allen]

Adam Dunn says hi.

Adam Dunn gets on base at a much higher clip than .308.

[RockRaines]

I will go on. I never said Crede was perfect, but you guys go on and on about Fields. The only thing he's shown he can do on the major league level is hit homers. He's not an OBP machine, you give him credit for having more walks than Joe Crede. What's so impressive about that?If Crede sucks like I've read numerous times, Fields must suck as well. I've never said Fields sucks, but my opinion is he's Ron Kittle Jr. offensively.

Crede has had a career of those numbers, Fields hasnt even had an entire season and has replicated them, he had nowhere to go but up, we already know what Crede does.

[SoxAce]

Fields OBP was .308 last year. Crede's career is .305. I think the 100 fewer strikeouts Crede would provide would more than make up for that .003 loss of OBP.

 

I'll take the BB's/get on base potential more than the SO/still an out argument. Fields is a future all-star, and he will be the best home grown talent we've developed in quite a while. I'll make a prediction. He will have a gold glove in his career because his offense is/will be really, really good. It's a shame thats what it takes to get one.

[daa84]

Fields OBP was .308 last year. Crede's career is .305. I think the 100 fewer strikeouts Crede would provide would more than make up for that .003 loss of OBP.

well then lets be fair and point out the fact that credes obp last year was .259....if you really think fields will end up with a .308 career obp than i agree with you...gimme crede, especially considering the defense and lower ks....but ill be willing to bet you that fields ends up with an obp for his career at least .030 higher than crede

[Dick Allen]

Crede has had a career of those numbers, Fields hasnt even had an entire season and has replicated them, he had nowhere to go but up, we already know what Crede does.

Would you have had the same opinion about Crede in 2002? That he had nowhere to go but up?

[Dick Allen]

well then lets be fair and point out the fact that credes obp last year was .259....if you really think fields will end up with a .308 career obp than i agree with you...gimme crede, especially considering the defense and lower ks....but ill be willing to bet you that fields ends up with an obp for his career at least .030 higher than crede

You can't judge Crede on last year's numbers. That would be like judging Frank Thomas on 2001

[RockRaines]

Would you have had the same opinion about Crede in 2002? That he had nowhere to go but up?

Dont you mean 2003 when he actually got more than 50 games and 200 ab's?

[daa84]

You can't judge Crede on last year's numbers. That would be like judging Frank Thomas on 2001

the point is, you wanted to judge fields on last years numbers only. Just as you cant judge crede on last years numbers alone...you cant judge fields on last years either....with crede, you are right, there is a long career that allows us to at least take an educated guess at his year this year....with fields its harder, but at very worst, it looks as if it will rival credes year, if not be better

 

edit on that note im done arguing this...you have your opinion i have mine and theres nothin wrong with that

Edited March 21, 2008 by daa84

[CanOfCorn]

Adam Dunn gets on base at a much higher clip than .308.

 

Josh Fields has played 1/2 a season, too.

[RockRaines]

the point is, you want to judge fields on last years numbers only, just as you cant judge crede on last years numbers alone...you cant judge fields on last years....with crede, you are right, there is a long career that allows us to at least take an educated guess at his year this year....with fields its harder, but at very worst, it looks as if it will rival credes year, if not be better

Right now Fields can produce offensively as good as Joe Crede's career has been. He's younger with a larger upside, its really no comparison. But you will always have the nay-sayers just like in the first page of the thread where everyone was talking s*** about Floyd and then he goes out and puts up a solid outing.

[Dick Allen]

Dont you mean 2003 when he actually got more than 50 games and 200 ab's?

No 2002. 200 ABs. That would have been plenty of MLB at bats for you to form your opinion. It only took 2 appearances for you to hop on the Lance Broadway bandwagon, and you appear to be high on Ramirez with about 40 spring training at bats.

[SoxAce]

Would you have had the same opinion about Crede in 2002? That he had nowhere to go but up?

 

In 533 abs, Crede's highest BB total was 56. (aa)

 

In 477 abs, Fields' highest was 55 (aa) (462 the next season in aaa, 54)

 

Crede also K'd alot with more baseball experience. There's no doubt in my mind who will be the better offensive player/potential is/will be.

[daa84]

Right now Fields can produce offensively as good as Joe Crede's career has been. He's younger with a larger upside, its really no comparison. But you will always have the nay-sayers just like in the first page of the thread where everyone was talking s*** about Floyd and then he goes out and puts up a solid outing.

while i agree with you, i will say that fields has had considerably more success than floyd has at their respective positions ....i remain skeptically hopeful for floyd, but optimistically hopeful for fields...i think thats a good way of putting it

[Dick Allen]

In 533 abs, Crede's highest BB total was 56. (aa)

 

In 477 abs, Fields' highest was 55 (aa) (462 the next season in aaa, 54)

 

Crede also K'd alot with more baseball experience. There's no doubt in my mind who will be the better offensive player/potential is/will be.

The most Crede k'd in a season is 81 times. If Fields plays every day, he can cut his k's down 20% and still double that.

[Dick Allen]

Josh Fields has played 1/2 a season, too.

Don't compare Josh Fields with Adam Dunn. Adam Dunn has a career OBP of .381 which happens to be Nick Swisher's career high, and Swisher will get on base a lot more than Fields.

[CanOfCorn]

Don't compare Josh Fields with Adam Dunn. Adam Dunn has a career OBP of .381 which happens to be Nick Swisher's career high, and Swisher will get on base a lot more than Fields.

 

I'm not comparing them, I'm just giving you an example of someone who SO a lot but also BB's a lot. I don't think you can compare Josh Fields to anyone yet. Not with a 1/2 a season of major leagues under his belt.

[RockRaines]

No 2002. 200 ABs. That would have been plenty of MLB at bats for you to form your opinion. It only took 2 appearances for you to hop on the Lance Broadway bandwagon, and you appear to be high on Ramirez with about 40 spring training at bats.

HAHAHAHA. Maybe you should bring my positive comments on haeger into the discussion. s***, lets bring the first 5 min of a test drive I did with a BMW if we are going to walk down that path.

 

Once again, 2003 when Crede finally played full time, he performed about at what his career has been with a few years that have been outliers. Everyone including scouts expected him to break out, and up to this point, it really hasnt happened consistently Of course thats how baseball is, and the smart money is on Josh improving his numbers, considering he improved every month he played last season, has shown an extremely expedited time line on development for a player that wasn't all that polished when drafted, and has already shown he can equal the production of the current incumbent for less money for for much higher upside. Its a no-brainer.

Edited March 21, 2008 by RockRaines

[Dick Allen]

I'm not comparing them, I'm just giving you an example of someone who SO a lot but also BB's a lot. I don't think you can compare Josh Fields to anyone yet. Not with a 1/2 a season of major leagues under his belt.

But while Fields walks more than Crede, he doesn't walk a lot.

[Dick Allen]

HAHAHAHA. Maybe you should bring my positive comments on haeger into the discussion. s***, lets bring the first 5 min of a test drive I did with a BMW if we are going to walk down that path.

 

Once again, 2003 when Crede finally played full time, he performed about at what his career has been with a few years that have been outliers. Everyone including scouts expected him to break out, and up to this point, it really hasnt happened consistently Of course thats how baseball is, and the smart money is on Josh improving his numbers, considering he improved every month he played last season, has shown an extremely increased timeline on development for a player that wasnt all that polished when drafted, and has already shown he can equal the production of the current incumbent for less money for for much higher upside. Its a no-brainer.

Than what do you base your enthusiasm about Carlos Quentin on? His 170 AB in 2006 and minor league numbers? It can't be his 2007. 200 AB in 2002 with Crede's minor league track record, he was MVP in AA and AAA, and now you think he sucks.

[southsideirish71]

Don't compare Josh Fields with Adam Dunn. Adam Dunn has a career OBP of .381 which happens to be Nick Swisher's career high, and Swisher will get on base a lot more than Fields.

 

So let me get this straight. Fields bad because of low OBP and high strikeouts, for a kid who has less than 500ABs and has 23 home runs playing a position cheap for the next 4 to 5 years. Yet a free swinging low OBP all or nothing player like Uribe is good, because you think he can finally get it all together because its hit walk season. How does one guy have potential after being in the league for years, and then the other guy not so good. Not dont get me wrong I would like to see him get rid of that hitch he has on the high fastball, that should account for him cutting down his strikeouts. But a guy who can hit a curveball and hit lefties would be valuable on this team. Unless you like to witness Cy Lefties with medicore stuff shutting us down all season long.

 

 

[RockRaines]

I'm not comparing them, I'm just giving you an example of someone who SO a lot but also BB's a lot. I don't think you can compare Josh Fields to anyone yet. Not with a 1/2 a season of major leagues under his belt.

Josh will never walk alot, he will prob top out around 50-60. His highest minor league OBP over a full season was .379 and that was 136 k's and 54 bb. It helped he hit .305.